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Fox was a second baseman. He spent all but one of his sox seasons playing next to Hall of Famers Luke Appling and Luis Aparicio. So yeah.

Oh wait, so since a 3b is included do we get to include Ventura? he alone dropped 5.3 rWAR as a 23 year old, Ozzie Guillen and Ventura combined for 7.4 rWAR that year. Does a 3b to a 1b count as a double play combination since 3b and SS is this one? Because I've got a good 3b and 1b combination from those years.

Fox and Aparicio were definitely the best combo in my lifetime.

I want him up next year as well...just not as primary catcher.

At this point, I have to assume he has pictures of Ricky participating in BDSM at Felipe Vazquez' house. It surely has nothing to do with his .656 OPS over 2,400 plate appearances.

yea they're good and all but what did Machado and Tatis Jr put up in WAR this year, eh?????

The point of a rebuild is to amass as much young talent as possible. Later trading some of that talent is pretty common place. Theres absolutely nothing wrong with the Sox looking to trade prospects for a piece that will get us over the top sooner rather than later. Yoan TA Kopech Gio Robert Eloy Cease Madrigal Vaughn Thats the young (hopefully all) elite talent we tanked for. That’s a great core...now the franchise should be using any and all resources to add as much good and proven talent around them as possible. Jerry opening his wallet in free agency is obviously a huge part of that, but it doesn’t have to be, and nor should it be the only way we add talent.

We need OBP and dingers.

Fox and Carrasqeul 1954 - 10.4 combined 1955 - 8.6 Fox and Aparicio 1957 - 11.0 1959 - 9.3 So, no. EDIT: FYI, those are bWAR. Using fWAR, here's some data points 1954 - 10.0 1955 - 7.9 1957 - 9.8 1959 - 8.8 1960 - 9.0

Maybe they are all taking NUGENIX? Rob Manfred likes it and she will too

The one thing that really establishes that there has almost certainly been a change in the ball itself is AAA. In one year, they went from the AA ball to the major league ball, and nearly doubled the number of home runs in the international league and the pacific coast league. They had their full season 2018 home run totals by the all star break. It is simply inconceivable that the only effect is the players driving this; if there were a big load of people at AA last year who were on steroids, the stats wouldn't have shifted so abruptly at the start of this season as guys get called up to AAA during the year if they're performing well. In that case, it is literally an on off switch - change the ball and the HR rate responds immediately. Other factors can certainly be in play. There could be a new PED that we don't know about yet. Launch angles are affecting things. But none of that could switch the performance in AAA so rapidly.

I keep reading about the ball being juiced, beat writers talk about it, National writers talk about it, players talk about it. Last time they blamed the equipment, MLB went before Congress shortly afterwards and Roger Clemens couldn't drink enough water, McGuire looked like he wanted to cry, Rafael Palmeiro shook his finger at everyone, and Sammy Sosa forgot how to speak English. just curious what you guys think about the current explosion of homeruns this season

He’s showing signs of settling in. He has a 1.171 OPS over his last 4 games. Trending in the right direction.

Well just think about how much you've narrowed it down. 1 franchise, 30 years. How many times during any 30 year period does even a really good franchise bring up 2 infielders within a few years?

Easy big fella. Collins still has a lot to prove and until he does McCann or someone else will be the starting catcher.

This is why Collins needs to be in the lineup every day until the end of the season.

Now this is where I wish someone besides you was saying this since everything is a disaster to you in game threads.

All I see is blonde, brunette, red head....

