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Going into the offseason, if someone would’ve told me that the Sox would land Yasmani Grandal and Dallas Keuchel, I would be ecstatic. Couple that with Mazara in right and adding Gio to the rotation, I think our guys have quietly had the best offseason of any team so far.

She is Caitlin now whether you like or not. You don't get to decide her history. The subtle transphobia deserved to be called out as well.

There’s zero need to have brought it up in the first place

Yea. And?

I know we thrive on negativity on Soxtalk but I gotta say...there is not a single batter in your lineup that I don't want to watch hit. There's not a single pitcher on your list that I would be angry about having tickets for his start. This is about entertainment...and I love dreaming that Madrigal is going to be Rod Carew, that Robert is going to be Ken Griffey Junior, Vaughan is going to be Frank Thomas, Eloy will hit 50 home runs a year and they won't even be the best player on the field. I love the idea that Kopech, Cease, Rodon and Giolito could create a late 90's Brave-like rotation. My god we suffered through the 2018 tank year where Yolmer, Engel, Palka, Davidson, Navarez and Avisail were 6 of our top 9 batters by at bats and Dylan Covey, James Shields and Hector Santiago were three of our top 6 starters by IP. But past is prologue. i think we are on the cusp of something amazing.

He does a great job with minor league stuff during the season. You’re missing out on a lot if you don’t follow him.

It wasn't very subtle...

I know I'm going to get shit on for being negative, because everyone is excited that they don't have to watch Dylan Covey pitch all year, and I get that, but looking at this in full context, I hate all of it. Classic White Sox. Get the 6th best guy on the market for roughly $50M, call it a marquee signing because the guy used to be good. The guy had a 4.72 FIP last year. Wasn't even worth 1 WAR in 112 innings. He's a fourth starter with the upside to be a 3. THIS is what I was afraid of. "The money will be spent" means spending $15-20M on a handful of okay players. It's Melky Cabreras all over again. All the teams that actually get to the playoffs are developing their averageish players and buying the elite talent to truly supplement their core. Altogether now, the White have committed a bit over $60m next year to: 1. A good catcher to upgrade a spot where they already had a solid player, who may be overvalued because we aren't actually sure how to quantify pitch framing 2. A slightly above average 1B/DH 3. a SP with a near 5 FIP last year, worth just under 1.5 fWAR if you extrapolated to a full season. Steamer project 2.6 next year, mostly on past track record. 4. 34-year old Gio Gonzalez 5. a reclamation project RF who has failed for four seasons now. Meanwhile, the Yankees have committed $36M to Gerrit Cole, the best pitcher in baseball, who Steamer projects at 6 and half wins. The White Sox spent nearly TWICE as much on a bunch of useful spare parts. Having missed on the actual difference makers, the White Sox would have been better off just punting until next year, and letting their players continue to develop, to have another shot at a true difference maker in Betts or whatever. Except of course that they would never actually have a chance at Betts, because the ownership/front office is too afraid of long-term contracts to actually have a chance to win. Every successful team is investing heavily in player development and then being opportunistic with elite, big-time players. The White Sox won't play that game. Yeah, I know, if literally everything goes as good as it could go next year, the Sox could win 85-90 games. Everyone is healthy, everyone takes a step forward, no one regresses, etc. But, I'll put it this way: there are only two teams insisting on this strategy of spending inefficient FA money on 5 middle-of-the-road players instead of 2 elite ones -- and it's the White Sox and the Reds. That's your model. Basically the Pirates the last five years.

Honestly, I’d just go with Robert and Madrigal on OD. The window is starting. Why go into the season with Engel and Mendick as starters when you could start grooming two future All Stars at the highest level? That’s spiting the now for the distant future, and 2026 success depends on other factors beyond the retention of those two anyhow. Yeah, I know they’re not actually going to do this, FWIW.

You mean the guy that had a higher OPS+ last year than anyone else on the current roster other than Moncada?

Whether or not he has enough gap power(doubles/triples) to stick in the majors. I'd imagine there's going to be a lot of RFers playing close enough to the IF to make it close at 1B. That's the one thing I'm concerned about with Madrigal. I also wonder how defensive positioning will affect him. I think players with Madrigal's skillset are underrated in today's game, but that type of hitter has to have enough gap power to make up for the lack of HRs.

