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I’m surprised they got the ball out so quickly.

I truly believe Robert will be the best player in White Sox history.

We do NOT "overall still look like the same team as last year." Here's 10 reasons off the top. 1. Yoan Moncada is over Covid. He went from a 140 OPS+ to a 94 OPS+. Maybe he doesn't get all the way back to 2019. Maybe he's better than 2019. He's going to be a lot better than 2020. 2. Luis Robert, year 2. Sky is the limit for this player. He could be a top 10 player in MLB in 2 years. 3. Lance Lynn. Having a workhorse #3 starter is going to be huge. In 13 starts last year, he gave up 0 ER 2x, 1 ER 4x, 2 ER 3x, more than 3 ER 2x (both to Houston). If you take out his 2 Houston starts, his ERA would have been 1.875. 4. Andrew Vaughn will be better than Edwin Encarnacion. Probably a LOT better. 5. Adam Eaton will be better than Nomar Mazara 6. Liam Hendriks is better than Alex Colome. 7. Aaron Bummer should be healthy 8. Garrett Crochet will contribute in some capacity. 9. Michael Kopech will contribute in some capacity 10. Tony LaRussa is a HOF manager for a reason. Ricky Renteria never will be. As for going beyond winning the AL Central, the playoffs are always a bit of a crapshoot. Just ask the Dodgers how many WS rings they've won in a decade of dominance in the NL. The Sox can compete with any AL team in the playoffs. Our offense is as good or better than any other AL team, including the Yankees. Our starting pitching can compete, and our bullpen might be the best. Adam Eaton may be considered by many naysayers as the weakest link in our lineup, but he hit #2 for the World Series winning Nationals just 2 years ago. Lighten up a bit and enjoy the season. We even have great announcers to help us enjoy the ride!

