NWINFan

This is one thing I am confident about. Many fans won't like what the Sox are doing, and the franchise circling the wagons in response to the backlash. As I have said in other posts, I don't expect the team to merely throw money at the situation. But the club can't expect the fans to stay in love with the rebuild. We're just getting done with a decade with no playoff appearances. There has to be more than just promises. I don't follow what Hahn says or tweets. I only hope they do something in the offseason to address problems on the field. If they don't sign an expensive free agent, fine. Just do something.

If not spending really big, at least be creative. I am not going to be thrilled with some deal for a prospect that won't be ready for the majors until 2022 at the earliest. No more tanking. I don't give a damn about the draft anymore. If the Sox have another losing season in 2020, that will be eight in a row. If I am right, that would tie the franchise record for most consecutive losing seasons. I don't think that asking for a team to play a few games over .500 is all that much to ask. And please, no more Hector Santiago. I have nothing against the guy but he doesn't belong on a major league roster much less in the starting rotation.

I agree with this. By now the team knows the progress of the rebuild. Some pieces are there, and it is time to move on. Money needs to be spent if they want to win, and there is no way around it. Sitting around waiting for more young players to develop is another example of insanity. At least one major move has to be made, or fans will wonder what this franchise really wants to be. A winning team or the Pirates?

It has reached the point for me that I really don't like the concept of "nothing to lose.'" Nothing to lose sounds weak because there isn't much on the roster. There is nothing to see here.

This is the biggest drawback of a rebuild. Nothing the team does matters much until it at least goes over the .500 mark. We care about the team's future, but even the most loyal fan finds the club unwatchable at times. As I said in another post, the Sox were in no position to be active at the trade deadline. Why should anyone talk about them in that context?

One thing Harkness is right about is that constant movement of players back and forth from the minors. There just doesn't seem to be any plan; more desperation than a plan. It makes you wonder sometimes.

The Sox passed on Harper and Machado. If they pass on Cole, just who are they going to sign? Yes, some of these contracts are absurd, but they are becoming the going rate. Getting stubborn is will prove nothing.

I really don't see the point of this thread.

Cease decided to go after hitters after it was 4-0. I didn't see the rest of the game. Carson looked good after he hung the first pitch. Otherwise this was beyond boring baseball.

It is really no surprise that the Sox made no moves. That is the problem when you are tanking. You are not going to trade prospects and you have very little talent at the major league to dangle. Why should most teams want to deal with the White Sox? As far as next offseason goes, I will merely wait and see what happens. I don't have any expectations that the team will be all that aggressive. At this point, they should be, but that doesn't mean will follow through on that strategy. But if the FO doesn't do much, even the most loyal True Believers may stop being True Believers. Saying you're rebuilding doesn't cut it anymore.

I will believe this aggressive attitude when I see it. Hopefully the White Sox are fully aware that they have to be active this offseason. No more prospects.

I don't either. This reminds me of Guillen and his arguments with fans in 2011. It helped ruin his legacy. He'd probably regrets some of that stuff, or I would like to think he does. Now that the White Sox are trying to rebuild their team on the field, maybe they ought to try rebuilding their relationship with their fans. It has needed a rebuild for some time.

I was surprised to see a thread that was started as a response to Steve Stone turned into a debate about Lip. There are two things I know about him: there are few people who know more about White Sox history and he desperately wants the team to win. Negativity? Sometimes people mistake realism for negativity. I certainly don't agree with Lip on everything, but I have a good deal of respect for him. There are a great deal of fans who truly want to believe in the rebuild. Why? Because this is the first decade since the '70s that the Sox didn't make at least one playoff appearance. So, fans want to believe there is light at the end of the tunnel and the losing will be worth it. You can't blame anyone for hoping. But it gets difficult at times, especially when a pitcher gives up five runs on 14 pitches. And I don't have anything personal against the guy. He just doesn't belong on a major league roster. It was easy for Stone to lash at fans, but the losing started before the rebuild began. The 99-loss season in 2013 was due to neglect. In the end, Stone picked a wrong time to criticize fans. We are still in the tunnel. I hope the True Believers are right, but we still have a long way to go. A season a few games over .500 would help.

You're god damned right.

