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South Side Hit Men

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Posts posted by South Side Hit Men

  1. 1 hour ago, wegner said:

    The classless move of throwing at Jose when they had a huge lead put me firmly in the camp of the Astros can fuck all the way off....I hope their offense goes cold and they get swept.

    Regardless of any feelings regarding the previous series, to be a respectable website, it is imperative to at minimum have the proper names for both teams, so we aren't considered idiots.

    Should future game threads be titled White Sux because La Russa intentionally ordered Ohtani hit?

    An unlike the alleged intent you are stating, MLB suspended Wright and La Russa for their clear actions. The Astros have faced no investigation, ejection, or suspension. Jose had no issue with it, people are bent out of shape because Tony threw his 2 year old tantrum, more out of embarrassment for being completely pwned by Dusty Baker the entire season. Dusty just looked at the fool and said "Child, please", the entire baseball world once again is laughing at the White Sox for yet another La Russa incident.

    • Like 1

  2. 35 minutes ago, FoxForce2 said:

    The Sox organization seems to take a perverse pride in shooting themselves in the foot regarding anything resembling modern baseball play.

    One of the reasons the Sox are where they are on this list.

    Last season team reached LCS:

    • 30. Pittsburgh (1992)
    • 29. Cincinnati (1995)
    • 28. San Diego (1998)
    • 27. Seattle (2001)
    • 26. Minnesota (2002)
    • 25. Miami (2003)
    • 24. Chicago AL (2005)
    14 minutes ago, Paulie4Pres said:

    You do realize that BAC has nothing to do with analytics or statistics, right?

    But, here's a statistic for you. Tony La Russa has been arrested twice for DUI. In 100% of those instances, he was over the legal limit. In 100% of those instances, he was displaying driving behavior that would lead one to believe he was driving drunk. In 100% of those instances, the police arrested him for it. In 100% of those instances, he was guilty.

    And in both instances he was let off with a rest slap. 

    • Like 1




    5 hours ago, quickman said:

    Sure he does. He doesn't have to answer to anyone or for anything.  Ricky had the balls to go to Abreu and tell him you need to become a legitimate first baseman or you're a permanent DH. Does Tony have the balls to tell Tim or Abreu anything?

    Abreu plays every game, regardless of how bad he is injured or is slumping. Not only does he pencil himself in, he demands the best player available to protect him in the lineup. And stop running out there when Abreu gets hit like he is two years old.


    3 hours ago, SoxAce said:

    Then why were the numbers so much better under Ricky Renteria who was just a year removed?

    Part of it is due to the fact the Sox were playing absolute ciphers in the OF (Goodwin, Lamb, Sheets), but we were told the team would be better offensively and defensively when everyone was back, and they looked like absolute shit defensively the entire series and played their worst baseball of the season in Game 4.

    2 hours ago, KrankinSox said:



    WTF does "originally" mean in that tweet? I read it as he will now stay LONGER than three years,

    He did not go in there and said I'm only staying one more season. He's not going to start the season intentionally as a lame duck.

    It's my contention this clown wants to beat Connie Mack's record. I could see Jerry putting in his will that Tony cannot be fired under any circumstance.

  4. How come there isn't a pejorative for the Red Cubs, who won a World Series cheating one year after the Astros?

    Managed by Alex Cora who was suspended for a season and has two "tainted" World Series rings, opposing Dusty Baker who had nothing to do with any of it.

  5. 1 hour ago, EloyJenkins said:

    I have had a few days to decompress and calm down. As one of the resident "Optimists" on this board, this season is the biggest failure I can remember.
    2000 stung, but the talent level in pitching this year was far superior.

    3 things I see as Absolutely necessary items to address:

    -Lynn MUST go on a conditioning program. The 60 to full season jump affected him more than anyone else. Love his fire, but he needs to put the work in this offseason and be sustainable next year. Without him being effective come October, the season is already at risk.  

