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nitetrain8601

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Posts posted by nitetrain8601

  1. 1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

    Just because you trade someone doesn't mean you didn't want them.  It may well be another team wants them  more.  Keep in mind Drew Thorpe specifically never threw a regular season pitch for the Padres organization.

    At one point or another, yes, you want that prospect. But as time goes by, you're willing to deal that prospect for even a flawed player. Padres are great at showcasing their prospects and putting them in positions to succeed, but I would bet maybe 5 of their top 25 prospects over the past 3 years even pan out into + WAR players over the course of their careers. Look at Washington. They thought they got a haul for Soto. 

  2. I give it a D. Padres gave up prospects they "developed", but didn't want. If Cease pitches well, they could flip him again at the deadline. Sox were also adamant about top end talent. Doesn't feel like we got that. Lastly, when you're rebuilding, I'm always in the opinion that you trade star pitching for position players, because everyday players affect the season more than SP. 

    Talks about Spencer Jones or Kjerstad, and we go Thorpe? Yeah, no. 

  3. 19 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said:

    Who is going to buy up that Arlington Heights property? The Bears are going to take a haircut if they put it back on the market anytime soon. 

    A developer. I don't think that's too hard. They may sell it at a slight loss, but maybe not since the area is clear. You can start building on it almost immediately. 

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  4. 19 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said:

    The two organizations working together on something never made any realistic sense to me. There is no way they can share a stadium and it seems impossible to put both a baseball stadium and a football stadium at the 78 site. 

    I still think the Bears end up out in Arlington Heights. They already have the land purchased. Arlington Heights is also so much easier to get to for a majority of their fanbase and season ticket holders. It seems like a natural fit. 

     

    3 minutes ago, WBWSF said:

    The  Bears didn't want to spend a few million dollars in taxes in Arlington Heights. I find it hard to believe the Bears are going to pay $2 Billion dollars for a stadium in Chicago.

    I think they end up selling Arlington Heights and are including that sale as part of the "We'll pony up 2 mil". And I think that's why it gets done. Even if the stadium is 4 billion to build, that's half. You would be lucky to get even a quarter of that from JR.

  5. 1 hour ago, LittleHurtCG said:

    And why should they? This whole scenario has been fascinating to observe. The only leverage Jerry has left is to threaten to move the team if he doesn't get his way. It is very hard to teach an old dog a new trick and JR is no exception. 

    My guess is that the Bears and Sox were told to go work something out together (public info), then the Bears and Sox did. Sox probably tried their schtick with the Bears saying "Yeah, you let us use your cash and we'll lobby support behind whatever you want to do." Warren, who has done this before, said "yeah, no, this isn't going to work." and decided, we are just going to move along ourselves. 

    I've always felt, the first to the table is the one that gets their stadium done with at least some public financing. The other one will get very little financing and probably doesn't end up building. Bears released this to the press on Sunday less than a week after they were going to try to work with the Sox. It's clear they're racing to the table.

    JR moves to the beat of his own drum, so I'm sure he's not panicking. 

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  6. 2 hours ago, tray said:

    I have enumerated facts supported by links why the 78 site makes no sense for the WSox, coupled with my own opinions and reasoning and no, it wasn't only about parking. However, it would be short sighted to discount that. I do not want to re-litigate the Related/78 proposal, but to highlight a few points.

    The 78 site is over a former river bed and dump site. Related is looking (once again) through rose colored glasses with their hands out after their prior proposals for that site (going back over 20 years) have failed.  Reorienting streets, railroad tracks, and ingress/egress for the 78 would add tremendously to development costs for the City and State over developing other sites, including the Bridgeport or Bronzeville/M. Reese site. 

    The 78 rendering of a nondescript baseball stadium within an office park was uninspiring. Related patronizing fans with a later version of their rendering painted green for St. Pat's day, was insulting.

     

     

     

    People want urban areas where they can do stuff pre-game and post game. While there is a contingent that like to tailgate, that’s simply what the younger generations want and that’s been proven. 
     

    The river bed stuff is a failed argument. There’s a public park adjacent just south of the proposed stadium site called ping tom park. It’s good enough to have folks walking around, catching kayaks, etc, but the area next to it isn’t? 
     

    Atlanta has a large office building in truist sightlines. Wrigleyville has had the rooftops. This wouldn’t be any different. With that stated, not “being inspired” by the renderings is subjective just like the rest of your post. The folks downstate actually like the renderings and the area.

     

    if the stadium isn’t built it has nothing to do with parking lots or how the renderings look. It’s purely money related.

