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machado in a Padres uniform in 4 years

We should have a walk out petition here and send it over to Brooks. Vowing to not financially support this team next year. We are the die hards that have supported them when no casual fans would and we just arent going to do it anymore.

I'm not as upset about missing out on Manny. Yes, I wish he would've chosen the White Sox, and yes, I was fine with giving him well over $300 million. However, when I really sit back and look at things, I realize one really important thing: Regardless of if we would've signed him or not, most of the success still relies on the how the prospects from the rebuild turn out. If guys like Eloy, Robert, Cease, Moncada, Kopech, Lopez, Madrigal, and Collins live up to their hype, then the White Sox will be a good team regardless. Now, would I like to have Machado in the middle of that future lineup, of course. But look at Mike Trout in LA. If I recall correctly, he has never made the playoffs, or he has made the playoffs once, and lost in the ALDS. Now that is absolutely no shot at Trout, more of just a statement on how hard it is to win in baseball, and how many really good players you need to have. I know that not all the prospects are going to pan out, but the White Sox have A LOT of options at various positions. Lets say this is the lineup, and their realistic potential: 1. Yoan Moncada (.270 hitter with a .330OPS. Can hit for power and is quick on the base paths). 2. Luis Robert (Otherworldly skill set. True 5-tool player. Can do everything on the field) 3. Jose Abreu (Consistently one of the better 1B in baseball). 4. Eloy Jimenez (Arguably the best prospect in baseball. Huge power. Can hit to all fields). 5. Zack Collins (Huge power. Gets on base). 6. Tim Anderson (Showing improvement each year. Very athletic). 7. Luis Gonzalez (Solid power. Good speed. Gets on base). 8. Jake Burger (Big power potential. Could exclusively be a DH). 9. Nick Madrigal (Not a lot of power, but gets on base a ton for guys at the top of the lineup to knock him in). Lets also not forget a couple of things. This would be assuming the White Sox did not add a single free agent by the 2020/2021 season. And I'm not saying it has to be Arenado/Trout/Betts... Just any veteran free agent. And like I mentioned above, not every prospect pans out, but we still have guys like Basabe, Adolfo, Rutherford, Zavala, Sheets, and Walker. Then we get into pitching. Lets say the rotation is: 1. Kopech (Top 10 prospect before getting hurt. Seems like one of the hardest workers in the game). 2. Cease (One of the best pitching prospects in baseball now. Will probably be Top 10 by the time he gets called up). 3. Rodon (When healthy, the stuff is nasty). 4. Lopez (Finished 2018 very strong. Nasty off-speed stuff) 5. Giolito (Top prospect in 2016. Struggled last year, but you can see that he has nasty off-speed pitches). And again, not all these guys will work out, but we still have prospects like Dunning, Hansen, Lambert, Stephens and Medeiros. And just like the lineup I posted, this is assuming the Sox don't sign one veteran pitcher to add to the staff. Moral of the story, I am bummed that we missed out on Machado just like everyone else, but in baseball, you need more than one guy, no matter who it is. The White Sox have a of depth in the minors, and have a number of guys with ridiculously high ceilings.

"We worked tirelessly, but sometimes it doesn't work out." "I'm proud of our efforts." "We like the guys we have this year." "We will continue to pursue premium talent in free agency." There, now no one needs to waste their time listening.

I made my jersey for 2019... but unfortunately, the whitesox.com checkout page doesn't accept commodities and promissory notes as currency.. which, is how I thought the sox did business.

I am seriously considering not following them myself. I would bet there are a lot of others considering the same. I don’t owe it to anyone to prove my fandom. There is more to life then sports and entertainment and when the entertainment sucks why waste my time, money, and energy on it? I can definitely fill that void with something else that is meaningful and fun.

Sox 2 days ago: We're going to go down swinging. Sox today: We're not going to bid on Harper because we'd probably lose.

My God, Phil Rogers is more intelligent than the White Sox organization.

I think you're seriously underestimating what they just did. And you can fire my post count back at me if you want, I won't even tune in during free preview week this year.

I think I need a break from forum insiders...

