G&T

Well, even if you do bluff or lie, everyone just learns that you're full of shit. So they don't listen. I've had lawyers lie, and usually it's very obvious and causes everyone to dig in their heels. In sports, they only have a few weeks to negotiate, so you can't let that happen.

I'm a transactional attorney negotiating real estate and financial deals. In my experience handling complex contracts, each party has a different set of goals and a deal is more complex than just money, and lying doesn't really get you anywhere. You argue for what you want based on logic, not on what someone else is doing, because each party will have goals that they have to work within. Obviously I don't work in sports, but from my experience, it would work something like this: Machado might accept a total dollar amount of $X, or an average value of $X, plus a minimum number of years, and opt outs at certain times, etc. Each team can give and take within those parameters. So even if a team is offering more total dollars and years, they might get beat by higher annual contract amount plus early opt out. So, the Sox, for example, might not want an early opt and will make up for it with more money and a no-trade clause or something. It really isn't comparable to a car negotiation. The package each team offers is too complicated to simplify to just money. And the location and competitiveness of an organization could have value to the player as well which is very difficult to monetize.

Wallace Matthews

Just to add a little, he said he was told the Yankees were thinking a contract would be in the $220M - $270M range, but they would be at the low end. He said they haven't offered a contract because it just seems like Machado is just sitting around and nothing is really happening.

Yeah, but it could be that they were talking low ball numbers to begin with. If the Phillies wanted him, and know the Sox are out there with a pot of money, why not put a serious offer on the table a week ago? I don't want to derail this thread with Machado, but the Sox appear to be serious, and I think the Sox met the dollar requirement for Machado. Anyway, why wouldn't the Sox match a number from the Phillies given that they are bringing in Yonder and Jay? Leaks to the media are frequently directed at informing fans, and it looks better to Philly fans if they looks like they made a serious run. If I'm wrong about this, then it says that the Sox are acquiring Manny's friends without any indication Manny will sign, or haven't met his price. I prefer not to believe that because it's a strange choice. But, if the Sox don't sign Machado this week, then I will become a skeptic that they get either player. Until then, I'm confident.

I think a better way to read it is that the Sox have met his demand for money, and can spend on making him happy in other ways. If he just wanted $13M, I think the Sox would given it to him.

I think they are out on Machado. I suspect they will make an offer, but only to appease their fans. Why bother with Harper right now except that the only other team clearly interested is neck deep with Machado? Boras doesn't seem to be in any rush. It makes sense for the Phillies to try to pull something together before the Sox have the chance to bid. Regardless of whether the Sox actually can get both Machado and Harper, another team means higher bids.

Look, if the Sox made an formal offer, then the total dollars aren’t the issue. There could be other issues, but I doubt it’s money. The Sox suck right now and it would be nice if Machado could enjoy a bad year with some friends. I suspect that’s why they are doing this.

Then I would hope the Sox would charter a flight.

Ya know, you don't sign contracts in person anymore. Even if he were on a plane to Chicago, it has nothing to do with this deal.

It depends on his source. The Sox seem to be using Levine and Nightengale so I don’t think Rosenthal got this from them.

One reason an agent does this is to drive the fan bases to push their team to pony up more. Fear of losing season ticket holders for coming up short. Does it work? Probably not, but you can see the fury on this site when bad news gets leaked. Teams leak to do the opposite. They may also seek to drive down the market. I doubt these strategies really work. This leak though is strange to me because it doesn’t take four sources on one side to confirm the report. Particularly if the source is directly involved. It seems like both sides would have confirmed it.

The Sox didn’t make a formal offer (whatever that means) without some material terms being in the ballpark of what Machado wants. Further, they wouldn’t be the first team to make the offer if they didn’t think it would hold up against any other team.

Isn’t four sources a lot of sources to be talking about this? Can’t just be one side of the deal leaking can it?

Here's a fun guess: the Phillies are out and are now telling their fans they tried hard. Has bucket commented on Machado? I find it interesting that he commented on Harper, but the rumors are flying today on Machado. I'm wondering if Machado has agreed to deal with the Sox, and now they are after Harper. I have been overly optimistic about this whole saga, and, frankly, I don't care if they get either. But the logical landing spot for both has always been the south side.

And everyone is talking about baseball in the winter. So, it works.

I'm realizing that there is one reason the Sox would leak this: there are no other competitive offers and the Sox know it. Seven years might just be the most out there. I'd wager that this was leaked because Harper is talking to the Nats, and the Sox want it known that no one else is going over 7 years. I think the Nationals were the only team offering 10, and when it came out that Harper went back to the Nationals, the Sox leaked this. Sox contract average salary might be higher than $30M. The Sox may also want it known that this is their best and final. I suspect it is beyond other team's offers because fans would be pissed if it turns out the Sox were well short of a competitive offer. Which we are already seeing here. Of course, the leak may have come from Boras, which would change things. But he wouldn't want that known.

Passan didn't cite a source. Here's the quote: So the only part attributed to a source is that Harper will wait until February for the right deal. The first sentence is based on assumed accuracy in previous reports. Why would the Sox bother responding to that? It's not different than any information that came out over the last few weeks.

As I said several pages back, baseball has not been kind to aging free agents. Going back to free agency at age 31-33 for a 3 year deal may not get them the total dollars that they can get today on a 10 year deal, even if they do perform at a high level.

It's starting to be clear that they want to solidify the infield, but really don't need to spend Machado money/years to do it, and don't seem to want to. The deal they would make with Machado probably makes him a free agent again at age 30/31. 10 years ago, this would have been great. However, with the way teams are pushing for youth, I don't think it is smart play to assume Machado would make more money in 4 or 5 years than he can make on one contract today. Plus he would get opt outs if he really is performing.

Nothing worse than bottling day. A few of those and you’ll be buying a kegerator. Also, congratulations! Enjoy!

Not if the Yankees aren’t serious contenders. Just because everyone says Manny wants the Yankees doesn’t mean he actually does. It’s been a convenient bargaining chip so far. Anyway, the simplest explanation for having no confirmation either way from national guys is because they aren’t bothering to check sources based on this report. Even if they were getting “no comments” at this point it would be news.

I would love to know which friend of Manny knows this information and would leak it so quickly. It’s almost as if...Manny wanted the information out. Or it’s BS.

Until proven otherwise, I agree with you. The Sox become instant contenders in a weak division with major prospects on their way. Plus both get paid. It makes as much sense as expecting teams to unload salary to bring these guys in. The only reason it seems so implausible is the amount of money required to make it happen. Whatever, I'm believing.

meh. Evidence suggests that these deals don't work out that great for any team. Frankly, getting one of them barely moves the needle on the rebuild timeline. This whole drama is related to team relevance.