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  7. 2 hours ago, NO!!MARY!!! said:

    If they are Sox fans who are willing to see the team leave over an 88 year old owner who won’t be around long, that makes them worse. 

    See I think Sox fans (not you in particular) have a double standard. Pride ourselves in not supporting crap, but at the same time, we crap on those who aren't supporting the crap. 

    I'm with whatever pushes JR to be out of the sports game fastest. Whether that's giving him his darn stadium to make it more attractive to sell the team, or losing out to take his ball and go home (via relocation or sale). You say he's 88 like he hasn't been stirring up more and more trouble. Now, he's willing to blame lack of attendance to potentially screw over tax payers as one of his final acts as if his product isn't complete and utter garbage. 

    2 hours ago, tray said:

    For the umpteenth time, the 78 proposal was dreamed up and hyped by a developer that could not obtain financing or public funding for several past projects there. This things was NOT the WSox or Reinsdorf's idea.

    Related paid for a laughable rendering of a generic stadium that has absolutely no relationship to historical baseball architecture, including original Comiskey or Wrigley.  There is nothing to make it a destination or a special experience like Fenway or even the more modern stadiums, including Three Rivers or Oracle Park. It is a POS. But, Related thnks that smacking a several story high lighted SOX  logo on the side, a few whirlybirds with fireworks will be enough to impress some fans. LOL. A view of the Loop?  So what, but even that looks like it is blocked by a huge scoreboard, a similar mistake that was made during the remodel of Wrigley where the neighborhood views from inside and outside the park were blocked off with scoreboards.

    So we have a greedy developer with a laughable plan to build as many buildings as they could draw in as small a space as possible, leaving WSox fans with no useful ingress/egress or provisions for reasonable parking. Oh, and Related wants Billions from IL taxpayers to develop that site? LOL.  No matter what you think of Gov. Pritzker, he is right about this one. No public funds for stadiums or funds awarded to private developers to build more unnecessary office space or high end condos.  The answer is no.

     

    Lots of people liked the renderings. And what makes you think JR cares about "historical baseball architecture" when he's the one who greenlit Guaranteed Rate which looked like a parking garage and a baseball field had a baby the day it was thought of?

    Make no mistake, JR wants a new stadium and a new sweetheart deal from the city and state. There was already talk if him looking at the UC area or Soldier Field before the Related talk began. He also is friends with the developer.

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  8. 16 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

    Just wanted to put this out there. Mainstream media stories came out yesterday that the Chicago Red Stars of the women's pro soccer league said they now want to get a stadium built for them. One of the quotes in the story way "women deserve a seat at the table..."

    I don't think it will happen. They don't draw enough in Bridgeview. That stadium in Bridgeview is pretty nice overall. At best, they'll have to share a stadium. If they drew heavy, then yes, they would most definitely have a seat at the table. 

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  9. 44 minutes ago, Lightly Folded said:

    Pritzker made it clear that credible taxpayer benefits would have to be evident before any state aid would be on the table. A question Pritzker also could have also been asked is does he see any taxpayer benefits from the current deal the Sox have with the state and how he’d feel about extending it past 2029. I believe the overwhelming view is that there is only benefits to the white sox ownership group and none to the taxpayer. Therefore how could there be any justification in extending that deal if it doesn’t benefit taxpayers. Jerry obviously isn’t going accept a lesser deal. . I suppose the bears are in the same situation regarding extending the hotel tax with it going to them for help building a new stadium. There is a possibility the Sox won’t have any home ballpark to play in after 2029 if Pritzker hold fast to his commitment to Illinois taxpayers.

    I worry about the Bears issue if it's not Arlington Heights. Large part of the allure was a domed stadium in Bear land where they build up a stadium park similar to LA Live with Staples, The Battery with the Braves, etc. If the Bears are not getting that, they don't get much benefit. If they don't get much benefit, then they're going to look for a sweeter deal from the city to make up on potentially lost revenue. Ultimately, it hits taxpayers again for a stadium, potentially, not so different from Soldier Field. At that point, just renovate Soldier again. Move the columns to an outside park potentially on the south lot. Put a retractable roof and touch up the bottom concourse. 

    For the Sox, location and space make sense. Sweetheart deal where everyone else pays for it and gets no benefit from don't. 

  10. 3 hours ago, 77 Hitmen said:

    I agree.  That debt is *only* $50M.  If Jerry isn't willing to cover that, then the state should tell him no.   JR is saving at least that much by slashing payroll after the rebuild crashed and burned.  

