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Trying to use reason and logic to understand the Sox front office is a waste of time. They are clearly outmatched when it comes to free agency and trades. The Padres have both of the cornerstones that should be in Sox uniforms. Hahn should be embarrassed and go into hiding.

Jon Jay is better than Adam Jones, in my opinion

1. You are creatively ignoring that Moncada was already in the Majors before he even reached the Sox, and that no team in baseball would have sent him back down 2 levels. 2. K-rates and size of ballpark have zero correlation. 3. An .823 OPS at AAA while playing 4.5 years younger than league average is far above "middling". 4. A player does not constitute a sample, and you also creatively ignore the fact that they have been conservative on most of the farm. 5. Is the stroke survivor line really necessary? It makes you sound like a meathead, which doesn't really help your case.

Holy fucking shit this thread. I'm not easily offended but I'm an atheist that has multiple gay friends. To me, the mere suggestion that a higher being created us at all makes me chuckle but still believing that being a homosexual is some sort of choice is absolutely absurd. It's like being on the other side of the vaccine "debate". For some things, there just isn't another side to argue.

Here's the deal: Now that the Sox can't get Machado, they need to use that money to get other quality free agents or else they risk losing much of their fan base. However, they don't seem interested in doing anything to improve the team free agent wise. The kicker is that Hahn, JR, and KW all give the impression that they are perfectly satisfied with the team as it is right now and don't see the need to do anything constructive.

Well duh. Thanks for the warning who the fuck doesn't struggle at some point. Hey y'all I warned ya the sun would come out eventually.

Last spring: Adam Engle hit 380 with an 1100 OPS Matt Davidson hit 330 with a 1000 OPS Skole hit 311 with a 950 OPS Chris Volstad threw 14 innings and gave up 0 runs Bruce Rondon threw 5 innings and walked 1 guy Giolito threw 17 innings with a 2 ERA and 17ks. You get where this is going

But look at it from a fan standpoint. The Astros had 3---100 loss seasons and had a below .500 record for 6 straight years before they started winning again. Last year was the 6th straight year the Sox had a record below .500. So if 2021 is the goal, we will go at least 2 more years than the Astros did. Cubs had 5 years below .500 until they turned it around. So if we are in year 3 of rebuild, it only means our management was too slow to realize they needed to rebuild.

If the contracts were for one year, I think that would make sense. But a tremendous portion of what teams are buying in this case is specifically the mid and late twenties seasons that aren’t available normally. Pujols and Cabrera were are arguably the best hitters in the game when they signed, but they were selling years of decline. And their value isn’t as much higher as it seems (than Machado and Harper) becaus eof the defensive difference. Also: I think if you focus on the fact that Machado/Harper signed the largest TOTAL guaranteees inbistory, but didn’t really come close to the highest AAV currently in the game, it fits with your mindset a bit more.

This is so dumb.... Rendon isn't a better hitter than Machado JD Martinez is a DH... Soto is currently not a better hitter than Machado Bryant is not a better hitter than Machado Votto is 96 and even so is still not a better hitter than Machado. Lindor is not a better hitter than Machado.. Though I'll say Lindor, Machado and Breg are close.. Anyways.. wtf are you smoking

I was talking strictly hitting. Here are ten hitters better than Machado and Harper and there may even be more: 1)Trout 2)Ramirez 3)Bregman 4)Betts 5)Rendon 6)JD Martinez 7)Altuve 8)Soto 8)Bryant 9)Lindor 10)Votto

Beautiful response to an ignorant post.

Machado and Harper arent even top ten hitters in the league, yet they want the most money ever. Im so glad the Sox didnt sign them. Look at players like Pujols and Cabrera, they declined alot in their late contract years, and Pujols and Cabrera are future hall of famers.