    -2 Fielding fundamentals mini-camps. I can't stress this enough. Do an optional one in December/January, and then make a mandatory camp a couple days before spring training. I really hope this comes with a new manager (doubtful), but at the very least ALL the fielders need to tighten up and have video/tactical plans clearly outlined. I know this is a huge ask and prima donna attitudes will reign, but poor alignment/shifts, lazy technique, and improper cut off man/relays destroyed this team against Houston. Embarrassing and unacceptable. 

    Totally concur on Lynn, have been posting since his chronic knee issues ended his dominance the past two months of the season.

    In terms of fielding, infield guy Joe McEwing and outfield guy Daryl Boston have been here close to a decade. Outside of Daryl's work with Vaughn, there is not much evidence any fundamentals were covered this season. The same defensive crap that people bitched about when Ricky was here has not changed whatsoever. They haven't done much of anything under three managers, and it's hard to imagine something changing now.

    Jerry sprung for two additional coaches for Tony, because clearly he could use as much help as possible. One was used on their catcher "guru" Jerry Narron. If anything, the catchers collectively took a step back this season. I don't see anything happening on the #2 front, unless Tony leaves or they make changes the Sox or Tony seldom if ever make.

  6. 1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

    He wasn’t dominant but their usage of him made no sense either. After he got hurt, they called him up without a rehab stint at AAA, then buried him in the bullpen pitching an inning every 3 or 4 days until September. He therefore completely missed goals for how many innings he was supposed to get and also never got back into a groove post injury. How is a guy supposed to build his arm back up or get back into a pitching routine with that usage pattern? How on Earth do you bring a guy in his second year back to the big leagues without some in game work in Charlotte?

    It should come as zero surprise that his performance was notably better in September when they started giving him longer outings.

    They never said what his innings target was. I think they managed him his workload well, he had no base and they were conservative. However, next season they need to solely commit to him starting, developing 3-4 pitches and being ready to start games in late June or July, perhaps a 2-3 inning start and work his way to 120-140 innings including playoffs.

    His usage the past week was ridiculous, and Tony should apologize to both Michael and the fans for pitching him in Game 4.

    2 hours ago, Texsox said:

    If this is true, what a joke. Let the players pick a manager? How about getting the fans involved? 



    1 hour ago, MiddleCoastBias said:

    I'm pretty sure LaRussa finished this quote with something like "as I always have done, that's how I operate" the other day and Sullivan just took the juicy part and let others make it into a story.

    LaRussa said this after the game and the context sure sounded like he makes the judgment whether he has the team under his control or on his side or whatever, and that it's not a physical straw poll of the players. Sounds like posturing and that he'll be back next year unless someone in the clubhouse vocally stands up and says we don't want you here.

    This is exactly how it went down in the post game press conference. He prefaced it by saying "after I became stablished", i.e. sometime in Oakland.

    Wonder if players can trust Hahn or others in the organization to keep their thoughts on La Russa confidential. With a manager controlling your life's income via playing time, especially younger players, it's best to keep your mouth shut than risk everything. This organization has had a shady record over the years, especially when it comes to leaks, management clubhouse informants/plants, etc..

    Abreu and other select veterans do whatever the hell they want, play when they want, demand they play even if it's smart to sit them for health or rest, etc.  However, if veterans serious about doing what it takes to win a championship, and a ballot was confidential, the results may not be in Tony's favor.

  7. 20 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:


    Guess nobody stuck out across the city, like Haber...that said, no Brewers' front office guys, either, or Cardinals, Giants, Dodgers, etc.

    "According to The Athletic, the Cubs narrowed their GM search to four candidates, including Hawkins, James Harris (Cleveland's VP of player development), Carlos Rodriguez (Rays VP of player development and international scouting) and Jeremy Zoll (Twins assistant GM)."

    I think you quoted the wrong part, or the article was updated.


