WCSox

QUOTE (Ranger @ Apr 17, 2011 -> 05:14 PM) No reprimand. That's good to hear. I also deal with complete idiots on a daily basis at my job. Sometimes it's difficult to hold back.

QUOTE (Tex @ Apr 16, 2011 -> 03:27 AM) I just realized how much Frank Thomas sucked. Yeah, he didn't even get on base half the time. What a bum.

In case nobody's pointed it out yet, Dunn hit a two-run homer this evening.

I'd prefer Santos, because Sale's command doesn't seem to be there yet. But I'm fine either way. I imagine that Sale will eventually be our closer.

Yeah, despite the obvious flaws, I still like this team.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Apr 13, 2011 -> 02:16 PM) I fear Thornton's one trick pony show is over. Thornton reminds me of Jon Garland: He can't throw an offspeed pitch for strikes, so he relies heavily on location. When his command isn't there, hitters just sit back, wait for him to get behind in the count, and tee off of his fastball. I don't know what to make of Thornton at this point... other than the fact that he can't be relied upon to hold a lead right now.

I foresee Kenny having to procure bullpen help by the deadline. Uggh...

Way to bounce back from last night. And what a game from Alexei!

I'm sure that at least a few players were taking amphetamines (greenies). Baseball's a dirty sport. We may have cheated less than other teams, but we're not above it.

QUOTE (qwerty @ Apr 12, 2011 -> 04:38 PM) I made note of this in another thread. Pena would have had more than enough rest to go at least one, if not two innings. Even if he couldn't go two... crain would have been more than capable of going one inning after his 1.1 innings the day prior... as the day before that was an off day. So how i see it, there was no valid reason for jackson to go back out there at that point, it certainly was not because the entire bullpen needed rest. Pena is a mop-up guy, not the type you want out there to hold a lead. So that basically leaves Crain, who would then be unavailable to pitch the following day. Or Santos, who would also be unavailable the following day if he had to throw both the 8th and 9th. Perhaps I give Ozzie too much credit, but I'm assuming that he was thinking about what his bullpen options would be the following day as well. I still think that these two scenarios are not all that similar. The Sox bullpen was taxed significantly more before Jackson's last start, and that undoubtedly played a role in Ozzie keeping Jackson in. That and the availability of Thornton last night, who is supposedly the most dominant pitcher in that 'pen. I didn't get to see Mark's start last night, but I did see Jackson's on my day off last Thursday. He had absolutely filthy stuff, even in the later innings. So there's even more reason to let him pitch the 8th. Fine, how about 16-21 pitches to get him to 115-120? That's pretty typical for an inning of work, especially in the 9th when his arm is tired and he may let a runner or two on. As I've said before, what's the point of making Mark throw 115-120 pitches this early in the season when you have a fresh closer and a few others in the bullpen who are rested enough enough handle an inning of work. If you can't trust Thornton to hold a one-run lead, you need a new closer. Hell, maybe Ozzie wanted to use last night as one last chance to see if Thornton would sink or swim before taking him out of the closer role.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Apr 12, 2011 -> 03:38 PM) And I'm totally fine with that. If Ozzie had said this I wouldn't have a problem at all. But saving Mark on April 11th? Not buying it. IIRC, arms tend to not always be fully-conditioned at this point in the season. I can't speak about Mark's specifically, but I could understand why a manager wouldn't want a guy throwing 130 pitches in early/mid-April after maybe one or two 6+ inning starts in ST.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Apr 12, 2011 -> 03:22 PM) If we have to treat a soft-tosser like Mark with kid gloves from here on out then I don't want him back next year. That's just me. I don't consider pulling a starter after 99 pitches treating him "with kid gloves." Considering that very few managers let their starters go more than 115 or 120 pitches, 99 is still an appreciable amount. Unless the entire bullpen was sucking wind (like in Jackson's case), pulling him at that point seems pretty reasonable. In addition, I think that last night's decision had a lot to do with Ozzie testing Thornton. For all I know, it could've been the main reason.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Apr 12, 2011 -> 03:16 PM) Mark's FB tops out at 85 MPH. His cutter has changeup-like velocity. Ozzie is full of it if he's claiming to be "saving" Mark this f***ing early in the season. No disrespect to anybody in particular, but I get the feeling Ozzie or Kenny could convince some of you that you have a twin growing out of your ass if they really wanted to. I don't have a problem with Ozzie pulling Mark (though I did disagree with it at the time). But the reasoning is insulting. It used to top out at 91, and the decline has to with the number of innings he's pitched.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Apr 12, 2011 -> 11:51 AM) Kyle Farnsworth wasn't a very good reliever so it isn't surprising he wasn't a good closer and Howry was nowhere near the pitcher that Thornton is. And Thornton wasn't nearly the pitcher than Farnsworth and Howry were when he was in Seattle. He wasn't even that good in his first year in Chicago. It's only the past three years that he's been dominant. So I can't say that I'm shocked that a guy with his background and who can only throw one pitch for strikes is struggling right now. I don't disagree. And yet, he suddenly can't pitch anymore. It could be a mechanical flaw, or it could be that more hitters are watching film of him and are better prepared to face him.