I seem to be one of the few posters on Soxtalk who is gung ho and positive about the team. I just posted over at the Athletic something that came to me. Why am I so positive when so many Sox fans are so negative? I think it's because while the Sox have been wandering in the wilderness during the rebuild, I just tuned the team and MLB out. I have been a Sox fan since 1970 when I lived in the Chicago area, but I haven't lived in Illinois since 1976, so it's pretty easy for me to do that. Meanwhile, I'm guessing most of the fans who remain highly critical of the team have continued living through those painful years, and feel that team ownership and management owes them something for them having to endure those years. Is there something to that? For me, returning to the team as I did last year, all I see are good things and growth. Here are a few things that I really like (whether or not other Sox fans do). 1. The Sox have 9 players - tied with the Dodgers - on MLB's top 100 Players Right Now list. Only 4 of them are in their 30s, with Abreu 34. Lynn 33, and Grandal and Hendriks 32. 2. Of these 9 players, the young core is going to be here for 3 or more years. See my 3-5 year window article. Lance Lynn is only signed for one year, but could easily be extended. 3. Most of these 9 players are still improving -- Robert, Moncada, Giolito, Jimenez, Anderson. The other 4 should hang in there for another few years. 4. In addition to this top-100 core, the Sox are going to bring up three more young players with great upside - Andrew Vaughn, Michael Kopech, and Zack Collins. Some may think Collins doesn't belong on this list, but I think he just needs enough ML ABs to settle in and prove he'll be a very good offensive backup catcher and part-time lefty DH. Meanwhile, Vaughn and Kopech might join other Sox' players on that top 100 list soon. 5. The Sox also have a HOF manager, who has won far more games during the decades of integrated baseball than any other manager in history. He's won pennants and World Series with teams in both leagues. And he's bilingual. If he takes the Sox to the World Series and wins, he'll be the consensus best manager of all time. 6. I love the Sox new pitching coach Ethan Katz, and what I think he'll be able to do with the young Sox pitchers, especially Dylan Cease. 7. The Sox have one of the best, and perhaps the best, bullpens in baseball. This will help them win a lot of games, and will become of even more importance when the Sox make the playoffs. And that's without counting Garrett Crochet, the 100-mph man, who could be the ultimate bullpen weapon this year before he converts to being starter. 8. The Sox probably have the best offense in the AL. They can bash the ball with anyone. But they can do more than just bash. They have some great speed guys in Robert and Anderson, and some excellent bat control guys like Madrigal and Eaton. 9. The Sox have the reigning AL-MVP in Jose Abreu, who has won the RBI title the last two years. They have perhaps the best closer in baseball in Liam Hendriks. They have the 2019 batting title winner in Tim Anderson. 10. In Tim Anderson, the Sox have one of the best leadoff players in baseball. All he did in the short postseason was get 3 hits in each of his 3 games -- 9 hits overall. He is still getting better. He was the highest ranked Sox player in the Top 100, and he's probably underrated. 11. In Eloy Jimenez, the Sox have a budding superstar with the bat, who will probably take over Abreu's role in the middle of the lineup as Jose eventually ages out. He's also got a winning personality, keeping everyone uplifted and loose. He's smiling all the time. 12. In Lucas Giolito, the Sox have a big-game pitcher who rises to the occasion. He may not win the Cy Young (though he may), but I wouldn't be afraid to start him heads up with any Cy Young or other pitcher in baseball. I would consider us no worse than even in any matchup. 13. In Luis Robert, the Sox have a budding superstar. Who knows how good he'll become over the next few years. But it's going to be fun to watch. 14. The Sox went 14-0 against lefty starters last year. That should terrify opposing managers who will have to try to juggle their pitching staffs to avoid using lefty starters and relievers. The Sox are a young, hungry team who got a taste last year and now are ready to dominate. They have skillful and savvy vets to help lead them, several guys who have been on World Series teams, and a HOF manager who has seen it all and knows how to manage when the pressure is on. I'm really glad the Sox didn't go out and repeat the Encarnacion and Gonzalez mistakes, but instead decided to roll with young players who need to play to get them where they need to be by the postseason. I don't want to watch some dubious veteran with no future on the Sox take ABs away from a younger player who is expected to be part of the team's core for the next 5-6 years. I happen to really like the choices the Sox made in the offseason. I don't know if the Sox are going to win the AL Pennant or World Series, but I believe we're going to win the AL Central by a relatively comfortable margin. There may be ups and downs during the season, but I'm not going to freak out about it. I'm just going to enjoy the Sox this year.

The Sox can't extend EVERYBODY. That's just how it goes. I'm glad they're managing to extend a good chunk of their position players. They need to do their best at developing pitching, and then signing some proven veteran pitchers as FAs.

After three years we’ll only have Anderson, Eloy, Robert, Moncada, Vaughn, Madrigal, Cespedes, Cease, Kopech, Crochet, Kelly, Thompson, Vega, Bummer, Heuer and anybody like Giolito who may or may not be signed to an extension to build around. It’s almost like it ended before it even begun! Hopefully they all pan out because there is no way they will acquire another player over the next three years!

TONYS BOYS DONT QUIT

thanks for the play by play @reiks12

Yermin is about to make plenty of folks here eat some crow.

I agree with this sentiment. I can remember so many seasons when I had no hope since the team was an obvious non-contender. At least in 2021, there is plenty of room for hope. But the club still has questions, and these questions will only be answered as the season progresses. I am looking forward to this year, but an not going to get carried away and assume a World Series is in the immediate future. Yet, all in all, things are good and we can enjoy the season as we watch the team progress, or hopefully not, regress.

Let me put it this way. I am going to enjoy the White Sox this year, but I also am realistic. It is possible that key players regress from last year’s performances, that acquisitions do not live up to what they should be able to bring to this club and that injuries take a toll on the team and expose depth issues (which is why I thought more money spent on pitching and another bat would help and I can easily see them standing pat at the deadline). However, it is possible that the perfect storm I mention above does not happen, players like Vaughn, Cease and Kopech take the next step forward and flourish this year and the team wins 90+ games and a division title. I would call progress actually winning a series in the postseason this year and getting ready to win a World Series either this year or in the coming years. I think it is dangerous for people (not necessarily you) to not consider what could happen to negatively impact this team. I’m optimistic they will be competitive, but I also don’t have blinders on to the issues the team could face this year.