    That process is nearing a close, with Chicago working to finalize a deal that will name Carter Hawkins, a long-time part of Cleveland's front office, as the Cubs' new GM, a source told MLB.com on Wednesday.

    Losing Hawkins will help the Cubs, and hurt the Guardians. Some here may be more concerned with the former, but it works for me.

    Detroit and Cleveland will begin narrowing the gap with the Sox next season, unless the Owner and FO steps up and makes significant improvements. Both already enjoy a schematic advantage in the dugout.

    • Like 1

  8. 1 hour ago, FoxForce2 said:

    Maybe you missed the part in my post that postulated that you'd bring a 1958 Koufax forward to 2010 and then commence his development from there. But then according to your reasoning, that Ted Williams guy (21st Century updated), wouldn't make much of an impact in today's game either. Or a Willie Mays... or Hank Aaron...
    So how well would Man O' War or Citation run against American Pharoah?
    How well would Sugar Ray Robinson do against today's middleweights?
    My point still stands - you can't judge/gauge a player outside of his era with much validity.
    But then there's always MLB The Show 21...

    p.s. Just taking size into account, I'd say Pedro Martinez at  5' 11' 170 lbs would do alright against today's lineups.

    You are missing my point. The average ball player today would have been a star  back in the day, the average player back in the day would have trouble making a ML roster today. There would be a few limited outliers, including some you call out, but they would be the exceptions, not the rule.

    And the training and health components are not the only factors. The population pool was tens of millions of white Americans and a couple dozen black players when Koufax came up in Brooklyn, and wasn’t much larger by the time he retired. He was much larger size wise than nearly all other pitchers in his era. Today, the talent base has increased tenfold, reaches Latin America, Japan, Korea.

    This phenomenon is not limited to baseball, as hockey and basketball grace experienced the same exponential growth in talent pool. George Mikan is not even starting in the NBA, let alone in the hall of fame, if born over the past few decades.

    PS - A healthy Secretariat would have beaten them all, no horse will ever match or beat his record at Belmont, and it’s unlikely they touch his Kentucky Derby time.

    In that sport, the population of available athletes has shrunk, as the tax write offs available to owners and breeders changed in 1986, and the sport has been in precipitous decline.

    The 1973 Belmont Steaks is the greatest athletic performance in my lifetime, no human in any sport will ever come close to matching that level of domination.

  9. 3 hours ago, caulfield12 said:


    Got to hand it to TLR for getting his name out there somehow when the season's already over and there's nothing left to fight for...

    Such a fucking hypocritical asshat.

    Dotson told reporters after the game Tony ordered him to throw at Murray and Cal Ripken because the Orioles where ass whupping another of his ill prepared White Sox playoff teams.



    Dotson, normally the most careful and taciturn of athletes, is telling sundry listeners that not only did he "hit Ripken on purpose," but he had "taken a poll" to find out which Oriole "would be the best to hit," since orders to do so had "come down from the grapevine."

    Tony is the last of the relics of yesteryear, MLB Mall Cop. Clueless about what’s going on during the game, laser focused on the unwritten rules.

    He and his team were an embarrassment out there, Dusty just looked at him like he was the clown that he is. Even Abreu looked at him like WTF, he and his teammates  just wanted to get out of there at that point after being thoroughly unprepared at every facet of the game to compete against a quality and prepared playoff opponent.

    Won’t be the last time as long as Tony remains. Even AJ who has only seen the team a few time this year was two-three steps ahead of La Russa in key situations. I wish the Sox had a manager who was more focused about beating his opponent than beaning his opponent.

