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This was a terrible two weeks, with Wheeler balking at our top offer, the Ozuna non signing, and then Strasburg and Cole setting a literally impossible FA market. Everyone here is a little on edge lately because of it. I don’t blame the fanbase for being completely broken by a team that has changed direction a lot recently, proven absolutely nothing, and has had the same cast of characters for years at the top... who are now facing the biggest Sox playoff drought in 40 years. During 2020, we will probably have our best record in the last 9 years. Even without upgrades, it’s not hard to imagine this team, settling into its own, might be ready to be an 83 game winner...As is. Which is not done. Career years are certainly possible with some of these emerging stars. Imagine if Eloy is a 45-50 home run hitter? What if Madrigal hits .350 with an OBA of .410? We just don’t know. We have a ton of young talent, and there are still other upgrades out there. I still think we are a #2-#3 pitcher away from being potentially a division winner. I think people need to keep in mind that as of December 2018 literally no one expected either Giolito or Moncada to take that huge of a step forward- but they did. And now we take it for granted...imagine if that were to happen for Lopez and Madrigal this season. lets try not to tear each other to pieces during this brutal process

This is what you call a little frustrated? As I said in the other thread, I will be disappointed but not pissed. It's a game. Its entertainment. It's not life. I save my anger for the semi who ran a red light today and ran me into the ditch. All I care about is if they carry through with the plan to put a competitive team on the field and start competing for the playoffs. How they do it is up to them. If they dont come, they should be fired. But I'm not going to start a riot over it.

No I'm not that kind of person. I will be disappointed but it wont ruin my life to the point that I continuously berate them. I will still go to games because I enjoy baseball. And I will as I've always said think they should be fired if they dont have a winning season this year or start contending for the playoffs next year.

Or, hey the Sox signed Grandal and came in second for their pitching target, rejoice. Why? The White Sox are a mid market team playing in a major market. They are the reason they are a mid market team. That is how they operate. I have defended JR a lot, and have written this a lot recently, it’s time for JR to sell. Sell it to someone who will refuse to be a mid market team. Will make fans expect winning. Expect signing the best players, and make them relevant again. When is the last time the Cubs lost out on a guy even after offering the most money because he wanted to play by his future in laws.? We have accepted mediocrity long enough. It is time to stop operating like a mom and pop shop, and act like a major league team playing in a world class city that players love coming to. If JR cannot operate like that, his toy should be taken away.

It is very hard to come on this board. It really is used only for venting. We got Grandal and Nomar. Don’t need anymore. Pitchers, need 1 if can otherwise it doesn’t matter who it is. All this talk about how important it is. We have pitchers, our problem is most will be on limits. If anything, the off-season next year is the most important. Doesn’t matter how bad you guys want it. 4 years is not that long. The players we have NEED to pitch. Have to see how they improve. All this complaining about signing so and so to pitch. I laugh every time I see it. Buckle up. I for 1 am excited to see everyone play. Can’t wait. Hahn, has done as good as possible. No mistakes so far. The window for Gio and Moncada is getting smaller. Nothing you can do about it. If they stay as good as advertised, we’ll be able to adjust. I just want to see what happens when everyone is up and playing plus the additions so far. It’s exciting to be a Sox fan right now

The guy will be 35 in August, has averaged 21 starts a year the last 3 years. There really is no reason to have any interest especially if they aren’t adding a good player and they expect one back. Just move on. Let them be handcuffed. Continuing can only blow up in your face. No need to be Wiley Coyote again.

Indications that Bloom is negotiating, albeit; in public: Initial offer: Trade Price and his entire contract, for another team's prospects. First update: Doesn't want to include any other players, but agrees to pay down a part of Price's contract. Still looking for something back from the other team. Stay tuned for more concessions. ??? I hadn't thought about that. Good point. Let's hope that they learned their lesson, and they might be well advised to inform Bloom of their acquired wisdom: "We made that mistake, but we won't do it again".