I realize even good teams have bad stretches. The 2005 team lost seven straight in August and came thisclose to blowing a 15-game lead. Good thing the Indians finally ran out of gas during the last week, or we might still be waiting for a World Series. I just tire of the excuses. Injuries. Rebuild. This team hasn't gone to the post-season in 11 going on 12 years. It has never won a wild card spot since the wild card was created a quarter-of-a-century ago. And the club just looked lifeless in Kansas City. Things may improve greatly, but nobody can predict when that will happen. That's not a good feeling.

I remember a headline in the Sun-Times some decades ago where it was considered news that the White Sox drew a little over 18,000 for a Sunday doubleheader. Owner John Allyn was beside himself with happiness. The White Sox lost that doubleheader to a second year expansion team and were never heard from again.

This game took me way back to 1970, another year the White Sox were "rebuilding." Baltimore was in town and they had the Robinsons, Paul Blair, Boog Powell and a great pitching staff. They would win the Series that year. Anyway, in this particular game, a White Sox center fielder named Buddy Bradford let a fly ball go off the end of his glove, and it went over the center field fence for a three-run homer. Baltimore won 18-2. This is what is called White Sox PTSD. Some say lopsided losses like this are no different than losing a tighter game. True, they count the same in the standings. But this has happened too often this season, and it is embarrassing. You still want to look like a major league team, even in defeat.

This and then some. There are times when the White Sox look good and provide some hope. But, there days like this one, when they don't look like a major league baseball team. And there are too many days like this one.

What is really important right now is an objective analysis of this rebuild and plans for moving the team forward. I don't want the FO to put on the rebuild autopilot and coast. At this point, it has to be known where the team is strong and where the team needs to improve. I don't have big expectations for 2020, but I want to see a competitive club and would like to see less of these lopsided losses. It would also help if the offense wouldn't strike out in double digits in games. Plainly, there has to be a sense of direction.

I am glad to see Stone take a different tact. I truly didn't understand the nature of his "house" tweet because I didn't see how it could have accomplished anything. And I think if he wants a civilized dialogue with fans, that is a good thing. He must remember that fans want to be reassured that the franchise is serious about building a winner. Any perception that the rebuild is a salary dump and not a rebuild does great harm to the team's credibility.

I agree, and I think Cease will be a good pitcher. He has the talent. I also think some fans are unrealistic. They believe some highly touted young player will come up and be great immediately. Most times that doesn't happen. That is what is tough about a rebuild. First, the prospect isn't ready for the big time. Then he has to learn on the job. One losing season follows another. And when the club already had a string of losing seasons before the rebuild, this is tough to take. You just don't know when a young player will put it together, if he ever does. I think Cease will. When? Your guess is as good as mine.

Regarding the offseason: I don't advocate the team merely throwing money at the problem. We all know some expensive signings don't work out. At the very least, I'd like to see several moves that just improve the team. It would help in the rebuild process if the Sox can get under 90 losses. It would also help if the club is more competitive on the field even in defeat. Some of the rebuild aspects are working, but the team still needs a veteran presence. Most importantly, fans need to feel the franchise truly wants to win in a significant way.

That's not a bad suggestion. A lot of anger here. Maybe we should take it on Stone. The thread's title suggest Sox fans need a dose of reality. I think the White Sox organization needs a dose of reality. Even the biggest defenders of the rebuild will be angry if things keep going like they are now. Now, go out and sign someone this offseason.

If not signing free agents is a continuing trend, then the White Sox are in a perpetual rebuild. I like the idea of building from within, but you won't win in the long run with prospects only. Maybe this is why Stone went on his rant. He was preparing us for the worst and wanting to fight any fan backlash. I realize it is easy for fans to say that JR needs to open his wallet. But we are not in control of baseball economics. No matter how many times we attend games, the real money doesn't come from us. So we have to sit on the sidelines and hope the rebuild works while the expensive free agents go elsewhere. Reminds me of the late 70's and Bill Veeck.

It was a disaster, and I don't think the White Sox or many others realize what damage the 1994 strike did to the team. I think many people in MLB merely assumed fans would return after the strike. That didn't happen, and I think the Sox were hurt much more than other teams. In January 1995, the White Sox took out an ad in the Trib and Sun-Times, asking for fans to write them concerning the strike. The ad stated fans could say anything, even if they wanted to tell the team "to go to blazes." I wrote and received a polite reply. It would have been interesting to see whatever effect the letters had. I sent a letter through the regular mail to Stone. I did all I could to be polite, even saying my letter was for "one gentleman to another." Of course, I have no idea what he thought of it. I did reference the bad old days of the 1990s.