There's nothing groundbreaking in here, but I think a lot of people might find it interesting. There's a moment when Lynn & Keuchel are watching Crochet throw a bullpen which I found very cool.

I'm really curious to see what sort of mechanical changes Katz made with Cease. If Cease maintained his 2020 performance that would be a huge disappointment because he had a 6.36 FIP (80th out of 81 pitchers with 50 IP) and a 5.87 xFIP (79th). His LOB% was 81.7% (league avg is 74%). Hitters had a .238 BABIP despite being in the bottom 25% of the league in xSLG, xBA, Exit Velocity, and Hard Hit %. Essentially he got about as lucky as you could get last year. That said his stuff is filthy and he has so much room to improve and could do so very rapidly. He has the potential to be a star if he improves his command and it could easily happen this year. The projections for him all seem to believe that his K/9 will go back up and his walks will go down. I believe that too, but he needs to be a whole lot better this year. One reason I'm optimistic is that his splits when starting 1-0 vs 0-1 in 2020. After 1-0 (.310/.468/.643) vs AL avg of (.256/.357/.444) After 0-1 (.157/.229/.324) vs AL avg of (.219/.271/.361) Yes its a small sample size, but Cease is absolutely awful when he starts behind in the count and is pretty much elite after a first pitch strike. Getting ahead in the count is usually that last thing to develop for a young pitcher and hopefully this is the year he gets over that hump. Edit: I looked back through his splits and oh boy.. After 1-0 he has an xFIP of 8.70 and after 0-1 his xFIP is 3.63

It is so beyond exhausting and irritating that this apparently needs to be repeated over and over again. Some people just have blinders on and can't even entertain the idea that there are still a lot of potential issues. There seemingly is very little room with said fans for identifying, let alone discussing actual analytics that show real concern. Mainly the fact we overall still look like the same team as last year and ultimately that team failed, in a truncated season where there were numerous extra playoff spots. The biggest advantage they will have is a less competitive AL central. But surely those of you super optimistic fans know damn well you wouldn't be happy with merely winning a non competitive division, right?

8-9-1 of Eaton, Madrigal, Anderson sounds good to me.

I have a sneaky feeling Mendick ends up with around 250 PA this year and puts up around 1 WAR. Wonder if he's been working at 3B and even perhaps OF.

We suck. Haven’t even won all year.

Going to get my first shot on Thursday morning. Excited and worried since my heart and its health are very poor, we shall see what happens. I was skeptical of the vaccine because you know, the government and the history of black people and mass medicine in this country, but my grandparents who grew up not too far from Tuskegee decided to get the vaccine and got both their shots, so I'm doing the same.

Robert doubles off the wall in LF. 4-3.

Frank Thomas set a pretty high standard as a hitter, but it depends on how much you value defense and baserunning.

If we can add one of Greinke, Scherzer, Bundy, Gausman, McCullers, E.Rodriguez...or perhaps Salvador Perez in their walk years. https://www.mlb.com/news/players-in-walk-year-before-free-agency-in-2021?partnerId=zh-20210301-156906-MLB&qid=1026&bt_ee=Efpg%2FnAP74GfM%2B7J16JKmHtWj0FuTrNG2puuZpUCEi949h%2B4ZYHOh0mUfVqavQy7&bt_ts=1614602867953 Of course, everyone in baseball is monitoring the five stud SS’s along with Kris Bryant, particularly Story and J.Baez.

I see how that could be. All the old content is gone too. yea that stuff was fire

The message is not dissimilar

This sounds like a Trojan ad

perennial 30 hr/ 40 steal / gold glover 265-280 career BA, and a 5-6 WAR player every year. He hits his peak in 2024 and from 24-27 he will be a top 10 player in the league with a 7-9 WAR peak a season and at least one MVP. He should be a #2 hitter in most lineups, but because Anderson/Moncada, he probably settles in as either a #3 or #5 hitter. Personally I put him #1 and watch him turn into a Soriano 40hr fastball leadoff crusher. But this team is too talented for him to bat there.