Ok, we are beginning to make progress. Bloom continues to "insist" that they don't want to attach prospects, however they appear to be openly recognizing that Price's value is considerably less than his contract. So, now we have established two critical factors; 1) Bloom admits that Price is worth substantially less than his contract and 2) that he is desperate to unload salary. Any buyer should be asking Boston what they can do to make it attractive for a team to accommodate their pressing need to unload that contract. Sending anything of value back to Boston shouldn't even be in the discussion. I suspect that the most enticing offer to Bloom would be one which did not ask for the contract to be paid down. If I were Hahn, I would tell Bloom the following: We understand that you really want to offload a considerable amount of salary obligations. We agree with your statement that David Price is worth less than the $96 million contract. You concede that it's at leat $36 million dollars more than Price's value. We have consulted various analytics, which assert that it is closer to $50 million over his value. How much would you value being able to reduce your payroll by $96 million, over the next 3 years? We would be willing to take that entire contract off your hands, but we would need to receive enough value back, in return. Which player, or players can you offer to include in the deal, in order to fairly compensate us for the overpayment on Price's contract? You have stated that you do not want to include prospects. We would consider an established player, instead of prospects, if said player's value, is at least as high as his salary, plus the approximately $50 million of excess cost to us, in relieving you of your ageing pitcher and your obligation to pay his contract. If Bloom wants to negotiate. the only points worthy of discussion are the exact amount of the excess cost, over value, of Price's contract and exactly which player we would accept from Boston, to be included in the trade.

It doesn’t matter....because Hahn’s not going to take the risk of assuming the contract without Benintendi. Taking just a subsidy of $30-45 million and Price going completely south is just too risky. It would be one thing if we knew what we were going to get out of Kopech, Cease, Rodon and Dunning...but we just don’t know yet. The Red Sox will only cut it down to 3/$60. We’re better off signing Ryu or Keuchel at those numbers. The other reason is the fact that this might be his best remaining season...and we’re still on the short end of playoff contention unless everything goes right with the Sox and wrong with the Twins and Indians simultaneously. You can’t take on what would still be one of the five biggest contracts in team history because you feel backed into a corner after Wheeler falling through. You make the Red Sox start the season with Price, Eovaldi and Sale or you get them to send another $15-30 million (bringing the cost to the White Sox into the $30-45 million range) and you use that money for EE and Wade Miley and send Collins to Boston. Only if they’re going to add those two other players should you think about this move. Just Price isn’t enough to move the needle. If the Red Sox won’t give you that kind of discount, move on and force someone else to take that risk. We didn’t completely rebuild to turn around and have everything teetering on a landline contract like that.

In what way have those morons shown any ability to learn anything? In what way have they shown a willingness to do things differently? What I'm guessing is that they'll undervalue SP contracts, and wonder why they can't get Ryu for 3/$45MM. Then they'll get desperate, and bail out the sawx while stupidly giving away value. I hope I'm wrong.

This is just not true about venting. When the Sox are in on good players people are happy and excited. The last 7 years and FA letdowns create the negativity and doubt. I'm sure this board would be different had we signed Wheeler and Ozuna/Castellanos.

I want to see this video. Where can I find it?

I don't have a link, but I did see it also. The piece was done by Verducci. He also showed clips as to WHY Nomar was better in the second half because he was cutting down on a lot of unnecessary movable mechanics. He says if he could get them cut down even more so as to improve his timing , and get it more consistent, that we may REALLY HAVE SOMETHING. He said that he REALLY likes this move for The Sox. He also said that he has what would be called "stupid power" and showed the 500 footer that he hit against us this year. Even Joey Gallo said in an interview that in batting practice, that he was putting balls on the roof. WHO KNOWS? If they can cut down his mechanics, shorten his swing and harness his power, we may have something. Certainly worth a shot when only giving up a AA player when we already have 4 other minor league outfielders that are ahead of Walker in their progressions

That they had 6 more wins, while not having 1/3 of their schedule against the Tigers, Royals and White Sox shows there's a gigantic difference at play here.

Reinsdorf, Hahn, and Kenny suck IMO but this is ridiculous racist trash. Chicago likes good players, regardless of race or creed.