It’s not about Machado, it’s about how the White Sox just proved that even in a literally ideal, all-planets-aligned situation, they will not pay market rate for the player they need. Even when the market is depressed. They will take your money while they rebuild, but they will not spend it to contend.

Phil Rogers And Steve Phillips proving they deserve to be running the White Sox more than the people actually running the White Sox. That's..... not great.

Sigh. I'm slowly realizing that I just don't care anymore. I'll tune in every once in awhile for an inning or two, but until my son asks me to go to a game (little dude has ZERO interest in sports), i'll never go to the stadium again.

Shack, you're just torturing yourself pal. The organization lied to you and everyone else - stop believing their BS sales tactic. They aren't in on Harper - he is a Philly. The Sox aren't prepared to do what it takes to sign a big star and they probably never will be with this current group. I have no idea why you're holding out hope. They have given you zero reason too - they've even said through their main mouthpiece that they are OUT.

So the Sox can now be labeled quitters this offseason as well as losers. I'd like to officially nominate #seatatthetable as the official hashtag of the 2019 season.

Call me Mr. Insensitive...I hope JR dies tomorrow and we get bought by an owner who offers Harper 10/326.

You mean, just like the Padres did to the Sox literally yesterday? What a bunch of fucking morons. If you don't get him, you don't get him, but at least make the other teams pay for him. Are they seriously trying to be friendly to other another front office right now? Holy hell are these guys an embarrassment.

I'm not attending a single game this year.

I've had a chance to think about it, too. In talking with some friends about this contract, the discussion of Miguel Cabreras contract came up. Which reminded me of none other than Miguel Cabrera. Another PRIME example of an absolute GOLDEN opportunity for the Sox to acquire a generational talent. And why didn't they? Because they didn't want to take on Dontrelle Willis and/or give up more prospects. We all knew at the time how big of a deal it was to lose to the Tigers there. KW blowing it off was ridiculous then, still is ridiculous now, and is STILL a part of this organizations LOSER mentality when it comes to doing what it takes to get the best players in MLB. Honestly, fuck the White Sox. Cabrera should have been a White Sox, but they blew it because of dumb ass restrictions. Machado should be a White Sox, but they blew it. Harper, maybe shouldn't be a White Sox but now I am arguing that he definitely SHOULD be a White Sox but the organization will not give into Boras demands because of loser restrictions. All of it, the mentality of losers. "All it does is put them in a better position to compete with us". Yeah fucking right KW. It put the Tigers in the position to win several divisional titles, go to a World Series and shit on the Sox year after year while the Sox began their epic foray into being mired in mediocrity. Fuck off.

What you don't realize from your list is why that type of list made Machado or Harper SUCH a perfect acquisition. There's a lot of guys in this organization who are likely to be at least decent, cheap big league players, but even with major talents it's tough to get true stars. Take Rodon - huge talent, top 20 prospect or so when he was drafted, but he's been a mid-rotation pitcher at best, and you've got him in the middle of your rotation. The White Sox will probably get a star or two out of these guys (Eloy). They will almost certainly get a number of decent players out of them, particularly since there is depth. But that does not put you at the level of the Cubs or Astros or Yankees or Red Sox. That does not make a superteam. The beauty of Harper or Machado was - because there is good depth and a number of youngsters around, we have the money to go after a singularly high level performer. A guy hitting free agency at 26 who, if we plug them into the roster, will take over one position and make that position great. Now we've got that position filled with a great player for years, a great player who should not fall off any time soon, and teamed with the star or two (Eloy) that we develop and a number of decent players...we've got something that could be a great team. Once we missed on that, it's possible for us to develop several stars, but that is now entirely on our org's scouting and development. Having that much depth was our way out of having to play the mid-level of the free agent market. It was our way to avoid signing the next Yu Darvish, to avoid signing the next Jay Bruce, to avoid signing the next Melky Cabrera, to avoid signing the next Adam LaRoche. We have the depth where we don't need those guys, we have the depth where guys like Pollock or Keuchel are poor fits for us because we have someone to cover those positions cheaply. We can go out, identify one of the top players in baseball, a guy hitting free agency at age 26, and get something truly unique. But we didn't do it. Now we need this team to be better at player development than they ever have been.