If he never improves his approach at the plate then he's probably already bordering on his peak. I think he will end up being something like Alfonso Soriano if Soriano was a gold glove CF on the high end or pretty much the same as Byron Buxton on the low end. He will probably be about a 5 WAR player when healthy with a season or two where he might be a 7 WAR player. If he can drag his K to BB rate from nearly 4 to 1 to closer to 2 to 1 he has basically unlimited potential. I would not be surprised by multiple 8+ WAR seasons in his peak. That peak would likely arrive a bit later than the first scenario, maybe closer to the end of the decade than the beginning of it where he still has about 90% of his raw tools, but knows exactly how to attack pitches.

I'd be stunned if he doesn't hit 25 HRs. He was on pace for over 30 and he had a poor year and miserable ending.

I am not sure but La Russa has made comments he wants Crochet in the pen.

I think it's going to take some time for him to reach full potential. I am hoping for a .260/.335/.465 type season. I don't think reaching 25-30 HRs will be much of a struggle for him if he can stay healthy. The defense and baserunning will be spectacular. That is already probably a 5 WAR player.

Other - Vaughn Doubles - Robert

So sounds like this week gets a boost of 4 million J&J vaccines, then pretty much just moderna/pfizer next week, and then the last two weeks will get the majority of the promised 20 million. I know 1C was slated for April 1st, seems like they can hit it earlier, that includes a big group of workers still forced to go in office/place of work (restaurant workers, construction, etc). I'd hope by end of this week they consider moving that target up since it seems like at-risk conditions becomes a bit of a free for all with places not wanting to deal with actually verifying the condition (for obvious reasons).

At least 8 fWAR, but he's going going to need to markedly increase his walks to get there. https://www.fangraphs.com/players/mike-cameron/1070/stats?position=OF A better "floor" is probably Mike Cameron, although there's certainly a possibility he could still end up lower than that (which wouldn't be shameful, certainly). From age 26 through 31 (1999-2004), he put up TWO 5.3 seasons, TWO 5.5 seasons and his bottom was 3.6 and 3.8 in those six peak years. #3 is your best hitter, which is Abreu (for now), and will probably end up as Vaughn or perhaps Eloy Jimenez in the not-so-distant future. The other plausible argument is for non-Covid 2019 version of Moncada there (as your 3/4 "best" hitter). I actually prefer Moncada second, with Anderson 3rd and Robert 1st (longer term, 2022 and beyond), simply because I think Moncada will be quicker as the much more experienced player to develop the skill-set and patience for the #2 spot. Of course, TLR will be tempted to put either Eaton or Madrigal there, which will drive most SABES aficionados nuts, to quote Greg775. Going by the Mike Cameron example (and he spent a lot of his early career at the bottom of the line-up then leading off), you're looking at .249 MLB average (I'd bet on Robert being in the 260's or 270's) and .338/.444/.782, 107 wRC+ and 50.6 fWAR. That's the floor, a 750-800 ops hitter with even bigger power than Cameron, a career strikeout percentage around 25% (we'd love to get that in 2021), 11% walk percentage is probably at least 2-3% points too high, but he might start getting his share of walks like Tatis simply because pitchers are afraid to face him when behind in the count or don't want to risk a leadoff home run. During his peak, Cameron was a 20-30 homer guy, with 25 being around the average. I'd bet that Robert, with health, is closer to 30-35 homers per season, unless they do something really dramatic to suppress the baseball....and, even then Robert has about as much raw power as anyone in baseball not named Aaron Judge or Eloy Jimenez. Eric Davis' 1987-1989 run in Cincy...maxing out at a 7.1 fWAR but just two other career years over 4 (4.7 and 4.3) would be a "worst-case scenario" IMO. Or Devon White in 1991-1993, averaging around a 6 fWAR for the Blue Jays...reminiscent of his defensive prowess and the similar ability to glide to the ball and kick it into another gear that almost nobody possessed. According to Advanced Stats, Robert's flat out sprint speed "was only" 20th in MLB last year, but he seems even faster if you watch him compared to the rest of the players on the diamond on a daily basis, and it's an "easy" grace that few other players have showcased. While he has a REALLY strong arm, it's probably his weakest area (along with hitting for average) of the five tools that he has, but TLR keeps calling him a "six tool player" so I'll go along with that...the sixth tool being that "it" factor or extra gear that he can seemingly summon at will (like the massive tape measure breaking homer he hit in Game 3 against the A's).