Year Age Tm Lg G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS OPS+ Awards 1947 19 PHA AL 7 3 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 .000 .250 .000 .250 ‑27 1948 20 PHA AL 3 13 0 2 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 0 .154 .214 .154 .368 ‑2 1949 21 PHA AL 88 247 42 63 6 2 0 21 2 2 32 9 .255 .354 .296 .650 75 1950 22 CHW AL 130 457 45 113 12 7 0 30 4 3 35 17 .247 .304 .304 .608 58 1951 23 CHW AL 147 604 93 189 32 12 4 55 9 12 43 11 .313 .372 .425 .798 117 AS,MVP‑17 1952 24 CHW AL 152 648 76 192 25 10 0 39 5 5 34 14 .296 .334 .366 .700 94 AS,MVP‑7 1953 25 CHW AL 154 624 92 178 31 8 3 72 4 5 49 18 .285 .344 .375 .719 92 AS 1954 26 CHW AL 155 631 111 201 24 8 2 47 16 9 51 12 .319 .372 .391 .763 107 AS,MVP‑9 1955 27 CHW AL 154 636 100 198 28 7 6 59 7 9 38 15 .311 .364 .406 .770 106 AS,MVP‑7 1956 28 CHW AL 154 649 109 192 20 10 4 52 8 4 44 14 .296 .347 .376 .723 91 AS,MVP‑14 1957 29 CHW AL 155 619 110 196 27 8 6 61 5 6 75 13 .317 .403 .415 .818 124 AS,MVP‑4,GG 1958 30 CHW AL 155 623 82 187 21 6 0 49 5 6 47 11 .300 .357 .353 .710 98 AS,MVP‑8 1959 31 CHW AL 156 624 84 191 34 6 2 70 5 6 71 13 .306 .380 .389 .770 113 AS,AS,MVP‑1,GG 1960 32 CHW AL 150 605 85 175 24 10 2 59 2 4 50 13 .289 .351 .372 .723 96 AS,AS,MVP‑18,GG 1961 33 CHW AL 159 606 67 152 11 5 2 51 2 3 59 12 .251 .323 .295 .618 69 AS,AS 1962 34 CHW AL 157 621 79 166 27 7 2 54 1 2 38 12 .267 .314 .343 .657 77 1963 35 CHW AL 137 539 54 140 19 0 2 42 0 2 24 17 .260 .299 .306 .605 72 AS,MVP‑26 1964 36 HOU NL 133 442 45 117 12 6 0 28 0 2 27 13 .265 .320 .319 .639 86 1965 37 HOU NL 21 41 3 11 2 0 0 1 0 0 0 2 .268 .286 .317 .603 76

Eloy and Yoan are going to wreck shit for awhile

It’s quite comical this organization wanted to see Palka and Skole get at bats this last month instead of Mercedes.

Why LOL? The plan was that this is a bullpen game. Nova was to start and pitch one inning rather than throw a bullpen session, which he would normally do today.

Sigh. No Mendick again yet Skole and Palka keep getting at bats.

Rick Hahn deserves a lifetime contract for getting those two superstars. Add in Eloy and Collins. Goodness

I'd consider giving a package of Lopez, Colome and either Rutherford or Collins. Boston would have to consider it.

Now you're accusing a guy like Altuve of juicing just because he doesn't fit your predisposed mold of a baseball player. If the argument is Altuve is 100+ million dollars better at his job because of steroids, I'd argue that with you all day.

1954,1955,1957,1959,1960

Oh wait, Chico Carrasquel too. He was 4x all star at ss for the sox

So good news everyone! My cousin owns his own business and is planning to create a spot for me in it. I've worked for him for a short time before on a trial basis, mostly to see what I was and wasn't good at. He knows how I can contribute in a more productive way this time. He suggested I start getting some Comp TIA and other certifications. I just am getting started today and I'm excited for what the future holds!

Like all things, it's probably some of both. I don't think I've seen such upper cut swings ever in history. Of course there will be more home runs if everyone swings like that. Not coincidentally strikeouts are up as well.

Yeah, but that does nothing to help our bullpen next season. Totally ok with doing it, but still need the same amount of bullpen help.

Hey, William, Tribe fan here who lurks at this forum because of the clever and consistently sardonic dark humor that is often on display here. Despite how much I wanted the Twins to drop tonight's game, the Sox played hard and you guys had me in tears laughing at your comments as the inevitable occurred. We are brethren, you know, charter members of the American League, and with team histories that are largely dismal despite bright patches here and there. I would acknowledge that our "best of times" have been longer stretches than yours, but our troughs have been just as bad and probably worse (particularly the 30-year bleakness between 1963 and 1993, which I lived through). As far as "hating the Sox" for losing this one tonight, nah, we weren't going to run down Minnesota anyway, so no need to feel bad. Frankly, the Sox are singularly responsible for us not staying in the AL Central race longer; we won the season series against the Twins, but the Sox have had our number this year. And to be honest, as far as guilt goes, I still suffer it greatly, feeling the Tribe let down not only all of our fans, but all the South Side for allowing the Cubs off the hook in 2016. We should never have done that to a fellow AL Charter member club...I know how much easier it would have been on all of you if you retained the most recent baseball championship in your fine city. And for that, you should always hate us. I hate us. We've lost the World Series twice in my lifetime in extra innings in game seven, and I never had a chance to celebrate a World Series victory with my Dad, which we would have done had we hung on in 2016. Best of luck to you guys...I think we'll be competing quite a bit in the AL Central over the next decade, but I wouldn't mind if the freakin' Twins were left out of it. Speaking of whom, can anyone explain to me why there aren't more national whispers about how a guy at 39 years of age is having the best year of his career and is creating exit velocities that are superman-like at a time of year most guys are wearing down? I really don't understand why there aren't more eyebrows raised, if only for the implication that masking agents must be working real well right now. Nelson Cruz is flat out ridiculous, and not in a good way.

