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South Side Hit Men

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Posts posted by South Side Hit Men

    Will the Sox do the right thing when Eloy comes back and move Yoan to 2B?

    in Pale Hose Talk

    Posted

    2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

    Probably a little too early to declare Machado finished... unless you just throw out his entire career, especially 2022, up until now. 

    Based only on 2023, sure. 

    This list represents estimates of a far generous expected future value vs. remaining contract payments.

    The Padres vastly overpaid. The only question is will it be by $50M, $150M, $200M, $250M or $300M.

    Machado is in his Age 30 season, and will be paid the following:

    • $17.1M 2023 (30), 2024 (31) & 2025 (32)
    • $25.1M 2026 (33)
    • $39.1M 2027 (34), 2028 (35), 2029 (36), 2030 (37), 2031 (38), 2032 (39), 2033 (40)

     

    Fire Rick Hahn

    in Pale Hose Talk

    Posted

    53 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

    Wow, some interesting reading there!

    Not to get off the baseball and White Sox discussion, but since this is about all 5 teams in Chicago GM history, I noticed a few ironic and humorous side notes from that top 77 GM's :

    1. #61 - Jim Finks - Bears 1974-1982

    It was Jim Finks who was responsible for putting the great '85 Bears Super Bowl team together

    Finks brought in the following players on that 1985 Super Bowl championship team roster:

    Walter Payton - HOF
    Dan Hampton - HOF
    Mike Singletary - HOF
    Otis Wilson 
    Steve McMichael
    Mike Richardson
    Dave Duerson 
    Keith Van Horne
    Jay Hilgenberg
    Kurt Becker
    Jim McMahon
    Emery Moorehead
    Gary Fencik
    Matt Suhey
    Ken Margerum
    Dennis Gentry
    Maury Buford

    2. #63 - Dale Tallon 2005-2009

    It was Tallon who brought in the initial great Blackhawk players that won that first Stanley Cup title in 2010.

    Tallon brought in the following players all on that first of three Stanley Cup titles: 

    Jonathan Toews
    Patrick Kane
    Marian Hossa
    Patrick Sharp
    Niklas Hjalmarsson
    Brent Sopel
    Jordan Hendry
    Andrew Ladd
    Kris Versteeg
    Cristobal Huet
    Brian Campbell
    Ben Eager
    Tomas Kopecky

    3. #69 - Rod Thorn - 1978-1985

    Drafted Michael Jordan who is only the greatest NBA basketball player ever and probably greatest athlete of all time. I get why Thorn doesn't get much credit because he did luck into Jordan falling in his lap, when Portland made the dumbest draft pick blunder in NBA history and took Sam Bowie over Jordan at #2.

    4. # 77 - Ryan Poles 2022- 

    He might be last for now, but only because he inherited one of the worst rosters in the NFL. I know there are no guarantees going forward, but IMO from what Poles has done so far in the draft, trades and free agents signings, he could be moving up a lot higher in the next several years. At least that's what all Bears fans hope for.

    Solid observations. While compiling the lists, I learned quite a bit.

    Thought the story of the Cubs' most successful owner, Charles Murphy, was excellent.

    Wasn't surprised the Tribune had the longest stretch (entire 28 seasons) without a championship or runner up team.

    Didn't realize the Cardinals were as bad as they were. Still glad they played in Comiskey and won two championships. f*** the bears, they shouldn't be allowed to stay "Chicago" if they move to the suburbs. As pathetic as the "New York" football Giants and Jets, both of whom spent more time in East Rutherford, New Jersey than any other location.

    Will be interesting if Reinsdorf, McCaskey and/or Wirtz will finish their ownership below .500, all are at the precipice. 

    • Like 1

    Trading One Year Assets is Inevitable. Maybe even 2-yr

    in Pale Hose Talk

    Posted

    1 hour ago, SouthSideGeorgia said:

    So with the thought that we have the following potential one-year assets in SP Giolito, C Grandal (playing better), BP Lopez (past performance?) and BP Middleton (discovery)… and I will just mention the remaining one-year players with no value probably in SS/2B Andrus and IF Alberto. 
     

    And possible 2-yr assets in SS Tim Anderson, BP Hendriks, BP Graveman, SP Clevinger, and BP J. Kelly (improving).

    Sox maybe have SP, BP, SS, and C to trade with.