You're an idiot.

Chicago loves to over love players who play the game The White Way.

I think he thought Jerry would actually spend money. Rather, Jerry meant he would only spend more than he has ever spent (Grandal). Honestly, it is embarrassing that we have zero $100 million contracts. I mean, KC has had one and we have not. The top 3 Angels: Trout, Pujols and Rendon will make more than the entire White Sox roster next year. This will not win you baseball games, not consistently, not multiple championships.

😂😂😂😂 Please, stop. I honestly can't believe people even propose things like this. The corner is here, let's start over again!

Here to give a nod to Jimmy about Stiever. James was all over Stiever as a sleeper from the draft on, and that helped push him into the T30 list right away when other sites didn't list him. Now BA has him 6th. That's a hell of a rise.

Yep next year we will hear they can’t spend a lot because they have to save payroll for possible extensions

Reading through the board, I can't help but get the feeling that many people actually expected the Sox to compete for a ring this season. Be it the idea of overpaying for starting pitching, dropping a record contract on a player not fitting a position of need, comfort with trading young prospects, or just getting upset that Hahn hasn't "spent the money". 2020 should have never been the season we Sox fans expected a truly competitive team. We're going to be several weeks without Madrigal and/or Robert, and then likely have to wait for them to adjust to ML pitching. A month or several months without Rodon and Kopech. Cease and Lopez need to find consistency. Collins is still learning how to hit in the majors. This was a 72 win team last season. I don't blame Hahn or Jerry for not going all in this offseason. We may be competitive for a WC slot this season or, best case scenario, everyone performs as we hope, win the division, and get shellacked by the Yankees or Astros in the playoffs. This would be the case even if we'd gotten Wheeler or Rendon. If Hahn fills RF with a Mazara platoon partner and can get a decent stopgap SP, I'd call this offseason a success. Give us this season to win more games, let guys mature, let Kopech and Rodon get healthy and back in form, and see what happens. Next offseason is when we go all in, imo.

Thank you Rick Hahn, very cool

Let them see who wants Price at $60 million. I would say no one.Then let them see about $50 million. Getting closer but still no great bargain. Taking money is doing the Sawks a great service, they only net what you take off Price’s contract but also their penalty. Treat him like the injured 34 year old he is.

I have a love for players who can catch the ball and in Madrigal case he takes pitches and works the count, hits behind the runner, has high OBP, excellent bunter, doesn't strike out and can steal bases. Yeah...I love that kind of player.

If I had to guess, the sawx FO is waiting for KW/RH to get desperate and stoopid. The sawx had to see how KW/RH stupidly gave away valuable pieces for Shields and Samardzjia, and are waiting to rip off the SOX. I hate the idea of these imbeciles making a trade, particularly given their rich history of abject failure in this area.

20 million per is inline with his probable value. They need salary relief and we can offer that. Prospects shouldn't enter the equation.

MLBN with a wow feature on Nomar. Had a good second half quieting his swing and compared his stats and approach with King Harold age 24. We may have the perfect mentor on hand for this lad.

I'm good with this as long as they get off the Vaughn and Madrigal return. I mean I feel neither one should go anywhere. I'm nervous about Dunning or Steaver going too. We're helping them out! They are the ones with the financial issues. Send them Pinkington or a Flores and I would pick up $20 million/yr for the rest of his contract.

Blu Jays are such a weird team. I can't ever understand what they are doing. I'd rather if Sox are interested they bid at last minute and avoid another Wheeler egg face moment. Seems to me Heyman is just using Jays right now for Boras.

What are you trying to accomplish here?

But how similar are those other organizations? Is Reinsdorf allowing Hahn or Williams to spend on scouting, international free agents, analytics, etc...like some of these successful smaller market teams? To me that is questionable. I'm not defending Hahn, because I agree with all your grades. I just wonder if everyone's hands are tied by Reinsdorf's cheapskate ways?