Its not that Machado chose another team- the problem is in the why. Our front office is horrible- and it doesn't need to be restated as it has a million times. But that ineptitude will eventually screw the rebuild because eventually we will need to get a big time free agent. Not spending money when they clearly can spend the money- ticket prices and everything else that goes along with games are going up not down- our payroll remains down. So eventually we will need to go out and get some big time free agents and our FO continues to prove that they are unable to do so. I guess they could still surprise me and somehow get Harper but the odds of that seem pretty small. He wants opt outs- we "don't believe" in opt outs.' I can't wait until JR either sells or dies and at the time hopefully whomever purchases the White Sox doesn't move the team out of Chicago. We just need new ownership and better baseball people running the show. https://www.southsidesox.com/2019/2/19/18232628/why-todays-comments-from-rick-hahn-and-kenny-williams-are-a-big-deal

Phil Rogers being a voice of reason, we are truly in the worst timeline.

Good evening, Rick. While I assume that you will never actually read this, just wanted to say a few things in the event that you or someone who you work with actually reads White Sox MB's. I am a long time White Sox fan. When I saw my first game at Comiskey Park, Bill Veeck owned the team, Harry Carey was the play by play man, and the White Sox had not yet played a game on Sports Vision. I have seen at least one home game every year since then and even a World Series game. I have been with this team through thick and thin. I remember the thin years when Ivan Calderon was our best player. I recall the Frank Thomas era with so may great teams from 1990-2005. I recall the frustrations or the Kenny Williams post-World Series after-glow with all of those band aid fixes to try and keep the team competitive while trading away solid prospects for past their prime veterans or giving away deals that bloated the payroll. You have done an admirable job of cutting the waste and rebuilding the farm system. All of the bad contracts are gone, and their is hope again on the South Side for a bright future. It is an exciting time to be a White Sox fan even if some of these prospects go the way of Scott Ruffcorn or Gordon Beckham which some of them most assuredly will. With how White Sox fans are viewed nationally by ESPN and others, we need something tangible to take away that stench. There is no payroll to speak of for the foreseeable future. Giving out a massive contract is not only not going to break the budget, but it would be criminal if it did not come to pass. You and this organization are not going to have to start handing out massive contracts like the ones the Cubs players are starting to hand out for another 6-7 years if these hyped prospects even pan out, and there are no assurances that they will. Kopech may never get back to his hard throwing self. Moncada may never live up to his hype much like Jurickson Profar never will. You never know how things may play out with prospects. When you have a player that has a track record of elite level production, that player commands a large salary. That is a cost of doing business in MLB. What I know for certain is that the next television contracts will be much larger if there is a marquee product to sell. When you have all-stars and elite players, you have more leverage to ask for more money from television networks. In business, you have to spend money to make money. That is where a large contract for Machado or Harper makes sense. Plus, it helps give credibility to the organization. Think of the extra media revenue. Think of more people in the stands. Think of more jerseys and merchandise being sold. Think of the extra playoff game revenue. Think of excitement from casual fans if they could see a Machado or Harper playing for the White Sox. That casual fan then buys a White Sox hat instead of a Cubs hat and takes his kids to White Sox games instead of Cubs games. That is how you rebuild the fanbase!! Even if you ignore all of this extra revenue coming in that the organization currently does not have, doesn't what I say make sense? If you truly want to get things going here, now is the time to act. The financial flexibility for this move is here. All of the large market teams other than the White Sox or the playoff teams do not have the finances for this move. Jerry is not getting younger. If he wants one last shot at the championship, the time to act is right now. Not in 4-5 years. Is putting all of your eggs in the prospects basket and praying for development and good health really the prudent move? If the price is 8-10 years at over $250 million, that is an investment you have to make. Trust me here. If you build it, we will come. Stop beating around the bush. Make the right offer and get us back! Don't make this move for yourself. Don't make this move for Jerry. Don't make this move for the organization. Make this move for the fans! We want it. We need it. We deserve it.

Haven’t posted in a longgggg time, but am always lurking. I’m as disappointed as everyone else with these turn of events and the front office debacle. These Hitler reaction videos always give me a good laugh and helped me get over the Bears playoff game (search Hitler reacts to Cody Parkey kick). I put one together and tried to cater to the Soxtalk viewer. NSFW and make sure the captions/subtitles are on.