     

    Looking at the MLB contenders (minus the Central):

    Miami needs SP, C, 3B, maybe SS

    Arizona needs SP, 3B

    Dodgers need SS, maybe SP

    San Diego needs C

    Mets need SP

    Rangers need 3B, maybe SP (deGrom)

    Astros C, maybe SP

    Toronto needs Maybe SP

    Rays C maybe

     

    Jerry won’t trade with the Mets out of hatred toward Cohen, and perhaps Houston is also nixed. That said, he can dump a lot of salary with the rest. 

    (+/- MLB Trade Values)

    1. Benintendi (-$26.2M), Bummer (-$7.1M), Hendriks (+$3.2M), Anderson (+$28.1M) to the Dodgers.
    2. Grandal (-$5.5M) and Lopez ($2.4M) to Padres.
    3. Lynn (+$7.6M) to Blue Jays.
    4. Moncada (-$5.3M) and Giolito (+$20.8M) to Rangers.
    5. Eloy (+$11.3M) and Clevinger (-$0.7) to Marlins.
    6. Kelly (-$3.1M), Graveman (+$2.0M) to whoever.


    Think they’ll keep Cease and Robert unless Jerry wants to flip a double bird to White Sox fans and MLB.

    Will the Sox do the right thing when Eloy comes back and move Yoan to 2B?

    in Pale Hose Talk

    Posted

    1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

    The main point is they need a 3B for the next five years…it’s obviously not going to be Yoan Moncada.

    Any trade value is going to be mostly about simply offloading as much of his future salary as possible.

    Moncada would have offers, perhaps you send a portion of cash.

    Benintendi has the 17th worst contract value across The MLB per Trade Values. Hahn isn’t satisfied unless he makes things worse each and every year.

    1. Nationals Strasburg ($129.7M)
    2. Angels Rendon ($124.3M)
    3. Yankees Stanton ($101.7M)
    4. Rockies Bryant ($100.1M)
    5. Brewers Yelich ($90.4M)
    6. Padres Machado ($63.3M)
    7. Mariners Ray ($49.2M)
    8. Blue Jays Berrios ($41.1M)
    9. Nationals Corbin ($40.7M)
    10. Phillies Castellanos ($38.1M)
    11. Red Sox Story ($35.2M)
    12. Royals Perez ($34.6M)
    13. Atlanta Ozuna ($33.2M)
    14. Tigers Baez ($31.8M)
    15. Red Sox Devers ($27.3M)
    16. Tigers Cabrera ($26.6M)
    17. White Sox Benintendi ($26.2M)
    18. Marlins Garcia ($26.0M)
    19. Reds Votto ($25.9M)
    20. Yankees Hicks ($24.5M)

    Fire Rick Hahn

    in Pale Hose Talk

    Posted · Edited by South Side Hit Men

    Rick Hahn ranks 53rd among 77 Chicago General Managers across the four major sports. Both Hahn and the White Sox will continue to sink further baring a miraculous turnaround, as the standings below are through the end of last season.

    If Hahn continues for several more seasons, the White Sox stand a significant chance of falling below ,500 as a franchise, a sad state only suffered once (1948-1954 seasons, with 1950 the nadar at .493).

    Carter Hawkins, Kyle Davidson and Ryan Poles look to gain on Hahn with each and every new season.

    Three of the five current owners (McCaskey, Reinsdorf's Sox and Wirtz) are in danger of falling under .500 during their tenure if they continue to have seasons similar to their current / most recent seasons. Ricketts is back to under .500 after last season.

