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Lol. Whoosh

The Sox have 1/2 a bullpen: Colome, Marshall, Bummer, Fry. I like all of those guys. But none are great. The rest of the bullpen is not major league quality; yes 1 or 2 may improve, but really bad right now. That's 4 short. The starting staff: Giolito is 1. Cease is a "probably" - I'll rate him as a .75. I still think Lopez is iffy, but at worst a cinch for the pen. So I'll give him .5 for the starter and .5 for the pen. Rodon is .5 at best. Sum total, they have 2.75 starters and 4.5 relievers. That's 2.25 starters short and 3.5 relievers short. Add 5 pitchers for depth and you need 10.75 more pitchers. You cannot go in there with 5 and 8 and think you can contend. Injuries happen and performance below expectations happen. So who do they have? Kopech, Dunning all good possibilities...who else? They are short on pitchers and a TOR starter is the least of the problems. Sox have a costly history on being short pitching - they probably had top 3 overall talent in the majors from 2001-2004 and they were always a pitcher or 3 short. I'm a 3 year guy; I think a competent FO can rebuild in 3 years. And this team had a jumpstart with Sale et al to trade. Well this is year 3, which means contend in year 4. But they simply aren't ready. If they do it now, they'll look like the 2015 White Sox. They need to build for another year. And that's why I hated taking a pass on this trading season.

With you here Ron. It took a while for most of us to come around, but he's done. We know your Abreu threads up until this season were a schtick. We're all not friends here unless we bust each other's balls.

Im thinking Eloy does something good here.

How do we organize a bunting intervention for Ricky?

He gave up three singles on groundballs, two of which should have been fielded.

Oh, and it was an automatic out in a big spot. Pitchers batting will always be stupid.

Next year will be the 15th year since the team won the WS, and they’ve only returned to the postseason ONCE since then, playing in all of just four games, and with only ONE WIN to show for it. That last and only post ‘05 playoff occurrence happened way back when George W. Bush was wrapping up his second term in office. 2008. The team we know, love, and follow hasn’t been to the playoffs in 11 freaking years (and counting). 11 years, and this in a set-up that has not one but two wild card opportunities! 4th longest playoff drought in all of baseball (and counting). How much more “rebuilding” does this team need to do? They’ve gotten all of the blue chip prospects they’re going to get via trade. They’ll get another shot at adding a valuable piece in the draft next year. But it would seem now is the time to shift gears and get out of this revolting “tank” mode that inflicts hideously played baseball on our fan base and onto a strategy that genuinely and purposefully tries to bring sustainable winning baseball to the South Side. This means acquiring some “premium talent” on the open market, like other successful franchises do. Premium F*cking Talent. No excuses. They have all of the financial flexibility and wherewithal to do so. So do it! 2020 should be a year focused on competing for the postseason once again, particularly for this team that plays in the weakest division in all of baseball.

Well Josh Nelson is just reacting to what the Sox are leading him to think. You don't even have to have a negative attitude . All you have to do is see the road signs . I especially like the meeting with how the Astro's signed Gerrit Cole ,that was enlightening and how the Astros have 75 high speed cameras throughout their system when some teams are getting around to just having one. He's right in the sense that the Sox haven't picked a lane. Playing service time games with Robert and Madrigal makes me think they really don't want to contend next year so why should anyone think they will make a splash in Free Agency besides the low payroll ? They aren't serious about signing intl. talent, they won't have an extra team for that talent , they play service time games, they won't fully do what they have to do in scouting and development. Do things the right way to PROVE you want to win otherwise quit pretending you want to win by giving the car a crap engine but expecting it not to break down. Get in the fast lane or get off the highway.

You make very good points about how confusing it is to get a read on what exactly the Sox are doing or going to do. Do they contend in 2020 ? Some say yes they will sign FA's and go for it. However , then why hold Robert and Madrigal down? Why not get them up and acclimated for next year ? If held down how many combined games do they miss next year ? 40 ? 50 ? and then brought up to then get acclimated ? Does that sound like a team that wants to win next year ?

You, legitimately, have no idea what you’re talking about. It wasn’t about trying to extract more future value in trade for Colome. It was about not acquiring broken prospects or AAAA players for a guy who could really help this pen next season. This deadline was without a doubt a buyers market. There were a couple deals that seemed to favor the seller, but generally those were moves that had guys with a lot of cheap control moving. Colome is obviously not that. Hahn has very little to trade. A tad disappointed we didn’t see Nova/Jay/Castillo jettisoned our of town, but the first 2 actually serve some purpose.

