wrathofhahn

There are definite concerns about Rutherford I'm not discounting that. All I'm saying is to me the numbers he is putting up as a 21 year old in high A ball is much more impressive then the numbers put up by a bunch of 24 year olds with terrible plate discipline.

Whether you for the rebuild or not isn't really material at this point. It's happened. The question is how far we continue the process my contention is all along that we continue that a proper rebuild takes at least three years. The Cubs managed in three with Epstein. The Astros took four. That is sort of the bench mark. Right now we are in year two of that process. The question I'd pose is will we be competitive next year if we sign Machado? I mean he's tearing the cover off the ball for the Orioles and whats their record. The MLB isn't the NBA there is no guy whose going to come in and sort of single handily turn around the club. Other people say well signing Machado doesn't mean we have to be competitive immediately. Come on. Signing Machado starts the clock and forces us to be looking at the nearterm rather then the longterm. I'm not ready to commit to that at this point. Like I said we are only in year two of the process and honestly we don't know the timetable we are hoping for 2020 as the best case scenario (also mentioned by Hahn) but it maybe longer if the first wave disappoints. We just don't know. I think at this point we need to see it through and if we aren't then we better be damn sure we have enough moving forward to build a competitive roster because there are no doovers here. The clock and service time of these guys gives us a window if we screw it up then they are guys we will be talking about in 2022-2023 about moving and starting yet another rebuild. I'd rather it be done right the first time.

One thing Davidson hitting does is make it easier to move Abreu. If Davidson continues to mash and obviously he can play the field then it makes sense to put him at 1B since he's under control till 2023. Abreu on the otherhand only has two years.

I know Rutherford is sort of a guy whose on the backburner but he deserves an honorable mention. He's tearing the cover off the ball. Blackmon is a 24 year old in A ball. Booker is a 24 year old in high A ball I mean comeon they are ancient for their levels.

I mean when someone loses command and velocity of their fastball like this it's usually an arm issue. Not always of course some guys just lose their stuff and command at the same time but more often then not you see a drop off like this and the next thing you know he's on the DL

With a BB/9 of 8.55?

Particularly the velocity spring training we were told he regained most of his stuff and was sitting at 93-95 MPH again. Instead he's lost so far an average of over 1.3 MPH off his fastball in 2017 and 2.2 MPH since 2016. He's barely hitting 90's most nights. Is there something wrong with his arm?

I'd be open to playing Garcia back in CF then having Avi and Nick as our corner guys. Problem is they aren't healthy either. Engel is one lucky SOB. He once again basically gets the CF job because he's the only man still standing.

This is what I was talking about in the thread earlier sure we are way ahead of schedule due to the trades but expecting a full rebuild to happen in 2 years is beyond optimistic. It took Epstein three years and the Astros four to do theirs. People have unrealistic expectations of how long this is going to take. It's going to take at least another two years possibly three and that is only if Hahn continues to make all the right moves and we don't have any serious setbacks.

It really depends on how the season plays out and who needs a 1B/DH. For example last year we did a good job playing the Yanks and Redsox off each other ultimately convincing them to take on Robertsons entire deal along with Frazier for two good prospects.

Agreed my position is get as many prospects as you can so if a couple flame out which they will we are still in a good position. That means for me this year we sell off the rest of our remaining assets. Abreu. Avi. Jones. Soria. I still hope we can get one more big package with what we have left. The other benefit of moving them now is our contention window is 2020 like you said so even if these prospects are blocked and never play for us they still can be moved for cost controlled guys in 2020 at positions of need. I'm not sure the same can be said for Abreu once he signs an extension or Avi who will both be signed at that point to new deals and two years. So the time is nigh to make a move assuming the standard things they are playing well, there is a market for them, they get a good offer, etc.

I mean I think he continues at least September. Not high on him at all never was but the only guy sort of ready is Tilson and he's stinking it up in minor league ball. Cordell would be the guy if he was healthy.