    Big Four Chicago Standings

    Chicago General Manager Standings *

    1. .734 47-17 Jerry Vainisi Bears (1983-1986) 1985
    2. .707 28-11-2 Ralph Brizzolara Bears (1942-1945) 1943 1942
    3. .680 314-139-34 George Halas Bears (1920-1941 & 1946-1962)  1921 1932 1933 1940 1941 1946 1922 1923 1924 1926 1934 1937 1948 1956
    4. .653 801-421-19 Charles Murphy Cubs (1906-1913) 1907 1908 1906 1910
    5. .639 277-155-8 William Hulbert Cubs (1876-1881) 1876 1880 1881
    6. .604 198-130 Pat Williams Bulls (1969-1973)
    7. .600 6-4 Tom Haller White Sox (September 27, 1986-October 5, 1986)
    8. .592 90-58-26 Mike Keenan NHL (1990- November 6, 1992) 1992
    9. .590 56-39 Bill Tobin Bears (1987-1992)
    10. .588 542-379-1 Philip K. Wrigley Cubs (1932-1937) 1932 1935
    11. .575 335-246-12 James Hart Cubs (1902-1905)
    12. .575 34-25-1 Ray Bennigsen Cardinals (1947-1951) 1947 1948
    13. .574 50-36-8 Chris O'Brien Cardinals (1920-1928) 1925
    14. .565 246-189-2 Hank Greenberg White Sox (1959-August 25, 1961) 1959
    15. .560 808-636 Jerry Krause Bulls (1985-2003) 1991 1992 1993 1996 1997 1998
    16. .556 257-205-2 Chuck Comiskey & John Rigney White Sox (1956-1958)
    17. .544 1,396-1,165-53 Al Spalding Cubs (1882-1901) 1882 1885 1886
    18. .541 493-419 Stan Bowman NHL (2009-2021) 2010 2013 2015
    19. .540 95-81 Jerry Angelo Bears (2001-2011) 2006
    20. .540 1,140-972-14 William Wrigley Junior Cubs (1918-1931) 1918 1929
    21. .539 248-212-4 Charles Weber Cubs (1938-1940) 1938
    22. .534 1,115-968-48 Charles Comiskey White Sox (1901-1914) 1901 1906
    23. .532 752-645-293 Tommy Ivan NHL (1954-1977) 1961 1962 1965 1971 1973
    24. .527 817-734-3 Ron Schueler White Sox (1991-2000)
    25. .521 1,014-931 Ken Williams White Sox (2001-2012) 2005
    26. .521 25-23 Rod Graves Bears (1994-1996)
    27. .518 450-419 Gar Forman Bulls (2009-2020)
    28. .512 84-80 Jon Kovler Bulls (1976-1978)
    29. .511 776-742-1 Jed Hoyer Cubs (2012-2021) 2016
    30. .511 749-717-2 Ed Short White Sox (August 26, 1961 - August 31, 1970)
    31. .508 125-121 Dick Motta Bulls (1973-1976)
    32. .504 173-170 Stu Holcomb White Sox (September 1, 1970 - 1972)
    33. .502 324-322-1 Jim Frey Cubs (1987-1991)
    34. .500 749-748 Jim Hendry Cubs (July 5, 2002 - August 17, 2011)
    35. .498 692-697-234 Bob Pulford NHL (1977-1990; November 7, 1992-1997; November 27,1999-2000 & October 25, 2003-2005)
    36. .496 610-620-11 Frank Lane White Sox (1948-1955)
    37. .496 117-119 Marc Eversley Bulls (2020-2023)
    38. .492 151-156-5 Charles Taft Cubs (1914-1915)
    39. .489 999-1,042-6 Roland Hemond White Sox (1973-1985)
    40. .487 2,285-2,408-27 Harry Grabiner White Sox (1915-1945) 1917 1919
    41. .485 72-77-22 Mike Smith NHL (2000- October 24, 2003)
    42. .483 211-226-1 Larry Himes Cubs (1992-1994)
    43. .481 311-335 Larry Himes White Sox (1987-1990)
    44. .479 23-25 Phil Emery Bears (2012-2014)
    45. .479 463-504-1 Dallas Green Cubs (1982-1987)
    46. .478 661-723-11 James T. Gallagher Cubs (1941-1949) 1945
    47. .476 234-258 John Paxson Bulls (2003-2009)
    48. .470 148-167 Andy MacPhail Cubs (July 19, 2000 - July 4, 2002)
    49. .468 144-164-2 Leslie O'Connor White Sox (1946-1947)
    50. .467 413-472 Ed Lynch Cubs (1995-July 18, 2000)
    51. .467 1,413-1,616-13 John Holland Cubs (1957-1975)
    52. .463 75-87 Salty Saltwell Cubs (1976)
    53. .461 700-817 Rick Hahn White Sox (2013-2022)
    54. .460 141-166-6 Charles Weeghman Cubs (1916-1917)
    55. .458 32-38-1 Herman Franks Cubs (May 22, 1981-1981)
    56. .457 74-88 Carter Hawkins Cubs (2022)
    57. .456 18-22-5 Doctor David Jones Cardinals (1929-1932)
    58. .455 310-371-2 Bob Kennedy Cubs (1977- May 21, 1981)
    59. .447 17-21 Randy Bush Cubs (August 18, 2011-2011)
    60. .444 258-336-106 Frederic McLaughlin NHL (1927-1942) 1934 1938 1931
    61. .442 57-72 Jim Finks Bears (1974-1982)
    62. .438 7-9 Dave Wannstedt Bears (1993)
    63. .436 143-185 Dale Tallon NHL (2005-2009)
    64. .435 64-84-6 George Halas Junior Bears (1963-1973) 1963
    65. .434 66-86 Hawk Harrelson White Sox (1986-September 24, 1986)
    66. .432 464-612-8 Wid Matthews Cubs (1950-1956)
    67. .425 48-65 Ryan Pace Bears (2015-2021)
    68. .422 64-93-29 Bob Murray NHL (1997-November 26, 1999)
    69. .406 233-341 Rod Thorn Bulls (1978-1985)
    70. .397 12-19-3 Charles Bidwell Cardinals (1933-1935)
    71. .388 95-150 Dick Klein Bulls (1966-1969)
    72. .387 248-424-106 Bill Tobin NHL (1942-1954) 1944
    73. .329 54-110 Kyle Davidson NHL (2021-2023)
    74. .297 19-45 Mark Hatley Bears (1997-2000)
    75. .276 25-68-3 Bill Bidwell Cardinals (1952-1959)
    76. .239 26-88-5 Arch Wolfe Cardinals (1936-1946)
    77. .176 3-14 Ryan Poles Bears (2022)