If you squint a bit you can see the makings of a decent bullpen. They have two darn good lefties in Bummer and Fry. Colome is here for now, they need to find some more RH arms out of the pen. The SP isn't as dire as you think either. They don't necessarily need a Cole/Strasburg type, but it would be nice if they could land one. I keep coming back to Bumgarner. He shouldn't be nearly as expensive and he's a good bet to be #3 quality for his entire contract. They're not 10 pitchers short. Lopez still has upside, he can be a #4-5, Giolito and Cease have TOR stuff, how much they'll put it together remains to be seen. Kopech is coming back in March, idk wtf they're doing with Rodon.

Watch it, you're next

Reported

That's real smart. Eliminate yourself from drafting a hall of famer like Frank Thomas. Probably the best Sox draft pick ever.

Caulfield what is with the obsession with the Brewers? You just started a thread about their pitching staff in PHT.

B.S. I'm not trolling anybody. I'm giving opinions, You might hate my political opinions as well if we were allowed to post them any more. Some people on this board will never accept the fact there are people with DIFFERERING OPINIONS. Guess what. I love Jose had a friend in town today from Chicago and he wasn;'t shocked by any of my Sox points. And he said everybody he knows likes Abreu. He is a HUGE Sox fan BTW.

Can you calculate his WAR using that new formula you came up with? His vWAR is probably around 25, especially when you factor in his all-star appearance this year. That would surely change my opinion of him.

No, his mom probably would have been very angry with him.

And he’s going to get six from SOMEONE. Probably multiple teams.

Yup, one high-end starter and one high-end RH reliever is what we need plus a depth starter or swing-man. After that, we’ll rely on some of the young arms such Hamilton, Schryver, Ruiz, Fulmer, etc. to step up and/or serve as bullpen depth. Wouldn’t be surprised if they add a few veteran arms for Charlotte’s pen, but saying we’re 10 short on arms is fucking ridiculous.

Sox finish the week with the 8th slot. 4 with the Tigers, 3 with the A’s, who will be spending an entire week in Chicago starting late tonight. 5-2 this coming week wouldn’t surprise me.

Dude, those guys don't take up .5 of a roster spot so you're going about it horribly. They're going to have 12 or 13 pitchers. You have 5 relievers and 4starters already. Herrera also takes up a spot(unfortunately) so really you have the following in the rotation next year: Giolito Cease Kopech Lopez And the following in the bullpen: Colome Bummer Fry Herrera Marshall (Maybe Fulmer) That's 9 pitchers. They only have 3-4 spots they have to fill.

How about starting Buntaholics Anonymous. "Hi, my name is Ricky and I'm a buntaholic. I just can't help myself anymore. I constantly call for bunt, bunt, bunt. Under any and all circumstances. Please help me."

Not being able to catch up to fastball and no plate discipline, worse then it's ever been

I know you all think I hate Abreu, but it is sad seeing him unable to catch up to 91 mph gas anymore. He was a fun hitter in his prime.

Next year. I truly believe he will make Yoan like jump

.... How do you think averages work?

Bunting needs to be the “b” word that is censored on here

Lol...or I should have just let the source speak for himself.

First off, you are a great poster. Always enjoy reading your thoughts and insights relating to our Sox. Much appreciated! Second, as it relates to all of the “modernization” improvements you referred to, shouldn’t those have been “in scope”, if you will, of the overall “rebuilding” project objectives, to enhance/implement such improvements? If Hahn, at his age, is worth anything, shouldn’t the advances as you point out that a team like the Astros made when they “rebuilt”, shouldn’t Rick had been pushing and advocating for, and insisting on, similar advances? If you have to go the route of a multi-year rebuilding effort, surely it cannot just be trading your young, cost-controlled assets for a bevy of prospects and simply waiting for those players to advance to the Majors. Thats the piece of the puzzle I’ve found most interesting since Ye Olde Rebuild began - did they actually address the true root causes in scouting and player development that caused the need for the rebuild in the first place?

The Leury-Madrigal table-setter show will be fun to watch in 2020.

Spin stat has certainly become a major issue. Sometimes it’s difficult to understand just how important it is

National league baseball at its finest

We demand universal DH

Robert hasn't forced the team's hand yet. He must learn to play a great CF while in yoga positioning.