2023. That’s all the thought I can muster into a response.

I'd love if this were the new Sunday alternate throwbacks

Thanks yes it’s on in Alabama! Go Sox, Roll Tide!!!

I feel really confident predicting that Kasper being with DJ is going to bring out the best version of DJ there's ever been. Also worth noting: that pic is a couple of cool cats. Nice.

We are likely in trouble if Ceases puts up another 6.36 FIP season. He needs to be substantially better next year than he was in 2020.

I think the one huge mistake, and he was a natural fit was not signing Q. That would have addressed the depth issue and Hahn should have stepped up and insisted they do so. Instead we pray for Rodon to stay healthy. But I will enjoy the show.

Who was it that said there wouldn't be baseball until like 2023? They seem to be "juuust a bit outside."

Agree. The poster is the perfect example of a fair-weather fan. He has stopped following the team for years and now is projecting everyone as a star. In reality, some of our stars will have off years and some will be injured more than they play ( similar to most teams). But this is an excellent roster and future additions could be a bonus. It remains to be seen how TLR will impact the team. Spring training is a time for optimism!!!! Lets hope by the All-Star game we are still feeling good about the team.

I have an old iPad that used to be my dad's; I've converted it into a standalone e-reader, and that's been about the best use of it

To be fair, this is VAfans 1000th thread saying the same thing. I find it odd that blind optimism over and over again is fine according to you but people on the other side of the spectrum nauseate you. If VAfan isn't a relative of Reinsdorf or Hahn then I'm envious of his only-optimistic view of life. It is a bit tiresome to read over and over again though.

Dude...you distort EVERY argument...and then come back with a pomposity that cannot be real. And yes, I have been cruel with my comments...and yes I then did reengage because you comment on every stream and I am inexperienced enough with message boards that I did not really understand what a troll is. As for "If I talk about apples and you immediately ignore..." is EXACTLY what you do. I try to put reasoned responses on here...I try to make my arguments and I respect even those who strongly disagree with me (honestly Collins is going to be great)...but 100% of the time you misrepresent what I and others are arguing, 100% of the time you insult the people you disagree with and 100% of the time you view the White Sox in the most negative way. I don't think you are real...I think you are a Cubs fan...or maybe a Yankees fan...that thinks it will be funny to come on a teams message board and wind people up. Thus my too often "too stupid to argue with" comments. I apologize. I won't say it again. Neither will I engage.

Some of your criticism is fair...we optimists should not be dunking on you pessimists...but it just can be exhausting on Soxtalk where it seems 3/4 of the regular posters are so negative...and yes not 100% negative...it generally starts out as "I'm excited about this team but..." and then we have to hear some tirade about Tony LaRussa being a drunk or JR being cheap. Why is that interesting reading? Giolito had an interview the other day where he said "Bummer has the best pitch in all of baseball". That's so interesting especially compared to the 1000 time we have to read where we are idiots for having traded Tatis. As for the "not spending money" constant concept...I get bored re-writing this but JR HAS had top 5 payrolls in the 2000's, 90's and 80's when the team was good. If the plan is to have a long window part of that is not handing out bad or un-necessary contracts. Dodgers and Yankees can get away with that...but being the second, and somewhat unloved, team in a market is always going to make that hard. If you think spending money is the way to win...the Phillies, Rockies, Angels, Mets, Giants etc would like to say hello. You win by talent evaluation...which I'm pretty pleased at right now (and was very unhappy with for decades before). You sustain winning by sensible budgeting. Right now we are in a great position to be vultures...when the Brewers season crashes...ask them about Yelich. When the Bosox season crashes go after Sale. When the Phillies season crashes go after Harper or Wheeler. Right now the Padres have $100 million committed in 2022 to four guys that are in their 30's. I'm ok watching this play out.