My last post on this topic, but it's becoming apparent you're missing the point and using your stats incorrectly. To summarize what you said: 1) High pitches are easier to elevate - true, but this means nothing in isolation, easier to elevate does not suggest better results 2) High fastballs are easier to square up - false Since you're a statistical person, I think you'd also see the fallacy of using the numbers you pointed to here: https://community.fangraphs.com/effect-of-pitch-selection-on-launch-angle-and-exit-velocity/ The up and in (good) pitches are one of the worst pitches for hitters to hit (as suggested by the EV you linked to). The up and away (mistake) pitches produced the best results (by measurement of EV and LA). But let's also consider that for those mistake pitches go a long way and has much higher exit velocity, henced average EV are skewed, but that doesn't mean they are happening more frequently (because the results are more favorable for the pitcher) compared to a low pitch. If you want to have a good leg to stand on, use batting average, wOBA, or xwOBA that weights each event the same. So to have a blanket statement that high fastballs are easier to hit (as Parkman and Dick Allen were debating you on had you read their posts carefully) or easier to square up, you're stats falls short of proving your point by a 90 degree launch angle.

You can't even make contact on a low pitch without dropping the head of the bat. If hitter actually had a "level swing" like you claim the only place anyone would make contact is on the sweet spot. Every ball contacted by every hitter below the middle of the strike zone is an uppercut of some sort. The only difference is by how much. Baseball is a physics project for me. You're going off of basebally jargon. Every swing is different based on pitch location. It is part of what makes baseball a hard game.

Nah, this isn't an "to each their own" thing. People aren't allowed to hide behind god to try and mask their bigotry.

It’s the kind that sucks.

Cease dunning madrigal eloy kopech robert collins hansen Ruthetford Basabe/Micker/González (pick your favorite) Obviously no order to that...but feel good about 5 of them being at least above average players for the White Sox in 2021? Make a good enough core to make the Sox at least perennially in the playoffs?

I think you're a little out of date here again. Getz has slowed things down quite noticeably. Since he's taken over I haven't felt like any prospect has been rushed, which is different than before when rushing was what they did. The only player in the Getz era where I felt he was moved up too quickly is this talk of Collins in AAA - I think he's not ready. But literally that's it, and even in that case there are plenty of people who think AAA makes sense.

That about covers it. I think SSS is done, whatever remains will just be a corpse, anybody halfway good enough to dig it out doesn't want to work with Vox.

You know, I don't really understand the Sox letting Avi go when he's still not blocking anybody. The way things turned out they coulda given him his 5-10 million for this year and let him hit cause a.) the front office has money to burn and b.) the replacements blow chunks. Not to beat a dead horse, but John Jay may wind up our worst regular since Erstad (not hyperbole I don't think). I do think Jay will be booed this season and that's sad because i'm sure he's probably a nice guy, etc. But cmon. It's insulting to let that guy have 450 at bats when Avi baby coulda had them. Fans know Avi and give him another year to see if he can repeat 2 years ago. Even if he sucked Sox again had money to burn. Pay Avi, not Jay and Alonso and McCann.

This is like Gregory Infante asking for a better bullpen.

Right in line with the rest of the off-season lol

Maybe you should go back to LA LA LAND where we own the AL Central for 5-7 years...it’s like we are being forced to join up with Jim Jones in Guyana despite all evidence to the contrary, Jim Jones Has No Clothes. I get that it’s a lot more fun to be optimistic...and this might be the only time left before the games really count, but if they really cared about the fans more than the bottom line and “risk mitigation,” they could have solved this problem by signing Machado or Harper.

Wow not only a soothsayer but a mental health specialists of the masses. We are lucky to have you.

Those people were dumb. If your analysis is 'He looked good/bad in Spring' it needs to be thrown out.

The fact there haven’t been serious calls for Hahn to be fired and put into the worst GM of all time Hall of Shame illustrates how little the fan base cares anymore.

That's what happens with inept management.

I can just imagine the counterargument...Royals and Pirates and even the Braves in 80’s we’re rebuilding for multiple decades before achieving success.

I warned everyone this was coming.......If Eloy hits .240/.300/.725 this yr will everyone be as willing to throw Eloy under the bus as they've done with Moncada? I don't trust any hitter that has spent a significant amount of time in the Sox org to do anything immediately when called up.

The Cubs also pretty much hit on all their top prospect more or less. That is not a realistic expectation for us.