QUOTE (qwerty @ Apr 12, 2011 -> 11:45 AM) Was sending jackson back out there for the 8th inning the right choice when he was right around 100 pitches with a 5 run lead? Jackson ended up with 119 thrown. Seems like there was no reason for him to go out for the 8th. Jackson was pitching the day after back-to-back 12-inning games. The decision to leave him in was about giving the bullpen a badly-needed rest.

QUOTE (IamtheHBOMB @ Apr 12, 2011 -> 09:52 AM) I wonder if Cooper has ever approached Thornton about learning another pitch. His slider is not a good secondary pitch. I'm not saying that it would solve his current problems (as locating his fastball better would probably do it), but it would be interesting to know. Thornton should've learned to throw an offspeed pitch for strikes years ago. Most people with his lack of a pitching repertoire don't make very good closers (Bob Howy, Kyle Farnsworth, etc.). Mo Rivera is the one notable exception - only so because his cutter is almost unhittable and his command of it is Maddux-like.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 12, 2011 -> 10:14 AM) But the point is that Ozzie HAS TO TRUST the guys on his roster. Bingo. And on top of that, he has to determine who he can and cannot trust this season. And the only way to do that is to run those guys out there and let them sink or swim.

QUOTE (Tex @ Apr 12, 2011 -> 10:44 AM) Clearly the only gambles worth taking are the ones that work out, the rest are stupid managerial decisions. You can't trust your closer to close games, so keep in your starters. The manager destroys arms by having the guys work too many innings. Players want managers that will pull them right before disaster. Players want managers who will trust them to do their jobs. Yeah, pretty much. Lots of silly Monday Morning Quarterbacking going on here. Pulling MB after 99 pitches was the right move. It's mid-April, he's still building arm strength, and he has a gazillion innings of wear and tear on that arm to begin with. You don't leave your starting pitcher in there just because your closer gives up too many extra-base hits in save situations, or because your left fielder can't catch. You also don't blame your manager for lack of player execution.

I thought that Floyd wasn't supposed to pitch like this until June??? Nice surprise. QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Apr 10, 2011 -> 01:23 PM) This team has a chance to be really good. They do. The offense and starting pitching are there. The defense has been atrocious so far, but history has shown that they'll improve significantly there. They only question in the bullpen.

Agreed that Santos is probably the best Plan B. I like Sale over the long run, but I don't think that his command is there yet.

QUOTE (knightni @ Apr 10, 2011 -> 10:25 AM) Ozzie says "rotating closers" in an article today. http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/news...x_cid=nhffromfb Apparently Ozzie lacks faith in Thornton as well. He's always gone with a traditional closer in the past, so why would he suddenly change his philosophy? Personally, I'd give Thornton a few more save opportunities before I announced that I was making role changes in my bullpen.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Apr 10, 2011 -> 09:27 AM) In other news, I don't think I could respect Maddon more than I do. I agree. Very solid manager as well.

QUOTE (mmmmmbeeer @ Apr 9, 2011 -> 07:56 PM) Maddon already said it was a bad move my Lopez. I think it's done, no reason to throw at him. I agree, let's just play ball and win the series. The Rays are 1-7, their window of opportunity is quickly closing, and they can't draw flies to their crappy ballpark. There's no point in getting our players suspended or injured to "send a message" to these losers.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Apr 8, 2011 -> 10:31 PM) Homer wasnt earned because had the Sox made the 2 outs previously the inning would have been over. Ive never kept score but it was my understanding that if the out(s) would have ended the inning then the runs scored after are unearned. I see. Despite what the box score says, Thorton still s*** his pants tonight.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Apr 8, 2011 -> 09:33 PM) I'm pretty sure one of them was. Because Upton's single happened before the second error. I'm not great with box scores, but I'm pretty sure that the homer he gave up to Johnson was earned.