“Meanwhile, I'm guessing most of the fans who remain highly critical of the team have continued living through those painful years, and feel that team ownership and management owes them something for them having to endure those years. Is there something to that? For me, returning to the team as I did last year, all I see are good things and growth. Here are a few things that I really like (whether or not other Sox fans do)...” I can just imagine every loss bring blamed on TLR, just like previously with Renteria...but it’s going to be even more polarized. Because lots of fans who have been dormant for the better part of a decade are going to come back to the fold. Expectations are high...the most interest/excitement in fifteen years now since the 2006 team. That’s half a lifetime for quite a few posters here, or at least covering high school through mid to late 30’s. Many posters have left the bachelor lifestyle behind and now rank the Sox in their list of priorities well behind family, friends, work and Covid concerns. Personally, I tried to find other reasons to follow baseball (see Puig or Tatis)..but still followed most of the games on a daily basis until that mid 2016 collapse up to the Moncada debut and then Kopech in 2018 and in and out through 2019. What doesn’t sit too well with me is judging other Sox fans when you deliberately avoided following them for so long. You can argue or assert you’re not judging or preaching or carrying JR’s water or seeing everything White Sox through rose-colored glasses...but you can’t suddenly reappear and suddenly anoint Mr. Collins as a potential everyday player without having watched his at-bats the last three seasons. That will not be well received, certainly. So this relentless, new thread each day or even multiple threads cajoling everyone into being more optimistic are just going to start a war after every loss. If the White Sox were running a $140-150 million payroll out there for Opening Day, I might be convinced they actually were aiming to win a World Series, or at least advance in the playoffs or even to the ALCS. The Royals went from 20th to 17th to 9th in MLB Opening Day payroll from 2014-2016, but they at least set a new franchise high every year from 2013 through 2017, increasing for five consecutive years. The Cubs went from 19th to 13th all the way up to $184.5 million at the start of the 2016 World Series with the Indians around $95 million. The odds of teams not in the Top 12 payrolls advancing in the playoffs over the last four seasons is basically limited to the Rays and A’s over the White Sox. 90% of the frustration is that unwillingness even in the second year of the competitive window to spend at least in that $140-150 million range....it’s even harder to take when you see the Padres spending $162 million with the best team with the deepest pockets the team in front. It feels like if we were in the NL West we would simply aspire to 3rd place and maybe a wild card, but that would be the extent of it. And that self-satisfaction without having really accomplished anything yet is pretty galling. We had the division and coughed it all away the last two weeks...and the main reason we were there was beating up on the worst teams in baseball, particularly the Royals, Tigers...we only went 10-10 versus the relatively weak NL Central, too. We were 7-13 against Cleve and Minnesota, but 18-2 against Detroit and KC. 17-23 is closer to where we really were against the majority of MLB, but the unbalanced schedule and 16 team playoff field saved us.

Same team as last year? I couldn’t disagree more. Our DH last year hit .153. Vaughn will hit 100 points higher at a minimum. Our right fielder hit one home run and batted less than .220 if I recall. Eaton will do better than that. Robert being a year older and more experience will help. Moncada not having covid, Lynn as 3rd starter huge improvement. Marshal, Kopeck, Crochet, Bummer and Hendricks looks like a lethal bullpen. I’m not embarrassed to say I’m pumped and this Sox team should be as good as anyone in baseball. This boards negitivity comes from the idiot talk of trading Vaughn, Madrigal and Crochet just for the sake of a trade. Talk about beyond exhausting and irritating and just plain moronic. And oh by the way we had Renteria as a manager. Larussa HUGE improvement there as well. Mic drop

We have an all star at every position but RF for the next 5 years. And in some cases, arguably the best player in the league at said position. This is going to be an absolute juggernaut the likes the league has never seen before.