I know your Padres are having a rough offseason but EE is far from "low end mediocre"

This mindset has me signing in to post for the first time in a very, very long time. Wheeler is better than Keuchel, so he would be the better signing. The “savings“ only matter if you use the money, and even then, it’s impossible to make a 1:1 comparison. And even even then, it’s not any of our money so why do we care?

Keuchel for 3/56>Wheeler for 5/$118

As a fan, this is worth so much. I'm not in Chicago much anymore, but I did visit in 2015 and got Sox tickets. John Danks was pitching. Missed out on Sale, Quintana, and Rodon, and got 2015 Danks. It was amazing having my wife and kid at that special place, and we won, but damn if that wasn't a bit of a letdown. Having stretches of Yolmer, Engel, Cordell, and Castillo, or some of those other disasters you mentioned...well, it was nice having innings where I could safely march off and take a nice, long shit. Guess what? We don't have that anymore! From a tactical baseball perspective, some of the pessimists on here are freaking out about WAR. I really don't care about that at all. Someone find me the weakness on this team. A month or two into the season, and the "easiest" stretch for an opposing pitcher will be something like McCann-Mazara-Madrigal. The "easiest" possible slate for a team coming to play three games in Chitown will probably be Gonzalez, Lopez, and Cease. No more do opposing fans and players get to dream about beating up on any combination of Sanchez, Tilson, Detwiler, Santiago, Covey and whoever. We are much more solid from top to bottom.

A new arm?

The fact that they were "never going to" sign those guys doesn't give them a pass for not signing those guys.

You sound like Mike North with that statement. And Grandal qualifies as mid tier/okay player? C'mon, you're better than that.

As you all suspected it was fake. Once the tigers fan heard the Sox signed keuchel he told me to go fuck my self and fuck the white sox. Jokes on him he’s a tigers fan lolol fun to discuss anyways

Or has someone banging a trashcan behind the dugout to let him know what pitch is coming

Madrigal is going to be the guy that future little men want to emulate. I have a great feeling about that kid. He’s not going to be Pedroia or Altuve or Figgins but he might be a mixture of those and a touch of his own uniqueness. He will be great.

What in the fuck? Encarnacion posted an .875 OPS / 129 wRC+ last year which helped him put up 2.5 fWAR in just 109 games. We was a better hitter than Jose last year and we just give him $50M. EE would be an astute signing as his market is very limited and we should be able to get him on a reasonable one year deal.

Listen, I like Madrigal. He's answered most of the questions I've had since he's been drafted. 31 2B, 5 3B and 5 HR just isn't cutting it in the power department. Mostly the bolded. I'd like to see him hit 40+ 2B, 5+3B and around 5-8 HR.

How can anyone be upset with these moves? None of the core prospects are being blocked and no long-term money has been spent that should make it harder to extend the core players

One thing I absolutely love about EE is that he's embracing the importance of launch angle. He had one of the highest average launch angles in baseball last year at 22 degrees. That's 5 degrees higher than his career average. There's a reason he's still hitting bombs at 36 and was on pace to hit almost 50 last year. Launch angle is what a lot of our hitters struggle with badly. Abreu hits the ball hard but almost always on the ground or on a line hence why he doesn't hit as well as his exit velos and hard hit % indicate. Mazara also suffered greatly from low launch angles. I'm not sure if EE's approach will rub off on the other guys on the team, but it can't hurt to have a guy who preaches and practices it.

Based on 30 at bats in June??? Come on...he has an elite batters eye and plus power. Did I mention he's lefty, 24 and had a .950 OPS in AAA in 300 at bats??? Are we benching Robert when he has a bad couple of weeks in May? We chose a lane...trust in young talent...I really don't want to return to the lane of ...sign other teams old stars when they no longer want them.

Seriously... Go look at how he hit last year and the past few years. He had an injury mid season and still crushed the ball in the 2nd half. He was hitting in the middle of the lineup for a 100+ win Yankees team. But all of a sudden he's too much of a scrub and worse than the guy who's only hit AAA pitching well. Also it's not like he's a 37 year old asking for a 4 year deal. More likely than not, he's here for one year. I'd look at him as an insurance policy. If Collins mashes, great, you can play Collins and maybe flip EE at the deadline. If Collins struggles, you still have a DH.

Uhhhhh yeah Grateful for that miss

I’m not sure why you are trying to bash Wheeler so bad. He’s a 4 WAR guy and Hahn tried to sign him. Hahn must be a moron for wanting him at $125 million then, right? He’s good. Get over it.