Would the White Sox using an opener regularly be the last straw?

I see your point but I don't see him ever being a useful piece. I'd personally rather give Fulmer his final shot than Ruiz get any more innings. He's just awful.

It looks like you agree that there was reason to sign one of Brychado. They will both still be younger than any free agent the Sox can sign next offseason. But the Sox still failed miserably in their efforts on both guys and Hahn ended up signing a bunch of bums, minus McCann. So what part of last offseason or any prior Hahn offseason instills any faith in you that next offseason will be good? Has Hahn ever even had a good offseason, free agent-wise?

Ricky is great at one thing... losing.

Can we please give Ruiz the Jose Paniagua treatment after the game

I fucking hate Ruiz.

He also threw Rutherford into his post as a guy who should be playing a lot in the majors and soon when he’s not even close to ready, if he ever even will be. Has anyone else on this board noticed this with Greg? He seems to be the ultimate mischievous troll who plays dumb but truly knows what he is doing.

1. Yes I am/was 2. So...? If he isn't good you don't force him into action because of his draft selection and age. 3. Of course but if they stink, I don't. Collins has been awful, granted a small sample size. If their goal is to win I'm not sure how him playing 5 nights a week over an All Star makes sense. If Collins was "can't miss" he would've went higher than 10. Every guy picked in really the first 2 rounds of every MLB draft were great players their whole lives. That doesn't mean they deserve MLB playing time. Look, I had high hopes for Collins too but he's been bad and this would've been the year for him to play a lot, but the FO and staff's decision to not make it a priority is telling. BTW, Rutherford has shown next to no power and that stuff doesn't fly for a corner OF'er. Furthermore Rutherford was obtained for what turned out to be nothing. It's not like he was a main piece for Sale or something.

Collins has been figuring it out. Been swinging a lot earlier in counts the last 2 games he's played.

@greg775 was right! Collins, 10th pick, guaranteed stud!! Crushed it!

Maybe the red flag is long-term front office personnel in both franchises.

With precedence on his side and as his guide, he can now return to his high spendin’ ways of yesteryear and see to bring in the kind of premium talent from the outside he’s going to need to finish off the job on the rebuild. The money will be spent. The moment of reckoning grows nearer now just on how much money and on whom it is spent.

Reinsdorf has made a lot of mistakes - the strike being front and center. He has certainly wanted to control salary growth, but at no point in Jerry's modern tenure-1995-2012 could you call him "cheap" or a money hoarder. Maybe he was cheap when it came to development, prospects and investment in the farm, but he was never cheap when it came to % of revenue spent on payroll. For an EXTENDED period of time (10ish years) he spent the highest % of revenue on payroll in all of baseball. He just didnt invest it all in one player or two. Jerry has proven time and time again as an owner in Chicago that he will spend money on a team that wins. He has even spent on some losing teams in that time. He's never going to be the Red Sox, Yankees or Dodgers but the White Sox are also never going to earn like those teams. there's been a good percentage of years that he did outspend the Cubs despite not out earning them. I hate on Jerry for a lot - he's too risk averse at the upper echelon of talent when risk has to be taken there - but he's not some greedy shit head spending decades robbing fans of the revenue they generate for the team.

Renteria, bad manager? Bunt hear me out...

I searched for another thread and didn't find it. Apparently, Renteria didn't understand what the umps were asking re: his challenge of Narvaez's "homer" last night and didn't challenge, a move that cost the Sox the game. Is he on pain meds? How stupid. Also, the 8th today where he let's a spent Hector put 3 guys on and then plays musical relievers for like 45 minutes was unwatchable.

Renteria is a horrible in game manager, from lineup construction to bullpen usage. He needs replaced

Ricky is a terrible manager. That's all I need to know