Sarava

I think Conforto is more boom or bust. If he repeats his 2021 or is even close to that level, then it's going to look like an awfully dumb signing. But if he returns to a few years ago, he would be a better addition than Bryant. Where with Kris Bryant - we know what we're going to get. He's not what he was 5 years ago, but he has versatility and adds punch to the Sox lineup. Defensively him and Conforto might be a wash in RF. And I don't know that Bryant has a huge market out there for him. All we hear is Seattle wants him. but does he really want to go to Seattle? Moneywise, we'll see what Kris gets. Remember when he was supposed to be the first 400 mil guy? He will be lucky to get 100 now.

To me Bryant is a better option than Conforto or Castellanos - but I realize there's been no smoke there and it's not happening.

Sad to hear this. RIP.

I'll go with March 5th. They'd still get their full season and expanded playoffs in.

Yep. Tanking needs to end in all professional sports. It plagues pretty much all of our sports right now. Leagues need to stop rewarding failure to the degree that they currently do.

Yep. Both sides are sleezy and would be more than happy to screw over the fans to improve their position in this fight. I find it weird seeing most of you all taking one side or the other.

As much as I like Lance Lynn, and think he will be a huge part of the Sox hopefully winning the division in 2022. His playoff track record is very mediocre, and it's not just a few games. And his performances against Houston are even worse. We probably need to assume the Sox will have to go through the Astros to get to the World Series. That is one of the main reasons I want a TOR starter.

Yeah that would be fine. I think a good starter will cost more than you suspected in the other thread. I don't think a quantity package will get you Bassitt. You're probably not going to get a fringe TOR starter (even with only 1 year left of control) without parting with Vaughn.

My only concern is - does signing Conforto pretty much cap the money Jerry will spend on this team? Because I doubt this team's starting staff is good enough to win a World Series. Unless people think Kopech is going to immediately blossom in to a TOR starter?

Bad defensive teams usually don't win the World Series. If you saddle our pitching staff with Eloy in left and Vaughn in right, that's giving a lot to opposing offenses. And heck, if that's the approach, then you may as well just sign Castellanos for RF and load up the offense as much as possible.

I assumed when they picked up the option that they had some offers on the table. So I had your point of view originally. But now I'm nervous about it. Did they overplay their hand? Or did they pick up the option to save face and avoid admitting what a stupid trade it was? I'm not sure now. But I do feel confident that it's tieing up dollars that could be used elsewhere on the team, which sucks.

I mean, sure. But why on earth do you think the A's would do that deal?

I can't stand anyone that abuses women. It disgusts me that the Hawks still associate with Bobby Hull. But we've got nothing here other than he enjoy weird consensual sex. I can't compare that to wife beaters unless we get some hard evidence or a conviction. They won't even go to trial on this, let alone convict him. That tells me this is likely a bunch of crap. How many people wanted Patrick Kane run out of town when those (false) rape accusations were out there?

He's definitely weird, but I wouldn't have a problem with the Sox acquiring him under certain circumstances.

That might depend on whether the team stays or flees if you don't finance the stadium. Didn't Comiskey cost the state of illinois $137 mil? Knowing the alternative was the Sox moving to Tampa, dont you think the Sox have brought more to the state and city than $137 mil over the last 30+years? I suspect it's paid for itself 10x over. Even if the state was too dumb to pay off the actual debt. That's a whole nother story.

Neither side is going to budge much until we're at a point of serious chance of major cancellations. We're not there yet and honestly, we're not even close to that point yet. Both sides are trying to bluff the other side in to thinking they will hold their line even if it misses half the season or all the season. They'll both cave when the time comes. If the season starts a little bit late, who cares.

Bummer. I'm going to need to find myself a new avatar.

Well since the Sox rarely hit on and develop draft picks well, that's ok, eh?

Let's hope this isn't the Sox plan

Were you expecting the Sox to be the 27 Yankees and breeze to multiple championships? Why would a disappointing season break you?

I'm 50, so I'm moving in to the old man's club. I joined Soxtalk around the start of the rebuild. I used to post on the White Sox official message board until they discontinued that. And I just never heard of Soxtalk. I used to wonder why there wasn't a good Sox message board.

Eh, you had a better argument with the Royals actually. But they're a small market team. The Braves only had 3 down years and never loss more than 95 games. They weren't even close to what the Sox, Cubs, Phillies, Tigers and others did.

I think the Astros and Cubs were blatant tankers that clearly worked. I'm not sure I would include the Braves or Royals in there. And there's many others where it hasn't worked out obviously. But I'll put it another way to show the money that is pocketed or saved. Let's go back to Rick Hahn's famous quote: "The money will be spent." Now, he actually has some Sox fans tricked in to thinking they did spend that money. Obviously they didn't. They haven't even brought their payroll up to where a Chicago payroll should be, let me alone spend the money that was hoarded over the last 5-6 years. I just went through the team payroll since 2016 - the year they officially started to tank/rebuild. What would one say is a fair expectation for the Sox payroll - 10th in baseball? Despite how they are often operated as a small market, this is one of the premier markets in baseball and the payroll ideally could reflect that. Here's 2016 and onward, comparing the Sox payroll to the 10th payroll in baseball, and highlighting the net difference in each season: 2016 - Sox payroll 115.9 mil, 10th team payroll 147.9 mil. Savings of 32 mil 2017 - Sox payroll 109.5 mil, 10th team payroll 162.3 mil. Savings of 52.8 mil 2018 - Sox payroll 72.1 mil, 10th team payroll 161.0 mil. Savings of 89.9 mil 2019 - Sox payroll 91.3 mil, 10th team payroll 159.6 mil. Savings of 68.3 mil 2020 - Sox payroll 53.6 mil, 10th team payroll 73.2 mil. Savings of 19.6 mil 2021 - Sox payroll 140.9 mil, 10th team payroll 171.4 mil. Savings of 30.5 mil Numbers were gathered from sites I googles for team payrolls. The Sox payroll over these years has come to a difference of - 293.1 million from the 10th payrolls in baseball. That's a pretty big incentive to tank/rebuild and draft positioning isn't going to stop that. At least from owners driven more by profits than winning a World Series.

I think there's more to tanking that just draft position. I hate to sound cynical - but does anyone think a lightbulb went off in some owner's heads when they saw some teams starting to tank, and the fans not only accepted it, but in many cases (like here in Chicago for both teams) actually embraced it? They literally can have their cake and eat it to. They still collect the big tv dollars, and they drop 50+ mil off their payroll. Or more. Who wouldn't want a free 50 million dollars?

I'm not a fan of this. My idea all along has been to randomize all non playoff teams in a lottery and where you come up, you come up. The worst team could pick 1st, 9th, 14th, 2nd, etc....same with the best team to miss the playoffs. That takes the incentive away from trying to be bad.