  10. 2 hours ago, FoxForce2 said:

    To  go very far at all in trying to compare players from different eras isn't much more than spitballing. An interesting comparison might be that of 1963-1966 Koufax and peak Kershaw (whom Koufax worked with and at least somewhat mentored.) Koufax only had two pitches, granted they were immaculate pitches, but still only two which wouldn't cut it in today's game. But if you were to put SK into a hot tub time machine in 1958 and tub-port him into the year 2010, develop a 3rd and 4th pitch, get him all the advantages of modern medicine and training, 5th day starts etc.  and you'd likely have something like peak Kershaw -with a hotter 4-seam and deeper curve...
    and that with a superior talent in big game/high pressure situations. On a point like this I like to refer to Ty Cobb's gapped bat grip - LOL!
    And what am I doing going OT on this thread anyway?

    "You've heard the one about the guy that could throw a ball through a car-wash and not get the ball wet? Well, Koufax was actually that guy."
    Pete Rose (para)

    ...and no, I'm not Jewish.


    And what about the typical lineup he faced, mostly Madrigal or Altuve size, played half the year, sold insurance or worked at a store the other half of the year. Blacks and Latin Americans were mostly excluded until the end of his career (10% combined participation in the late 50s to about 20% when he stepped down), and the handful who did were stars / MVPs because they dominated in a league full of recreational softball players.

    People cherry pick this or that player. But if you watch a game, you would think it was maybe a high school or college game by the size of the players.

    Keith Hernandez one of the bigger players at 6 feet 180 lbs in the 1980s. “Giant” Mickey Mantle was 5’ 11” 195 lbs., now most middle infielders are bigger, stronger, more muscle, and they play sober. Koufax faced nine hitters, most of whom would be high school sized today, with a much lower physical ability than today’s player.

    If Koufax, physically a giant in his era (6’ 2” 210 lbs) had to face the 2021 Astros or White Sox, with today’s strike zone, he’d have trouble getting through the lineup more than two times.


  11. I thought McCann at $10M and Grandal at $18.3M were both ridiculous.

    I wanted Renfroe, Zunino and Wacha for what they paid Eaton last year. Wacha wasn't good, but the other two were excellent values.



  12. 4 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:


    Doesn’t stop La Russa.

    23 minutes ago, greg775 said:

    I'm sick of it. Even LaRussa, an old timer, has given into it. Baseball like most companies let the consultants get to the decision makers. This modern philosophy of pitching and trying to score runs has taken over and the game is so damn boring. Good luck to pitchers trying to get in the Hall of Fame in the future. I guess it'll be reserved for closers and the best of the beset home run hitters and that's it. Don't even call them starting pitchers anymore. Third time through the order and most fans want that starter OUT. You face a hitter twice and that's it.

    Donny, you’re outta your element.

    Watch games from decades ago, hitters, pitchers, their bodies, their abilities. All but a few HOFers would be run of the mill starters or bench players today.

    Better fundamentals the only advantage from “back in the day” and today.

    • Haha 1

  13. 3 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

    One thing I hate is coming and going out of your seat. There is no etiquette. Especially with these 4 1/2 hour games. There is so much down time. Yet someone gets right in front of you to go to their seat, or go spend $100 on overrated food just as a pitch is being delivered. 

    Wait for the whistle.

  14. 33 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

    Anderson & Moncada are owed a combined $22.5M next year.  Add a few more pre-arb guys and we’re quickly we’re sitting around $145M with five spots to fill if we turn down Kimbrel’s option.  So it just comes down to how much total payroll Jerry will support.  At $170M, we’d be looking at $25M to work with to fill all our holes.

    Yes, Thank you., I should have included them. I don’t think they have the will to make the moves to adequately fill these holes without going Top 10 / $180-$200m.

    Their poor roster construction and players who cannot cover a position beyond DH/1B (Eloy, Sheets, Burger, Grandal, Abreu) limit what they can do without moving one of these players.

  15. 5 minutes ago, maloney.adam said:



    For teams in the latter bucket, it’s likely they just don’t view Kimbrel as a highly palatable trade chip — at least not to the extent that they’d give up a meaningful prospect. It’s certainly plausible that Kimbrel could be swapped out for another expensive veteran — speculatively speaking, the Rays had interest in Kimbrel at the deadline and figure to again be open to moving Kevin Kiermaier and his comparable salary — but the Sox aren’t likely to find a team willing to part with a top prospect or controllable young big leaguer. Whatever route Hahn and his staff take, it seems there’s a chance Kimbrel’s tenure with the team will be short-lived.