I'll take Harper on the White Sox over a woman anyday.

Don't tweet about a 32 year old journeyman looking "fire" on the mound against air?

THEY ARE OUT ON BRYCE HARPER. Jeeze, when will people accept this as fact.

Blah blah fuckin lawyer talk bullshit. Rick, your record as GM is 419-553 (.431). You've never finished higher than 4th in the absolute worst division in baseball. You should to be fired.

Don't try to convince me you're angrier than I am, Rick, you fuck -- tell me how you're going to make it better.

Rick is really getting on my nerves, I did 180 degrees when it comes to him, I can't stand him talking his cliches.

The second reply is pretty good...but there's something different this time. In 2014 I hated what they were doing and canceled the Extra Innings package, downsized to MLB.tv. After 2016 I canceled MLB.TV. I still went to a few road games each of those years, and tuned in when they were on TV, and still came here. This year? Once the anger dies down I don't know what's going to motivate me to be here, and absolutely will not be going to any MLB games this year. Somehow the fact that this will be the first year I'm not wearing White Sox gear on opening day since I was probably <10 years old...that means something to me. There's no lesser amount of caring I can do.

Are you kidding? Dude I'm at a ZERO as far as interest and my account here is 14 years old. I haven't been lower than probably a 5 (out of 10) any time in my adult life. The years I was excited as an adult and had the means to go to spring training -- post Jose signing and post Sale trade with Moncada and Kopech in camp -- I went and spent hundreds on tickets, lodging, food, etc. Furthermore I've had MLB.tv for the last 12 years. 12 years! Since I was in college! That's done. I'm at a ZERO. I just booked my annual spring trip and it was 50/50 on if I was going to SoCal or spring training. Easy choice man, easy choice. I'll be in San Diego this march, not Tempe. Futhermore I have bought behind home plate tickets every year the Sox are here in Seattle since I moved here. That's done. I spent money seeing them in NYC and Baltimore when I was living in NYC. I've spent plenty of fucking money on them. IM DONE.

Hold your management to a higher standard or they will take you for granted

The meatball takes on Twitter make me laugh. A monkey could've turned the farm system from the bottom to the top in one year with Sale/Q/Eaton to jumpstart the rebuild, and if they're not going to spend now, when will they ever? Machado would not have "handcuffed" them at all.

Not really a funny joke.

We did wait and we saw what happened yesterday. We waited 2 months and we saw the end result of their #1 target, a guy who was a better fit for the organization's needs than Harper.

It's Ron. No one really takes him seriously anyway.