Also tip my cap to Hahn. It's quite obvious his real off-season plan was: Grandal, wheeler, mazara (stop gap RF with ceiling) and Gio - that was about as good of a plan as I could have put together.

"Offensive minded DH" Why would you ever want a Defensive minded DH?

Ok, I'm sorry, I'm done. I hope this all works out. I'm just pointing out that, when this team committed to a rebuild, they had a chance to modernize and catch up with the top franchises in MLB. And the result is turning out to be much closer to business as usual. And that's frustrating.

Good thing FIP has absolutely nothing to do with how many runs a pitcher actually gives up.

A few posts did not age well but I like this one the best.

Twins didnt get him, so theres that

I’m just curious at what a false alarm can be? He tweeted that Edwin was a White Sox player. Then he tweeted that it was a false alarm. Did his source say “guess what we signed Edwin!” And then follow up with a text that said “just kidding”

You are really drawing some serious conclusions based on a 30 at-bat sample that involved a .400 BABIP.

And you really don't seem to understand that Collins has a major pedigree...he was BA's freshman of the year at Miami, as a junior he led all college players in walks, he won the Buster Posey award as best college catcher. He was a top ten draft pick. In 2017 he was selected to the Futures game and He led all minor league players in walks in 2018...was a Southern league all star...mid year and year end. And yes he had a .950 OPS in 2019....then had 30 terrible at bats in June, wherein you and everyone else on Soxtalk determined he's not good...and then in his final 30 at bats in September he had a .930 OPS. Every other fan base in baseball would be excited about Collins and we wan a 37 year old fading star. I surrender.

Again, why sign Madrigal to an extension when you have no idea about the type of player he will be?

Yes, though decent chance we can get a fast rising college pitcher this year. I do love we still have our second round pick.

Well guys it's been about 86 hours

I was actually hoping that the bat was Cesar Hernandez. That would have given them another year to evaluate Madrigal.

It makes no sense to trade 5 years of Collins who can still develop over 1 year of McCann.

McCann/Grandal is the ideal RH/LH platoon. at catcher. Collins deserves a chance to be a back-up catcher....on another team. No room for minor league talent like Collins on the 2020 roster.

Not a chance

Bold...I really like what PHI did Anytime you can get a #3 starter with a near 4 ERA for $118M...you do it

Everyone has a right to complain but not even close to massive overpay. People will complain sox dont spend money then when they do they complain they spent too much. I understand people being disappointed that wheeler is not a sox. But they had top offer. Besides I wouldn't be surprised if keuchel and wheeler have similar numbers. Wheeler has never stepped up and been even close to an ace. 100 million for him is the gross over pay. I am excited about the sox signings this offseason. Should make them competitive in the division. Unfortunately they never had a shot at Cole or Strasburg.

I don't know how to embed a tweet. Regardless, I'd like to think I may have had a little hand in getting this one done. Link

Who cares about WAR? 19 starts last year. 12 of them quality. Only gave up more than 4 ERs twice, and only in his sole disaster outing of the year did he fail to pitch five innings. Dude will give us a decent chance to win every time he goes out. Dylan Covey gave us one QS in 12. We were pretty much finished in several of his starts before we even came to bat. He’s DONE. Ross Detwiler gave us two QS in 12. He’s DONE. Despaigne, Santana, and Banuelos gave us one QS in 14. There’s four QS in 38 games. And it’s not like they were just failing to reach the six inning mark to have QS; those five gave up four or more ER in 21 of their starts. They’re DONE. Keuchel eliminates all of them. And he’s reliable, unlike Ryu. Too many people on here think we need an ace. No- arguably, we already have one in Lucas. We now just need people to add to the potent but untested youth who will give us a chance to win and keep the uninteresting (for us fans) and disastrous (for our W-L) pitchers off the mound. Dallas and Gio do that just fine.

I think the memo you missed was the one about how people evaluate hitting statistics since about 2006. No, he hasn’t proven anything — he’s a prospect. And one with a long history of elite on base and power numbers. The idea is that, given some practice and coaching, those numbers will translate as the player ages and improves. Edwin Encarnacion sucked too, actually, in his first hundred or so plate appearances in the MLB. And the idea is that, with or without a veteran DH, this team is still about three good arms short of reasonable, and the options to get those arms are running out fast, so it might make sense to give the prospect that chance to improve this year so that he’ll be better when/if the team ever DOES decide to compete.