A+ for turning team friendly contracts into high end prospects. C for the draft. D for scouting. D in trades. D-/F in player development. F in free agency (execution and approach). F for adding meaningful long term pieces to the rebuild outside of the draft. Rick Hahn works within some ownership level constraints that do tie his hands so he can't be blamed entirely. I don't know if a different GM would be different or better, But other franchises operate under similar financial constraint/limitations but seem to have more success in these areas.

Comparatively, I would agree. More thoughtful and informative as well.

Go read Hahn’s quotes. They are far more hilarious.

People have legitimately lost their minds. It’s mid-December. They signed the best catcher on the market. Then they offered their top SP choice 125 million dollars. If they did that during the winter meetings instead of the 2 weeks leading up to the meeting, people would be happy. Sox fans have turned into a bunch of whiny, panicky, wimps. Get a hold of yourselves. The fanbase is in hysterics. And why? Because they signed an average player who may or may not be the 7th hitter when all is said and done?

I dunno guys. I think the rebuild is an A+ so far. I think the Sox have way more talent in the minors than most realize. While the top is indeed super heavy, I don’t think the system is top heavy if that makes sense. If Burger, Hansen, Burdi, Adolfo, Kopech & Rutherford etc. all suck this year then I may join the critics, but I just have a feeling that the farm depth is going to come roaring back this year. If that happens watch out because most of the ML roster is already filled.

We shall see.

Holy shinkies batman, you would trade for Price straight up? That's not going to end well.