There are a TON of great comments on this thread, both on the positive side and the negative side. The rebuild is not doomed because they didn't sign Machado. It is indeed possible that the Sox take over this division and win fans back in the coming years. That said, Machado would have gone a long, long way towards helping this rebuild reach it's endgame. Machado insulates the organization from the absolute need to strike a Cub-level of success with prospects and hit on all of our non 1B infielders. TA, improved his defense yes... but we still need him to develop into a consistent offensive threat. This is not a given for TA. Moncada, sure he could explode next year. I still feel really good about Yoan personally, but... it is not a given. Madrigal, super great prospect despite his shortcomings that many here love to talk about... not a given. Hell, even Machado isn't a given, but I think he has proven that you could reasonably expect several years of quality MLB level play before the eventual decline. Top of the range? Hall of fame caliber. Now, you absolutely need to hit on TA, Yoan and Madrigal. You absolutely need TA to hone his offensive skills. You need Moncada to explode. You need Madrigal to pan out. There's no insulation, there's no "well, if TA busts but Yoan and Madrigal hit, then at least we have Machado and that makes up our IF". Hahn talks so much about critical mass. He has that possibility in the OF, sure. The fact that we are loaded with OF prospects is why Machado makes so much more sense than Harper. How in the actual fuck can you expect a critical mass of talent to take over and consistently win in this situation with the IF? Even if all 3 of our IF guys hit, what if they get injured? Then you have guys like Yolmer and Rondon... acceptable 4th IF guys taking a full time role. Beyond those guys, you are hoping Jake Burger can hit like a stud and stick at 3B.... questionable. After that, you have wildcards like Lenyn Sosa and Luis Curbelo and that is... about it for MIF prospects. Sure, it is within the realm of possibility that one of them explodes as a prospect.. but it is honestly somewhat bleak looking right now. Signing Machado was essential to this rebuild. It was essential to Rick Hahn's critical mass master plan. No, it is not doomed now, but to go ahead and miss an absolutely golden, shining opportunity to add an elite MLB player, in his prime, at a reasonable price with the only real downside being the last few years of his deal, which is when our window should be closing anyway, is completely absurd. It is, frankly, unacceptable. Look around you. This is a group of absolute die-hard Sox fans. Thick and thin. Everyone is mailing it in. As if the Sox weren't already under a lot of pressure to reignite this fanbase, it somehow got worse today. Well, here's the facts: You aren't winning back any casual fans today, and diehard fans are losing their shit. They all understand the opportunity that was just missed. Overall, it was a smart idea to sign Machado, given the circumstances. I won't rehash them because they've been said so well already. The bottom line is this, can you expect another elite MIF to be available as an FA, in their prime, without any of the "big boys" bidding? If so, can you expect the Sox to actually win that player? Can you expect to win ANY player if the Sox will never give an opt-out in a contract because they're unwilling to budge off of a ridiculous perception of how MLB FA "should be"? Are the Sox going to be the pioneers who usher in the MLB FA Age of Reason? Every other team will say "Wow, look at how smart the White Sox are for showing us the way."? LMFAO. Fuck all of that. Let me preface this by saying I give it about a 5% of happening, but the only way to save this situation is to say fuck it and sign Harper. Sure, you'd rather add an IF to get to IF critical mass rather than another OF... but he is still a generational talent. Adding him eases the pain. Adding him brings the diehards back from the ledge AND piques the casual fan. This is the price the Sox are going to have to pay for fucking around with Machado and getting too cute with his contract. Now, you have to basically suck Scott Boras dick and give him a blank check. Now that I think about it, I amend my 5% chance to .1%. No opt outs, no 325+ over 10 years, no Harper. I'm with everyone here in the complete frustration with the franchise. Baseball is a wonderful game, it will be fun to follow some of the young guys. I can't give any time to other teams, I don't have more free time, so I won't just abandon Sox fandom. That's just dumb anyway. But, the Sox needed to earn my free time, and Machado would have gone a long way for me, personally. I'd have been in on some sort of ticket plan and allotting time to go to the park and watch this team. This missed opportunity, at an epic level, completely kills that desire in me. I'll just pick up tickets on Stubhub for a few dollars if I feel like watching them live. Or, more likely, just be content watching highlights and saving money AND time. Cheers, everyone. I hope your drinks are tasting okay tonight.

God bless you optimists. I was once like you.

Agents of prime free agents vs Sox FO

I wish I was coming back here for the first time in years for different news. Not going after Harper at all is just pathetic, and no reason really provided.

Just posted in other thread, but seems like Padres didn’t think they were getting him the night before. Holy freaking crap did the Sox blow this.

For many teams adding a 30 mill player makes it more difficult to succeed. For this iteration of the white sox, it made it a lot easier. But really, if I'm being kind, the easiest way for the white sox to have succeeded would to have a good front office. This is a bad front office, so everything is harder.

Time for the Sox to go sign some turds and proclaim they did the best they could.

I'm falling for this enough to keep checking this thread. Shame on me.

That Nightengale article says that they were told the bidding from the Padres was at $280 days ago and they said they were comfortable at $250. Then on Monday he called around and said they would sign at $300, the White Sox said "We're comfortable at $250" and he signed for $300. I can't remember how many times I said that the White Sox needed to wait until Machado's side gave a reasonable offer that they'd say yes to, and at that point accept the offer. That happened specifically Monday. They turned it down cold and are now making excuses. They gave a reasonable offer that they would sign and the White Sox's front office said no.

They. Had. A. Fucking. Empty. Locker. Next. To. His. Best. Fucking. Friend.