    Chicago Owner Standings

    1. .653 801-421-19 Charles Murphy Cubs (1906-1913) 1907 1908 1906 1910
    2. .639 277-155-8 William Hulbert Cubs (1876-1881) 1876 1880 1881
    3. .597 463-306-42 George Halas Bears (1920-1982) 1921 1932 1933 1940 1941 1943 1946 1963 1922 1923 1924 1926 1934 1937 1942 1948 1956
    4. .574 50-36-8 Chris O'Brien Cardinals (1920-1928) 1925
    5. .575 335-246-12 James Hart Cubs (1902-1905)
    6. .558 172-136-2 Dorothy Comiskey Rigney White Sox (1957-1958)
    7. .545 677-566-2 Arthur Allyn Junior & John Allyn White Sox (June 12, 1961-1968)
    8. .544 1,396-1,165-53 Al Spalding Cubs (1882-1901) 1882 1885 1886
    9. .540 1,140-972-14 William Wrigley Junior Cubs (1918-1931) 1918 1929
    10. .529 1,609-1,432 Jerry Reinsdorf Bulls (1985-2023) 1991 1992 1993 1996 1997 1998
    11. .519 967-882-389 Arthur Wirtz NHL (1953-1983) 1961 1962 1965 1971 1973
    12. .514 2,391-2,260-62 Charles Comiskey White Sox (1901-1931) 1901 1906 1917 1919
    13. .510 633-607 Rocky Wirtz NHL (2007-2023) 2010 2013 2015
    14. .504 3,313-3,262 Jerry Reinsdorf White Sox (1981-2023) 2005
    15. .504 323-318 Virginia Halas McCaskey Bears (1983-2022) 1985 2006
    16. .498 1,079-1,086-1 Thomas S. Ricketts Cubs (2009-2022) 2016
    17. .496 1,329-1,350-19 Grace Comiskey White Sox (July 19. 1939 - 1956)
    18. .493 242-249 Dick Klein Bulls (1967-1972)
    19. .493 27-28-15 The Norris Family NHL (1952-1953)
    20. .492 151-156-5 Charles Taft Cubs (1914-1915)
    21. .488 569-596-4 Bill Veeck Junior White Sox (1959-June 11, 1961 & 1976-1980) 1959
    22. .485 2,134-2,269-6 Tribune Company Cubs (1981-2008)
    23. .484 3,403-3,629-37 Philip K. Wrigley Cubs (1932-1976) 1932 1935 1938 1945
    24. .480 772-846-220 Bill Wirtz NHL (1983-2007) 1992
    25. .469 304-344 William Wrigley III Cubs (1977-1980)
    26. .465 522-601-3 John Allyn White Sox (1969-1975)
    27. .462 493-573 Arthur Wirtz & Estate Bulls (1972-1985)
    28. .460 141-166-6 Charles Weeghman Cubs (1916-1917)
    29. .456 519-619-7 J. Louis Comiskey White Sox (1932-July 18, 1939)
    30. .456 18-22-5 Doctor David Jones Cardinals (1929-1932)
    31. .452 319-400-129 Frederic McLaughlin NHL (1927-1944) 1934 1938 1931 1944
    32. .391 59-93-4 Violet Bidwell Wolfner Cardinals (1947-1959) 1947 1948
    33. .364 148-281-61 James E. Norris NHL (1944-1952)
    34. .275 38-107-8 Charles Bidwell Cardinals (1933-1946)

    Note *: Bears, Bulls and the NHL team have identified GMs since inception. Club Owners are listed for Cubs (1876-1937), White Sox (1901-1914) and Cardinals (1920-1935).