  16. 22 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

    Definitely feels like we’ll be capped out around $170M next year.  If so, it’s going to be nearly impossible for Hahn to address all the holes on this team with quality additions.  Even by moving Kimbrel, we may only $25M or so to work with, so expect a couple Adam Eaton type signings this offseason.


    I believe they have more wiggle room than you are stating, especially if they let Kimbrel walk. They need to spend around $50M for a SP, 2B, RF, and a couple quality bullpen arms to legitimately contend for a WS championship. They can do it if they spend wisely, Hahn doesn't feel the need to settle for mediocrity or worse before Christmas. In this instance, the CBA will help because I'm not sure there will be much of a market until after the CBA is settled beyond signing team/player options.

    Current Commitments (includes 2021 / 2022 buyouts & 2022 Arbitration estimates by MLB Trade Rumors): $120.3M for 15 players

    • Old Guys $90.0M (5 Players): Abreu $19.7; Keuchel $19.5; Lynn $18.5; Grandal $18.3; Hendriks $13.0; Kimbrel $1.0 (buyout).
    • Core $30.3M (10 Players): Giolito $7.9; Jimenez $6.5M; Robert $6.0; Lopez $2.8; Bummer $2,5; Engel $2.2; [Cease, Sheets, Kopech and Crochet $0.6M each].

    This is why I don't like signing / moving Kimbrel, it's another mistake because the Sox are likely going to eat a substantial portion of that contract. They were the only team to spend more than $11M AAV last season on a reliever (Hand and Rosenthal the only other relievers over $10M).

  17. 1 minute ago, ron883 said:

    Yeah, being a GM under an ultra rich Steve Cohen sounds pretty attractive...

    Yes, but do you want your owner joining fans to trash you and your team on Twitter after a bad game?

    Fans may think winning is everything, but working in a good environment, for good people, in a good organization, trumps winning a "piece of metal". You spend thousands of hours at work, a good situation means everything. 

  18. 57 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

    Steve Stone for a postmortem on the Laurence Holmes show at noon.

    First half of the discussion, Stone focused on the defense. Discussing the various little things the Sox do poorly, talking about outfielders not hitting the cutoff and specifically calling out Eloy.

    Steve then spent a substantial amount of time focusing on Grandal, his hard hands which causes an inability to block balls in the dirt, in comparison to Maldonado. Steve specifically called out the fastball Rodon threw on 0-2, and Steve surmised Rodon threw it because he cannot rely on Grandal to block his best sliders in the dirt. Then he moved on to the abysmal base runner management, by all three catchers and the pitching staff.

    He finished talking about Rodon's health and pending free agency, and Kopech needing to be able to fool hitters with location and velocity to progress as a starter. 

    • Like 1

  19. 4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

    One really interesting thing to note is that the Mets are looking for a President of baseball ops, and we have at least one guy who has applied for those jobs in the past in Kenny Williams, and another one who interviewed for their GM job back in 2010 when he was still Ast GM of the Sox in Rick Hahn.

    Hopefully Jerry does the right thing and allows either to interview for a promotion if they so desired.

    Jerry blocked Kenny previously when Toronto tried to hire Kenny to replace Jerry's friend Paul Beeston as Toronto Blue Jays President several years ago.

  20. 7 minutes ago, The Mighty Mite said:

    Where's Rick Renteria these days?

    Rick just finished his one year paid vacation courtesy of Hahn's October 2019 extension.

    Rick is now free to pursue other opportunities without compensation due to the White Sox. I wish him the best, and believe he will join a Major League coaching staff, perhaps as bench coach, if he wants to work again.