I hope not. It's way too early to be thinking about Manchado

I think you do that by looking at the deals he pulled off last year. The Sale trade. The Q deal. The Eaton deal. The Robertson trade. Even the Soria deal this offseason was good work. I mean those deals should build trust and I'm confident that if/when we sell Abreu and Avi Hahn will be able to maximize what we get back. Once we come out of the rebuild whether these are the guys to lead us into contention well that is an open question but they've done really good work on the rebuild we are much farther along then most teams year 1 in a rebuild. They sort of should have everyones complete confidence to at least continue the process.

Honestly people who are saying this team is bad what can be done to fix this mess don't understand this team was meant to be bad and it will only get worse. Rebuilds don't happen in a year and no we shouldn't be going after Manchado next year. If you don't trust the process and the rebuild that's fine but dear god give it more then a year before trying to pull the plug.

Nothing continue to rebuild. People thinking you can build rome in a day were fools this will be a multi-year rebuild last year was year one we'll see where things are at in 2020. The only thing that kind of sucks is none of the vet guys have any value right now. Abreu and both Garcias should be moved.

Blake Rutherford is having a nice early start to the year

Also it would be nice if you allowed us to have a list of themes to switch to personalize the site.

Would be nice if you relaxed the size limits a bit. 100K gif doesn't get you far

Thats awful

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 2, 2018 -> 10:46 AM) If Moustakas couldnt get 5 years and $60 million at age 29, LH, key position on the infield....what can Avi realistically expect two offseasons from now at age 28 (assuming he stays a minimum 3-4.5 war player)? What would/should/could Hahn be willing to offer, know he’ll probably be too low but just checking to see if he’ll bite without insulting him simultaneously? If he is a 3-4.5 WAR player he could get a top prospect at least top 75 maybe top 50. It's all about timing if a team needs an OF and he's there they'll pay. He'll the cubs last year gave up a top 100 prospect for Avila and a LHP.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 2, 2018 -> 07:32 AM) Blake Rutherford is the poor man's Ryan Sweeney. His scouting report was David Justice we'll see he is still super young.

QUOTE (ChiSoxJon @ Apr 1, 2018 -> 09:45 PM) It's still early but that doesn't surprise me It's okay, I just hope we get a MLer outta it Rutherford isn't projecting too well, Clarkin hopefully can be a backend guy one day and hopefully Polo can be a 4thOF Yeah Rutherford had a down year but he's still plenty young enough it's his advanced approach at the plate that sort of makes you believe in him as a prospect even last year with the yankees he may have had a .733 OPS but he had a .281 AVG and .342 OBP the power will come. Clarksin actually has the potential to be a mid rotation guy so we'll see. Heading into 2017 he regained some life on his fastball according to scouting reports. He was sitting 90-92 and reaching 95. Yankees were excited. After more time off his velocity slipped into the 88-90. He just more then anything needs to put together a full season in the minors to build up his arm strength and stamina. He'll probably be on a limited inning count you would think. Meanwhile I know you aren't supposed to laugh but look at Robertson reaction

QUOTE (ron883 @ Apr 1, 2018 -> 09:54 PM) If his value gets high enough I hope they trade him for prospects Thats a no for me he's until control til 2023 if the change is real (big if) then he's a guy you keep.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Apr 1, 2018 -> 10:56 PM) Amen. Glad to see a lot of people coming to their senses on here. Avi and Abreu must be a part of this team when it hits contention mode. Cause Robert and Eloy are coming before long. And maybe Rutherford. People want the unknown. They are turned off by known commodities. It's more people would rather the resources directed elsewhere. It isn't just Robert. Eloy and Rutherford either. Cordell and Tilson are down there. Basabe and Adolfo are good prospects. Why not use Avi to get prospects which could fill holes elsewhere? We don't have enough playing time. It also depends a ton Avi. If he develops into an elite hitter that changes the calcus but if he's just good well odds are at least one of the guys I mentioned will develop into a good hitter too. Unlike Avi they'll be cheap and under control. As far as 1B and Abreu goes he's the leader but before they keep him we should have at least an idea of what his market demands are and whether he'd be willing to do an extension because 1B/DH types aren't getting the money they used to nor do they have a ton of value in trades. If he's reasonable bring him back but if he wants a huge extension it's time to move on.