Some bullpen spots are up for grabs. Banuelos is trying to win the first crack at the 5th starter’s spot. On the positional side, mostly just a bench spot or two are open with Leury, Rondon, Delmonico, & Guyer in the mix. Overall, pretty limited competition.

Where did I say it's easier to square one up? And no, you have shown me nothing to refute the two points I've made in this thread. Easier to elevate a high pitch - fact. High pitches have higher EV - fact.

Another good read here: https://www.baseballprospectus.com/news/article/39080/rubbing-mud-astroification-gerrit-cole/ TL;DR - High fastball and healthy dosage of curveball is Astro's bread and butter. It's no surprise a team like them, Indians, Cubs, Red Sox and Dodgers are at the forefront of this revolution It's also not surprising that Cole increased the spin rate of his fastball significantly (leading to rising action) and usage of his curveball when he got to the Astros and became one of the best pitchers in baseball.

Pal, I dont know what to tell you. Launch angles on low balls are significantly lower than those on high pitches. It's basic physics. That's why sinker ballers who get a lot of grounders don't throw pitches up in the zone. You are greatly misunderstanding the terminology of dropping the barrel. If your bat is coming to the ball with the barrel pointing nearly 45 degrees towards the ground, you're not going to have much success. The way you are describing dropping the barrel would coincide with dropping ones back shoulder which no hitter wants.

It baffles me how anyone would think low balls have a higher launch angle than high balls. Here's an article stating how that is wrong. https://community.fangraphs.com/effect-of-pitch-selection-on-launch-angle-and-exit-velocity/ It is basic math - the higher the pitch the higher the exit angle. Low balls are harder to lift.

No. Physics doesn't say this is wrong. My goodness. And no, low pitches are not easier to square up. A miss on a high pitch will lead to a pop up - a miss on a low pitch will lead to a grounder. Higher pitches induce more fly balls and pop ups. I played college baseball.

But it isn't easier to hit. Now with launch angles and upper cuts, pitching up is the way to go on a lot of hitters, except of course if up is hanging breaking balls.

Except there’s probably at least 15-25% of the population who would wholeheartedly agree with the sentiments expressed...and won’t change until it affects their families or loved ones firsthand (see Dick Cheney.)

Speaking of anti vaxxers they're idiots. The only reason that there are more kids on the autism spectrum now is because of the investigation into Hans Asperger's work. I, as a person on the spectrum, prefer to not be associated with Asperger because of WHY he did the work more than anything else. Roughly 2% of the world population is on the spectrum and that is that. The reason autism diagnoses have increased is because of expanded knowledge that severe autism isn't the only type of autism. I personally like how they do it now, where they classify it by AS-1/2/3 where the 1 is some support and 3 is major support. It is independent of IQ(which Asperger's wasn't) and all about autism symptoms/executive functioning. Bottom line, anti vaxxers are putting people's lives at risk because they don't have the balls to do the research or they're too dumb to do so.

The White Sox were able to trade Sale,Q, and Eaton for what should have been king ransom hauls of prospects. To think they should be on the same timetable as a normal rebuild is just hoping against hope. It's time some of these prospects actually showed why they were considered top notched guys in the major leagues.

Happy to oblige. There's going to be some really ugly April/May/September numbers this year, especially pre-Jimenez on weekday/weeknight games or bad weather.

Hahn paid $4 million for Jon Jay and Adam Jones gets $3 million. Man, Hahn had an awful offseason.

Thank goodness. It shows you how bad the MLBPA is when they choose a 33 year old outfielder as their poster child instead of the 26 year old Cy Young winner making $500k.

Horrible. My favorite pitcher growing up. Loved the fact he came to the Sox. My heart goes out to the Seaver family.

I can't believe how many people are actively tuning in to complain about spring training games and results. At least the game threads are in mid season form.

Disappointing off-season in the sense that we added so many freaking mediocre guys. We had enough of those guys already.

Yoan is having the same issues at-bat this year that he had last year. I hate to say he's a bust, but he is trending that direction.

Let me find my surprised face