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There is no prototype for how Covid affects each person medium-long term

But could you imagine how popular the Sox would become with teen girls if they made this trade?

I'd bet a fairly large sum of money that Vaughn is up before the Super 2 deadline.

All the Vaughn trade talk 0n here was ridiculous. Hahn wasn’t going to trade another potential great hitter after the Tatis debacle. I think he signs an extension before game one. Hope it happens

You'd be correct if the trade made sense, at all, at the time. Unfortunately James Shields was a bad idea even then. He was one year into his joke of a free agent deal, already 35 years old and coming off a year where he pitched over 200 innings and somehow only produced 0.8 fWAR. At the time of the deal, he had an ERA over 4 in the best pitcher's park of the last two decades. I HATED that trade the moment it was made, and I had no idea who Tatis was. It was the type of trade that, for a team trying to contend, wasn't even worth the roster spot they gave him LET ALONE any kind of lottery ticket going the other way.

That'd be a huge problem if Rick is afraid to trade away a guy because the Tatis deal was botched. I don't think that's the case but if it is, not good. It was a debacle. Every single statistic that was available would tell you Shields was regressing big time and that he was basically done. Obviously Tatis has ended up about 8 billion times better than anyone could have possibly imagined but trading anybody with any talent for Shields at that point was an awful, awful idea.

I mean, we could have just taken on Shields entire contract and not thrown in an athletic LatAm signee.

I think we already have the pieces. I hope you like 105 wins cuz that’s what you’re about to see. This team would piss all over 2005

Craig Biggio

Reports indicate Sheets has been adjusting to OF nicely. Wouldn't it be great if he turned into a legit corner OF'er ?

Lopez was just sent to the IL with whiplash.

I think they thought he was BPA. Lots of folks at the time hyped him as the best/smartest college player they'd ever seen. I don't think they drafted based on need - IIRC Moncada was still thought of as our primary 2b at the time, and it's not like our outfield was "full." He was above Kelenic in every mock I saw.

Nobody drafts for need and nobody knows BPA because then you would always sign him (except for pool money play). I think they saw madrigal as the best combination of ceiling and floor. Obviously he wasn't the highest ceiling guy but maybe they saw his 50th percentile outcome as the best.

That's not happening this time around. The Sox want a championship and need him to DH and spell Abreu at 1B the first two months of the season. They also need Vaughn to get his feet wet so that by around July or August, he can be established and ready for the stretch run.

Off lopez.

I expect Jose to be the opening day 1B and I expect Vaughn to be in the minors until Super 2 passes.

I made one of these for a school science fair as a kid using quart milk cartons and 4 small mirrors. I forget how old I was . Probably 10 or so but I don't remember if it actually worked because I couldn't line up the mirrors properly or cut them down to size to get the angles right to make it work . It worked in theory but the execution was lacking .

That seems premature. He didn’t even know he had it, like most people.

And I just have to repeat....The Tatis trade was not a debacle...it was putting a lottery ticket in a birthday card for someone at work and it turns out to be the winning powerball. You sure look stupid after the fact but at the time it was a lark.

Unless Vaughn ends up being capable at 3B or RF, he'd have to put up a ridiculous OPS at a 1B/DH to have anywhere near the value of Tatis. At this point it's too late to find another DH for this season, but earlier in the offseason, I'd have been willing to part with him for a top tier SP with 3+ years of control.

I'd still much rather trade him but even I have admitted that this LaVine is faaaar different than the one I've seen in a Bulls uniform and I mean on both ends of the floor. His efficiency, defense, etc. have all been outstanding. I've given credit where credit has been due for him in case you missed it. I still don't like the shit he does at times on the court but I can not get on what he's done this season as a scorer. I've never questioned LaVine's work ethic.

