Soxsi75

Agreed!! Was thinking the exact same thing!!

You saying there aren't any other options?

Hate that rule of "not having options" because of reasons like this, but I guess it is what it is. So have to go with my second option I mentioned. He can only pitch in games we have no chance to win. Mop up when we're down 5 runs. He shouldn't be out there when we have ANY kind of lead or if the game is close.

Not to rain on the parade of the fact that we won last night or that we're playing well right now, but Marshall needs to be sent down. He doesn't have command of anything he's throwing right now and last night proved he can't even be trusted to pitch with an eight run lead. If he goes down, maybe he can find himself again at Charlotte. At least the minor leagues have started back up again with real competition instead of just the "Schaumburg alternative site," which truly was nothing more than scrimmaging. But he can't be trusted with anything. If he stays up, the only games or situations he should be allowed to pitch should be games we don't have any chance of winning.

I don't think you trade or get rid of any of them. Yeah, when Eloy comes back Mercedes is going to lose at bat's. But you keep him here for depth. Think we've been taught the importance of depth right now, with Eloy and Robert out and we end up having to give Billy Hamilton a start because someone needs a day off, when Hamilton not only is a poor hitter, he flat out looks like he's completely INCAPABLE of getting a hit off major league pitching. I know you can only have so many DH's/1st baseman/outfielder types on your roster. But you find a roster spot. Why not send a pitcher down? Our pitching is good enough we don't need 13 pitchers. We don't need a Stiever or a McRae taking up a roster spot.

"In my opinion you are rushing to judgment on Vaughn and assuming he can't or telling us what the end verdict should be." Have to disagree with you. I didn't say, what you are saying I said, at all. You said you aren't judging the first part of my statement. OK, we got that established. The part you have a problem with, is when I said "If he can't, then this is a ridiculous experiment. Because this isn't a developmental league." My key words are, IF HE CAN'T! OK, he's proven he can. And so since he's proven he can, I agree with you. No one else should be playing left except him. Sorry man, sounds to me like you're trying to throw it in my face with an "I told you so" since I questioned whether he could play left before the season, which I admitted I did, but didn't everybody? He'd never played there before. I admit that I'm glad my original concern was unfounded, and that truly Vaughn's play in left field has been one of the few pleasant surprises to what very quickly appears to be heading for a very disappointing season.

I agree it does seem to be working. But I hope you aren't really trying to throw something in my face here.......because if you are, review what I first said. A key question is this. Can he make EVERY play a normal left fielder will make. So far he has and I imagine he will continue to.

Follow your last part. "pen realize their potential." That's really what needs to happen to save this year.

Well, in a way, I both agree and disagree with you at the same time. I wasn't happy with the "tanking" to begin with. I believe you play to win EVERY year. How much tanking do the Yankees do? I was never a fan of it because of exactly what's happened. You never know what's going to happen in the future. Stripping your team so you can become good in 5 years I've never agreed with. Because there's no guarantee of anything. You can preach future, future, future, but the future is something that never comes. So in the pretense you are spot on. Problem is, I don't think Hahn's going to do what you're saying. What evidence says he will? We lowballed Machado in the "bidding" for him. (Not saying they should have signed him, but just using an example of not going all out.) This off season I really felt they gave it a "this is good enough" approach. And maybe it would have been........but then Jimenez and Robert are both out all year. Now they're caught with their pants down. So I'm just saying to accept this as a developmental year because I'm not sure anything can or will happen. And when it doesn't, I'll just be pissed off all summer, if I don't take this attitude. Like I said in another post on here. In the future when this year is looked back on, it will be remembered as a year we didn't do/spend enough in the offseason, we overrated our bullpen, and a couple of indescribably catastrophic injuries. The only one of those three factors that can change is the overrating of the bullpen. Maybe they can turn it around and be the bullpen they were hyped to be? That's the only thing that can save this year.

I think the faster everyone accepts what you just said will make this incredibly catastrophic year just that much easier to deal with.

That's right! Who will Texas want in return? Plus, Texas has allowed 100% capacity so they won't cry poor and just dump Gallo. I'm afraid "big trades" might not realistically be an option for the White Sox. This isn't like going to the grocery store and buying a gallon of milk. There isn't an "all star outfield" aisle. We didn't do/spend enough in the off season, we overrated our bullpen, and we've had a couple of catastrophic injuries. That's how history will assess this team when it's all said and done. Unless our bullpen suddenly becomes as dominant as they thought it would be.

I'd say you are correct.

Exactly. Well put

Maybe not, but what about when Garcia needs a day off? Inciarte is better than Billy Hamilton. We need some quantity now because Billy Hamilton cannot be having ANY at bats. As in ZERO.

You might have some good points there.

And their bullpen. We were supposed to have a dominant bullpen. We haven't. They have to start to be. We've lost 6 games already after either having the lead or tied in the 8th inning or later. And in another game, Hendricks blew a save in a game we eventually won. Great bullpens have gone all year without losing 6 games like this and we did it in a month. No more. Enough blowing late inning leads. If they can become the dominant bullpen we were supposed to be, we might be all right. If we don't, we wouldn't have gone anywhere even with Jimenez and Robert.

Engel's not back for at least 3 weeks. What about until then? Hamilton should have ZERO, repeat ZERO at bats for a team still hoping to win. They have no choice but to go outside the organization for help. Or just chuck the season if they don't.

It's winnable because Cleveland let it be. Hate to say it, but if Cleveland wanted the division it would have been theirs. If they hadn't given away Clevinger and Lindor and let Santana walk, they'd have been the best team in the division, with us losing Jimenez and now possibly Robert. But since Cleveland did what they did, we can still hang around? Let's hope Robert isn't gone too long.

You are 500,000% correct my friend!!!

Yes!! I DID see that!! It was one of the things I was thinking about when I wrote what I wrote on this thread. Didn't think about it being his back though, but now that you mention it here, what you say does make perfect sense!!

I worry about his legs too. That really might be his biggest problem. Never heard this mentioned before, but this is a legit observation. I think sometimes, he's TOO muscular. Especially in his lower body. I know all the talk of athletes being "bigger and stronger than ever before." And that statement is always used in a positive sense. But maybe it can be negative as well. Because it seems like every time he makes a strong start and stop around the bases, runs hard down the first base line, or does anything strenuous with his legs, he acts like he's pulled a hamstring. And someone mentioned about him not stealing bases on here. I don't even want him even attempting a stolen base with the way he acts after doing anything with his legs. He even looks uncomfortable with his legs swinging the bat sometimes. And if his legs are bothering him, that will affect his hitting as well.

I certainly owe him an apology!! I called him a complete waste of space on here!! And I sure am glad I was wrong!!!

I sure am glad I was wrong!!!

You're right....

I know it's early.....and other factors like at times bad defensive play such as in the opener have contributed.....but this is now already the third game we've lost after leading in the 8th inning or later and the seasons barely over a week old. Not to mention that ridiculous meltdown by Foster in the 6th inning of the last Seattle game with a 4-1 lead.