    There are no term limits for Illinois Governor.  Edgar chose not to seek a 3rd term voluntarily.  Everyone else since him has been limited due to their incompetence and/or crookedness.  

    I was in high school at the time, anyone know why Edgar didn’t want a third term?

  11. 2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

    It's Fanatics.  They are a freaking disaster.

     

    5 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

    Honestly how did Nike mess this up so badly.  You are NIKE, one of the world’s top athletic wear producers!  What the hell lmao

    It's both Nike and Fanatics. Fanatics makes giant posters, hats and accessories. They don't make uniforms. They never have. I've seen Temu jerseys that look better. Nike screwed up because they wanted that contract so bad so they could put their check on the uniform. They got it, then they subcontracted the job to Fanatics. And shame on MLB for allowing them to do that. 

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  12. 51 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

    If you upgraded, like JR is doing , yes. JR doesn't NEED a new park. 

    The reason doesn't matter. With that stated, it's a new debt, and by account, a new expense. With that stated, it slots into the budget the same.

    In the end, I do wonder, if JR doesn't get his stadium, does it hasten the sale of the team? If so, while the stadium looks great and I love the land around it, I think I would vote for shooting it down. That's how bad he's been as an owner.

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  13. 51 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

    I wish someone from the state would tell JR that clearly we aren’t going to be subsidizing $1.7 billion ballparks. He should understand as he doesn’t play on high end free agents.

    That would be funny to be honest. Should make it a public hearing and do the same "Well, we're not going to do that, it's asinine to pay for a stadium like that. No stadium ever deserves that kind of money" in the way he did the interview and comment on Shohei.

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  14. 29 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said:

    Who is gonna cut that check for the remaining balance on GRF? I don't see Jerry lining up to do that. Also, the stadium would still exist in Bridgeport without a tenant and without revenue coming in. 

    So the State of Illinois and/or City of Chicago would be part owners of the new stadium? Like I said, good luck with that.

    The private develepors are also going to be asking for $$ from the State and City. $$ that doesn't exist without new taxes or some sort. 

    Jerry will. Jerry has private investors lined up and it's not going to cost the gov anything more than what they're paying now. 

    21 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said:

    First I've heard about the Bears wanting to shift away from Arlington Heights. Didn't they already buy all the land in AH and do a bunch of renderings of what the new stadium and surrounding area would look like? 

    Where would they go on the lakefront? Would they put a massive domed stadium right on the lake? 

    They did basic renderings of how they could fill the land, but no actual stadium pictures. For all things Lorri did wrong, she did render some images of a new Soldier Field land. A domed stadium on the lake would be awesome to be honest, but it would cost crazy money to pull off. My thoughts is doing something similar to SoFi, but also have retractable windows to open it up to the lake during the summer time. You would be looking at a 5 billion dollar stadium, however, and that's without figuring out how to navigate "Friends of the Park" as well as the rest of the development (train station being a major one).

     

    In addition, one of the main reasons why the Bears wanted their own stadium is so they could generate their own revenue. They wanted a sportsbook. They wanted Bears land and they wanted control of it. You build anywhere near Soldier Field and FOTP is going to cancel 80% of your vision, hence why JR doesn't go through them. He's many bad things as an owner, the one thing he isn't is a bad business man. 

    11 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

    It's also an owners who has cut players with no gain at all.  He essentially cut John Danks a $10 million check when he cut him.  He did it last year with Leury Garcia.

    JR and his ancestors stand to gain hundreds of millions of dollars here.  This isn't something as simplistic as a baseball contract.  This is investment that pays off for decades (maybe longer), not a baseball player which pays off for a period of less than a decade, at most.  This is a man who has cut checks for investments all of his life.  It is where he made his fortune to buy into the White Sox and Bulls.

    JR has been kind to people. He has not been a good owner. But he does have a soft spot.

    9 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

    The bump in franchise valuation alone just from moving downtown easily covers that. It would be a drop in the bucket.

    Bingo. In addition, the sale of the team with the new downtown stadium, along with owning the real estate and owning the stadium land with Stephen Ross will be enough. JR is going to gain tons of money from this. 50 million is a non-cited parking ticket for him. It doesn't even register for him.

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  15. 5 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

    I think some amount of underground parking beneath the next buildings is feasible and probably pays for itself here as it would also support the rest of the development on the site. I’m sure JR would be excited to own that. However, it’s going to be naturally limited on site just by the nature of it being surface streets. It probably will happen in some form.