     

    • Like 1
    • Love 1

    Fire Rick Hahn

    in Pale Hose Talk

    Posted

    Glad only 11,900 paid today.

    371,868 / 22 Home Games = 16,903

    Pace: 1,369,150 plus excess Cubs, Yankees, Red Sox and Cardinal tickets sold.

    Post Jerry Cancelled World Series plus White Flag Trades the only two seasons  (1998 & 1999) under 1.4M at the new stadium.

    Under 1.3M would be nice.

    • Like 2

    5/18: White Sox vs Guardians - 1:10 PM Start

    in 2023 Season in Review

    Posted

    1 minute ago, kwill said:

    You can see how much this team has drained the board. 1/3 of the game still left and we are ready to waive the white flag on the two run game. 

    Not that I blame anybody

    You have done the best possible working with the lineup today. Your work is to be commended, only the second time the Sox had a winning streak this season.

    We thank you for your service.

    5/18: White Sox vs Guardians - 1:10 PM Start

    in 2023 Season in Review

    Posted

    7 minutes ago, joejoesox said:

    TA is fucking cooked wow 

    Most teams would have him on the IL. He's on the White Sox.

    40 Man Roster - 20 Position Players

    Healthy Major League Talent:

    • Infield - Can hit and catch (1): Moncada.
    • Outfield - Can hit and catch (1): Robert Junior.

    Healthy Major League Hitters, can't field:

    • DH/IB - Healthy (3): Burger, Sheets, Vaughn.

    Major League Fielders, can't hit:

    • Outfield (2): Benintendi, Hamilton.

    Injured Players:

    • DH/1B/ Faux Catcher (2): Grandal, Jimenez.
    • Infield (2): Anderson, Andrus.

    AAA Players

    • Catchers (2): Perez, Zavala.
    • Infield (4): Alberto, Gonzalez, Rodriguez, Sosa.
    • Outfield (3): Colas, Haseley, Marisnick

    Opening up my mind to giving the season a clean slate

    in Pale Hose Talk

    Posted · Edited by South Side Hit Men

    35 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

    Eloy might have a worse throwing arm than Benintendi.

    He’s not a RFer, any more than AJ Pollock is or was in 2022-23.

    Sheets has zero business playing defense.

    Rick Hahn roster construction with six guys who can't play defense on the roster beyond 1B before letting Abreu go (Vaughn, Grandal, Sheets, Burger, Eloy).

     

    Will the Sox do the right thing when Eloy comes back and move Yoan to 2B?

    in Pale Hose Talk

    Posted

    24 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

    Burger is doing really well at DH; 

    They don't have any reserves who can play multiple positions who are any good at it.
    Having 2 pinch runners and 5th OFs as reserves, as is currently, is not ideal.
    Sheets off the bench, if that's where he belongs,  is more valuable than a 2nd 5th OF.

    Folks need to take into account the impact on the pitching staff when 4th and 5th outs are required due to players who really have no business wearing a glove.

    • Catchers (2): YG & SZ
    • Starting Infielders / DH (5): SS TA, 2B EA, DH JB, 3B YM, 1B AV
    • Starting Outfielders (3): AB, EJ, LR Jr..
    • Reserves (3): Infielder, Infielder/Outfielder, Outfielder.

    You need to have someone who can at least adequately play defense to cover the three reserve roles. Sheets is not an option. He can't even field 1B.

    Eloy and Burger are far superior to Sheets. At some point, they'll also consider bringing up Colas, who is an actual OFer. They should have traded Eloy for pitching over the past two off-seasons, but failed to do so, to maximize a trade return for their glut of DHs.

     

    Will the Sox do the right thing when Eloy comes back and move Yoan to 2B?

    in Pale Hose Talk

    Posted

    40 minutes ago, Milkman delivers said:

    I know he’s not lighting up the world, but it seems like everyone dislikes Sheets. For being used pretty sporadically and in at different positions, he still seems to me like one of our better hitters.

    It’s not dislike but rather the fact he can’t play defense, and his bat isn’t good enough to supplant Vaughn, Eloy or Burger. He can wait in Charlotte until one of the three go down.

    They need reserves with flexibility over multiple defensive positions. Sheets could be a platoon DH if there weren’t so many holes on the roster.

    • Like 1
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