Nah, I don't think so. The Cubs knew what they were giving up, they got a WAY better player back, and while Eloy is already good, he hasn't reached Tatis level yet. Our deal was a prospect who, if we knew how good he was, would never have been in any trade at all, for a player in Shields that every team (and publication, tbh) knew was garbage except the White Sox, and the prospect has now blossomed into someone who has already put up 6.5 fWAR in 143 games. I appreciate the attempt at positivity, though.

‘Meh’ would have been a massive upgrade from Shields

Because it's a very stupid idea that can directly kill people when there isn't highly effective treatment available.

Not to mention Erik Johnson was the "well-known" part of that deal on the day it was made, surrendering TWO players to save money on Shields' deal instead of keeping their own talent in-house...when Fowler was desperate (this was put into the press quite openly, not an industry secret) to get Shields off the team as quickly as possible during that time span.

I didn't like the Lynn trade, but Lynn/Shields is not a good comparison. Shields was bad for more than full season leading up to the trade, and was two years older. Lynn hasn't been bad since he... got good.

I wanted Kelenic at the time. The thing that sucks is that he was on the Sox roster for the Area Code games, so it's not like they didn't scout him.

Andrew Vaughn [a different one] was a Jeopardy contestant today.

Good point but you have to trust your teammates sometime. If there are three guys on you, two of your teammates are open.

Unfortunately for you, I clearly read what you said. And the reason I responded with my post is your post clearly was a response to my earlier post, especially the part in bold. Your post really reads like even if it’s not racism, it’s something... However, definition of the crime is important here, hence my post. I guess that went over your head, but hey I’m the one having comprehension issues here. If you want to blame the guy, at least get the definition right. We are in a woke culture where we’re trying to bring awareness to social and racial injustices that are happening around us, but at the same time you cannot call racism when an act of racism hasn’t been committed. That’d be irresponsible, won’t solve issues in the long term and words start to lose meaning. Not to dismiss the public display ignorance by an executive here, he got what he deserved, but again, definition is important. Also, what’s ironic is the last paragraph here, that I let my emotions get the best of me. I must of forgotten that I was so triggered when others do not agree with my POV on a subject that I felt the need to bring up an old NBA thread every year to prove to the internet my knowledge and my superiority, and got so upset that I almost quit the site after proof of my said superiority was removed from existence. Yep, that totally happened.

UK is doing 6-17 with the Oxford/AZ vaccine son. Pfizer's full enrolled in their 12-16 range and will slowly ramp down in age every couple of months or so. Fauci said kids maybe by September, but he's always floating different dates for things so take that with a grain of salt. I haven't really heard much of anything about trials for kids under 6. I'm assuming it's going to be late 2022 before my kids can get vaccinated.

I agree. Expect an extension before OD.

Sounds like Jose had a very mild case. Thankfully.

Do you know why the Sox made that trade ? Lack of pitching depth after the season started but that was also apparent before the season started. Sound familiar ? And now you are also suggesting they do the same thing if necessary this season. You make your own luck. Lack of preparation caused a chain of events that led to the rebuild. I can understand you calling Tatis luck a little bit, but the trade in itself was a blunder. It was typical Sox acquisition that only netted them an innings eater and not a pitcher who could propel a struggling team to greater heights. A trade where the other team ate a lot of money for a guy who was a mistake for the Padres since they acquired him , a veteran who was sucking and sucked even worse once the Sox got him. He wasn't a difference maker. The majority of us hated the trade in the thread that followed the trade, not because of Tatis, but because Shields was so bad. How many times do the Sox have to keep making the same mistake over and over again before they realize that 34+ year old players who show multiple signs of decline aren't likely to improve ? No one here can claim they hated the trade for Tatis because of Tatis but the majority of us here hated it because it was a bad trade from the get go and Tatis becoming a superstar pissed us off even more.

I'm 42 and healthy (also had a very mild case of COVID in November) and I would absolutely have no issue taking J&J and allowing higher risk to get one of the others. Hopefully we reach the point soon where that is an option.

Can you imagine him in the ASG firing up shots at the end with the Elam Ending? In all seriousness, congrats to him. He’s been awesome.