    I think of Cincinatti and similar to that. It's right along the lake, but they did underground parking. With that said, it wouldn't fit every car if no one took public transportation. In all honesty, it promotes public trans better which helps the city. 

    I think it's a no brainer. Your older fans will still want to be driven and they can be, but the core of your fanbase is going to be younger. Folks coming in from the downtown high schools, stretching all the way to Ignatius and Whitney Young, the UIC folks, and you will still get Bridgeport faithful who are willing to take 2 train stops north. I don't even think it's much farther from Ricobenes.

    And the important thing, they don't have to do much to build an environment around the ballpark. In Bridgeport, they fought trying to do so. Bridgeport is very protective of their identity, similar to Pilsen. They want to ok any and everything going on. It's not just about making money, but making money their way. Sox are trying to make their franchise more attractive. Like I told folks a week ago, this has been in the works for awhile and it's not just some plan that was fast tracked. JR & Co have been talking about this with the proper powers since last May.

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  16. Jerry made his millions in real estate. I don't think people realize how sharp he is when it comes to that type of stuff. Keep in mind, he's responsible for building 2 stadiums in his tenure here while the other owners simply struggled with getting their stadiums renovated. 

     

    I hate Jerry the baseball owner, but JR the business man is more than solid.

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  17. I would enjoy him on the team. He brings excitement and flair. Many of his problems were that he was a loud Hispanic in a clubhouse that wanted only quiet. I'm a huge Dodger fan (my NL team since I moved out there for a bit) and I will say Kershaw and Greinke created a divide that made him to be the enemy. That, unfortunately, followed him everywhere he went so he didn't get a legit shot afterwards. With the Braves, he got hurt and that was that. 

    I feel for him because he was maybe a year or two early. You see guys like Marcus Stroman or Tim Anderson who helped change people's minds that it's okay to be loud. 

     

    Puig's fault is not reading the room to be honest. 

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  18. 23 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

    Yes.  I mentioned this already in another thread.  Typically, just the announcement of an agreement to build a new sports stadium will increase the value of a franchise.  Months after the approval of a new Tennessee Titans stadium to be completed in 2027, the franchise’s value rose by 26% to $4.4 billion dollars.

    So JR could just be trying to raise the value of the Sox prior to a sale, and it’s possible that neither he nor his kids end up footing the entire bill for the eventual new ballpark, as the new owner(s) could be on the hook for it instead.

    It's this. JR is going to own that land, sell the team before he has to pay much of anything, and cash out on the Sox. The 78 going through would be a move that Sox fans should be getting behind if you could read the tea leaves.

     

    And the other thing is, as I said before, this is further along than people want to realize. Sox are very much aware of what used to be on that land. They're aware of "the challenges" which any plot of land presents. And whoever said "Sox fans won't even drive past it", that couldn't be further from the truth. Roosevelt is already a major road in Chicago. That Target (which is literally across the street on Roosevelt is the most popular one in Chicago. There's a ton of foot traffic there as is due to bars, restaraunts, grocery stores, etc. I would venture to bet, that place would be visited (forget "driven past") way more than GRF due to location.

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  19. 1 hour ago, Lip Man 1 said:

    I suspect JR won't be around to make any decisions like that when the time comes and has been previously posted MLB is not going to turn down expansion team money so a current franchise can move to a smaller location. 

     

    1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

    If that actually is true, then I would also wish all the pain on them while they're moving. 

    Apologies, it's not moving to another city, but moving the ballpark elsewhere in Chicago. He did look long and hard at the UC and that is considered the backup site. There are valid reasons why they didn't use that as their first choice which I can't get into. 

    1 hour ago, Dick Allen said:

    This will drag out for a while. I'd bet a lot of money that the White Sox don't move when their current lease ends. If, somehow, they do move to the 78, as long as it takes these things to hash out, and then actually build, they will, at the very least, be signing a short term extension.

    He won't be. The Sox are a lot further along than what fans think. There are different financial proposals that have been submitted and they have been working closely with the city. 

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  20. I was told that unless Jerry gets another deal similar to the last one at the Rate, they are moving. JR, apparently, has been aware of some time of building an area where people want to hang out at and looked at the costs as well as the opposition in Bridgeport for such like that. With that stated, this move is about moving to an environment where people can hang out as opposed to building it himself. It's about making the team and INF around it as strong as possible as he prepares for a sale. Was also told he has an idea of who wants to buy the team.

     

    Take it with a grain of salt. I haven't talked this person in awhile as I really haven't care for the Sox in awhile.

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