YES YES YES YES YES!!! This is why it's good most of the fan base aren't the GM. We'd be screwed. I've been saying this for like 2-3 years now. Here are my comments from January of 2019 after we missed out on Machado: But it was always going to be that way.. we had no minor league system. Even if those 4-5 guys were absolute studs, you'd need to do a lot of supplementing with FA because the minor leagues was such a desert. You're not building this for 2019 or 2020. You're building this to hopefully be the Cardinals or any other really successful organization that it's a constant revolving door of home grown talent, young minor league talent coming up and your occasional big splash FA. The kind where you can let a Pujols leave and not miss a beat. Or where you can make an offer to David Price or Stanton, etc. etc. 1- Look to the future. Look to 2021 or 2022 when the Sox are hopefully in the ALCS. Adam Engel won't be on that team. Palka 98% sure won't be on that team. Nicky Delmonico won't be on that team (maybe even this one), Leury Garcia, Cordell, Tilson .... none of those guys will be on the team or even really have more than a 1-2% chance of being on that team. Leury is your best shot, but there will be a cheaper, younger option who can fulfill his role. So all of those who are making the point that a 33 year old is stealing somebody's time needs to can it. 2018 was their opportunity to make noise. We gave these young guys a whole year at the MLB level.. a shot that they'd only get with a 60 win team. We owe these AAA guys nothing. 5- Whether you believe it or not, this team, if it can sign Machado is positioning itself for a 2017 Twins like opportunity. If Eloy does as expected, if Moncada takes a few steps forward? Add in Machado and maybe a guy like Ervin Santana? All of a sudden I think you maybe are talking a 80-87 win team. That's all we can really ask for over the next two years anyways... a Band-Aid team on 1-2 year deals that hopefully you can have a chance with if all goes right. The real fun begins in 2021 anyways. August of 2018: The time isn't even right to bring up Eloy or Kopech according to Hahn, so why in 3 months would it be the right time to spend $300mm? As much as I'd love it, JR isn't signing off on $300mm contracts when your rotation is still 2-3 years from coming together and being competitive. Same with Madrigal, Robert, Collins, etc. Those guys are all 2020 guys. Arenado would be our first real POSSIBLE FA signing. In regards to Moncada when he was batting awful in 2018: I mean, for all the people complaining, just read this stat over and over. If he changes his approach just a little he's going to take off. As much as we'd all love him to be Juan Soto or some rookie that comes to the majors and just rakes and never looks back he is likely to follow the path of Javy Baez and Avi Garcia a bit more. We should be thankful he is learning on the 2017/2018 Sox and isn't a Madrigal or Robert that won't have as much of a leash to learn on the fly on the 2020-2021 Sox. (Also one of the reasons the BoSox traded him - didn't have the luxury of letting him learn) I sometimes think that SoxTalk has memory of a fly. All of a sudden we like Palka and Engel? And dump Garcia? Last year it was let Engel rot and Garcia should be handed an extension... oh and that Nicky Delmonico can be a part of the future and that Davidson is a joke. Then in the beginning of the year it was Davidson can be the DH of the future!! He gets hurt for a few weeks and all of a sudden it's play Palka over Davidson when Nicky and Avi return.... How about this? Really none of these guys are much better or worse than each other and put them on the Nationals or Cubs or Astros and they'd all be riding the bench or in AAA. If we want to be a team that really competes for it all each year I don't think many of these guys are part of it. Hopefully you find 2-3 players from this disaster of a 2-3 years of baseball. Also found this gem in regards to win totals in 2019 from January. I'd say this number is probably a bit high right now, but not far off. You're talking 12 more wins than last year ... with a solid bullpen you may be looking at 4-5 wins alone right there. Any progression from Giolito and Moncada would help a ton... someone on base (Jay) in front of a Abreu should help and add in Eloy... I think at this exact moment, figuring maybe some veteran 1 year gap SP and maybe an OF (basically assuming no machado or harper) I'd say... 70-72 is my guess. You also have to remember the division is awwwfullll. Indians are worse, Royals are worse, Tigers are worse... and that's like 70 games of your schedule. You can check my track record - I've been mostly consistent on my takes. Even for this year - I said a realistic offseason would be to add Grandal, Smoak/EE, bring back a Nova type and that I'd check in on a Rich Hill/Alex Wood type. That's a fine offseason. There's no need to push down the gas a year too early. You sign stop gap 1-2 year guys & next offseason is when you can truly assess your team and needs. That's when you spend. Just revel in the fact that this team has finally turned the corner and will be an 80-83 win team, but most importantly FUN to watch. We are going to have some really fun stretches this year where we win 6-8 games in a row and we'll see glimpses of the future. We'll also probably have some maddening losses and terrible stretches. That's what young teams do. They learn to win. And that's what this yaer is all about. It wouldn't mattter if we signed Rendon and Cole BOTH this year... we wouldn't be winning a world series. We're going to have young, inconsistent guys learning. And that's fine. In a perfect world maybe 2020 couldve happened, but that was assuming that Kopech and Moncada and Burger and Lopez and Giolito and Eloy, etc. etc. etc. ALL didn't go through any struggles and turned into All-Stars. ANNNNDD. just like how every guy i just listed had issues .... you're going to see Robert and Madrigal and Cease and all the other young prospects go through struggles too. That's why 2020 was never really going to happen. Be happy - not spending and locking into long contracts this offseason is a GOOD thing. Drops Mic. And you can go reference this post in 2020-21 offseason if you want. If the Sox don't spend or trade then? Then this franchise will have killed my last remaining support.

About now I feel like the kid on Christmas Day who was hoping for the Red Ryder BB Gun, but didn't get it!

How accurate has the pessimistic lens been for the last decade?

My assessment on this offseason is dependent on who they get for the rotation. My preference is to spend $$ and not assets to get that starting pitcher(s)

They shouldn’t rebuild, but at least we know our owner is smarter than the dumb Bulls owner that let the same Front Office oversee multiple rebuilds.

Back to Mazara: I seriously think he can be a breakout player. He oozes talent and has some bright tools. I also think the Sox family environment, especially among the Latin American players, will be very beneficial for him. Those guys all really pull for each other.

People who grow up don't care about their family and things they enjoy with their family anymore? Weird stuff. You spend hours on this message board, as do many of us, debating and arguing over something that only a child should care about according to you. The day sharing a common interest with your family and enjoying those moments - while wanting to have more of the successful ones - becomes something childish I will be long gone.

Well maybe they should shut the fuck up then because they have implied two off seasons in a row that they were going to spend big. Sox just saves hundreds of millions by spending and investing nothing into the mlb team for years. Would be nice for this organization to pay back the fans loyalty and patience for once.

Damn, they are quite high on Thompson.