The Johnson & Johnson vaccine has met the requirements for emergency use authorization and the final approval should come soon. This is great news, especially considering it's a one-shot vaccine. I believe J&J said they could produce 100 million doses by mid-summer. This speeds up the road to herd immunity considerably. Based on this vaccine's efficacy against moderate to severe effects (66%), it might be recommended for lower risk people (healthy 16-65 year-olds). Just a guess, but if we get to a point where there's enough vaccines to pick and choose who gets what, it seems to make sense.

Vaughn never was going to be traded anyway. Teams very rarely trade a top5 overall pick before he reaches the majors unless he flops in the minors and just gets dumped. Sure if the Indians would have offered Justin Bieber maybe the sox would have done it but that never was realistic. In the large majority of cases such a high pick will reach the majors for the club that drafted him unless he is very bad in the minors.

*Too Stop the act. It's old and transparent. The more you say this the more obvious it is you just can't handle the argument in the first place. Only reason to respond with garbage like this is to be an asshole. You're weak. (And what I'm saying is pretty well established, anyway)

Brilliant words by Branch. Still...it seems like the 2013-16 Sox were the team counting on luck...Sale and Quintana and if we can just make the playoffs we could make a run. The 2021 team has been built methodically and the off season seemed to be a part of the plan. I like where the team is at and you know who else is counting on a little luck? The Dodgers...for ten years they've had one of the highest payrolls, one of the best teams in baseball and one of the best farm clubs...last 8 years averaging 98 wins, went to the playoffs 8 times and won one world series. You are right that we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves...but I also think it's fun to dream a bit. Dynasties rarely happen but it's every fan's dream. That's why I pooh pooh adding Musgrove or Teheran or Brantley or Cruz...the team as constructed should make the playoffs and none of those guys is going to make them a can't lose team...but a breakthrough by Cease...and Vaughn...and Madrigal...and Kopeck...could boost us from good team to legendary. When legendary is still a possible outcome I think you try to play that hand to see if it can happen.

Much more at the link.

I find you to be one of the reasoned voices on here...so I guess I'm surprised at your seeming anger at the off season. Lynn was the best pitcher that changed hands in the AL this offseason...Hendricks is a great upgrade...Tony LaRussa is almost certainly going to be better than Ricky. Eaton is a pro. Cespedes and Vera seem like exciting young additions. Vaughn instead of EE...Katz instead of Coop. And we are keeping a tight budget to go buy someone at the trade deadline...like I mentioned a second ago...how about Chris Sale??

Some links earlier in this thread, but: Pfizer and Moderna didn't have to go up against some of the vaccine-resistant strains that J&J, Novavax and others did in their trials. And either way, the J&J vaccines still show great efficacy at preventing hospitalization and death. *maybe* you still have a crappy week of COVID with the J&J vaccine that you wouldn't have gotten if you had one of the mRNA ones, but you'll live and you'll stay out of the hospital. If I were in your place, it'd take the first available.

The Padres’ made moves to attempt to beat the best team in baseball. The White Sox made moves to hopefully one year pass Minnesota in the worst division in baseball. Hahn may blow smoke up fans asses with talk of “multiple World Series championships”. It’s easy to talk the talk, time to bring in the pieces to walk the walk.

I'm not saying Cease was perfect. He was too wild. But again he's young. Plus, don't a lot of 4th starters do the same thing and are the same way? We shouldn't be happy with a 4th starter having a 4.01 ERA? For that we should think about junking him? I even heard one foolish comment on here that with him in the rotation we're going to miss Mat Latos!! But we're supposed to give Vaughn a blind chance?

Sounds like Giolito paid a visit to one of those Innovative Ketamine medical practices that are popping up around Chicago

Nice to name it after Hector Gomez.

Sounds like it's a hard curveball, Lucas.

Hopefully this isn't the the Ricky Vaughn Eliminator

Remember Gyroball mania...Downerball is going to the MOON!