Dude we've been on the same page for 2 months now. Not calling up Robert and Madrigal at the start of the next homestand is really stupid. Playing service time games with them is robbing Peter to pay Paul. They're past that point in the rebuild now. If things were still going poorly and Moncada/Giolito/Anderson had not improved since last year, I'd get it. Those three took a huge step forward and they, along with Eloy are the current "core 4" and those guys need to be maximized while they're here.

You're killing me with all these damn edits today lol. I know you've spoken unkindly about Madigral in the past. When I called him a high contact singles hitter, that absolutely wasn't meant in a negative way. So don't be lumping me in with your former negative feelings on him. I think there's a positive about a player like that being on your team. I think he's potentially the #1 or #2 hitter in our lineup for the next 10+ years. Especially since his walk-rate has gone up quite a bit since he left college. But in the end, 82 of his 110 hits have been singles. I'm not looking it up, but that seems like a pretty high % of singles to me. And him being a high contact hitter is obviously true. I think it's already been stated that he has the lowest strikeout % in all of professional baseball right now. For our future lineup, I don't want 7 guys swinging for the fences every at-bat, kinda like the Cubs have right now. They did win a World Series, but they have some serious flaws in their lineup construction right now. And it wouldn't completely shock me if 3 years from now we consider Nick Madigral the best player on our White Sox.

All I know is we had a record number of "insiders" here last winter and were told by a couple that not only would the money be spent on one of Harper Machado, but don't be too surprised if they signed both. They ultimately signed for right at if not below projections and the Sox could not afford either. Their words not mine. To think they will be able to land a gut like Cole when teams like the Yankees won't be half assing their offers and have shown an ability to put together a team that can contend for years, is foolish. The money might be spent, but it won't be as much money as you think, and it won't be spent on the top of the line guys. It is one reason when they decided to fully rebuild, that rebuild should have included most of the baseball ops people.

Ron, I sincerely doubt threatening half the board is going to end up with the result you want...or that admins/moderators have the time and energy to sort it all out on a weekend. Besides, If half the board was actually suspended, wouldn’t the whole point of the board...which is interacting with other Sox fans...be null and void? It’s like bullying in middle or high school...if victims don’t care of it themselves and go to their parents or principal, it just brings further wrath down upon themselves, which is only exacerbated by this social media echo chamber age we live in.

Per Sox Machine, Charlotte hitting coach Frank Menechino: “Nothing,” said Knights hitting coach Frank Menechino when asked what Robert has improved. “He hasn’t improved nor gotten better, he’s been the same since he’s got here. And that’s pretty good, right? How much is he going to improve with 200 at-bats in Triple A? I don’t know.” Pretty bold split from the party line

Jose Rodriguez BOMB #7.

Thanks, man. Yeah, I'm not too worried about Beard. He's a fourth round pick, so whatever. Looking at the 2009 4th rounders, the second best player by bWAR is Ryan Goins. So if we get an MLBer out of it at all, terrific! Burger is the one I'm more worried about out. He'll be at Kanny next year as an A-baller as a 24 year old with two missed years of development. That was a failure.

I agree with you all about Renteria. The two things he most controls, his decisions and the team's fundamentals - are both failing horribly. There's no basis for him to continue as manager of the White Sox. He doesn't deserve to keep his job.

I watched Fulmer busting butt down the line hustling his butt off trying to beat it out and I was impressed with him. I thought that's what sports is all about. Great effort. This is even though financially it makes no sense for him to hustle and possibly (probably since he did) get hurt and according to many fans who want to lose and continue tanking certainly makes no sense trying to beat it out in a game we were so close to losing and helping our draft position. In conclusion I applaud Fulmer for caring when nobody would have blamed him for loafing down the basepaths and staying healthy for a team going nowhere. His loafing could have been explained away that he's not used to running the basepaths and had trouble getting out of the box, etc. Kudos to Fulmer for trying to win when so many want the tank to cause L after L. TWTW really shows in a segment like that.

Should I get on the Blaze Jordan bandwagon now or later?...

I could see him hitting the clubs in Atlanta tonight, followed by an off day tomorrow.

George Bell sucked but that’s neither here nor there....Before the Q trade, the last trade of consequence between the teams was Garland for Karchner. I can’t believe so many people think the rebuild was some sort of scheme to lower payroll and they will never sign anyone ever again.... they outsmarted themselves and got too cute with Machado and lost out on him. Get over it. Sox fans can be such a group of whiners.