Dick Allen

QUOTE (JohnCangelosi @ Sep 29, 2008 -> 06:23 PM) "THERE IS NO TOMORROW" (Apollo Creed in one of those Rocky flicks) I understand not saving anybody. I'm just hoping the guys Ozzie throws in there can do the job so they don't have to use everyone.

QUOTE (kjshoe04 @ Sep 29, 2008 -> 06:21 PM) Dotel worries me. especially now that thornton has been used. He has some control. You can tell with him pretty fast how he'll fare. If Sheffield hits one hard, yank him.

OC was probably too busy being a clown before the game.

I just hope the Sox can somehow not gas the relievers who can get people out. They may need them tomorrow.

Maybe Ozzie took Thornton out so OC could have a chance to phone the press box

Was Alexei crying tears of joy, or is he sad DJ is leaving?

Now its enter White Sox bullpen. Nice to have a cushion.

I love Gary Glover.

QUOTE (smalls2598 @ Sep 29, 2008 -> 02:01 PM) According to the Score, the game will start a half hour after the tarp is removed. The question, of course, is when will the tarp be removed. Wow, they have great insiders.

QUOTE (almagest @ Sep 29, 2008 -> 11:36 AM) You continually miss the point. I don't think he sucks and always will. He sucks this year, and has had a mediocre minor league career. I don't see what about this means he'll become Rickey Henderson II. You stated this: And no, I wouldn't want him on the Sox. He's all attitude, no ability. You constantly harp on his performance and say he has no ability. Your words. I also never said he would be Rickey Henderson II. That was Hawk, I think he be below that. All I said was Jerry Owens couldn't hold his jock and you won't change my mind.

QUOTE (almagest @ Sep 29, 2008 -> 09:38 AM) Strawman. I never said a player who didn't post an .800 OPS in the minors had no chance of being a useful major league hitter. I said there's no reason to hype a guy who never posted an .800 OPS in the minors, because he hasn't come close to realizing the potential that made him a high-ranked prospect. You also continually miss the point that the players you mentioned have ALL had success either in college, Cuba, the minors, or very early in their major league careers. Carlos Gomez has had none of this so far. Please read the post I responded to. It wasn't even yours. I copy and pasted the quote in my answer. Then you tell me I'm cherry picking. The post said nobody. I mentioned a few off my head. I will say this, for a guy who never has had success and never will, he's pretty highly coveted around baseball. For a guy who never will have any success he sure did look pretty good last Thursday a game where if the White Sox won, they wouldn't have to bother with today or tomorrow. He's 22 years old. You think he sucks and always will, I think he'll turn into a good ballplayer and has already contributed. Why don't we leave it at that?

QUOTE (almagest @ Sep 29, 2008 -> 12:30 AM) You can cherry-pick former and current player stats all you want, but ALL of the players you mentioned had seasons in college, the minors, Cuba, and/or the majors early in their careers that justified their hype. Nothing Gomez has done so far in 5 years of professional baseball has merited any recognition. He's had a couple of decent minor league seasons, has a negative runs contributed value (-.145 MLVr), and is overall playing at replacement level (0.6 VORP) in the majors. He needs to vastly improve on his contact rate, his selectivity at the plate, and he needs to start hitting for more power before he comes close to the hype given to him as a prospect, and by himself. That's a pretty tall order, and lots of players with as much or more ability as him can't do that, so what makes him worth such a vehement defense? Considering the post I was answering included this: Any player who can't post a .800 OPS in the minors has no chance of ever being a useful Major League hitter. Why is it "cherry-picking" when I find 3 off the top of my head? Wouldn't just 1 suffice?

QUOTE (danman31 @ Sep 28, 2008 -> 12:58 PM) Carlos Gomez is awful at baseball. Stop trying to sugarcoat him into any sort of a talent. He has none. Any player who can't post a .800 OPS in the minors has no chance of ever being a useful Major League hitter. Robin Ventura didn't. Carlton Fisk did in low A ball, in 195 AB, but didn't after that. Jason Varitek never did. The only time Brian Roberts ever did was a 29 AB stint in rookie ball. Put things into perspective. Gomez is 9 months older than the latest White Sox #1 pick. He still hit .260. Stole 30 bases. Maybe that's not useful to you, but for a 22 year old its not bad. His OBP is .014 lower than Alexei Ramirez. It obviously needs some work, but he's only 22 with a ton of talent. I don't think he's as good as Hawk says he is, but he's certtainly a lot better than Jerry Owens.

QUOTE (joesaiditstrue @ Sep 28, 2008 -> 04:27 PM) Absolutely no reason why we can't win this game tomorrow, Tigers will be coming in tonight after going 11 innings against TB and losing, whereas our guys will have a full day of rest Just trying to stay positive (it's hard for me) That and the last thing the Tigers want to do is fly to Chicago and play a game when their season should be over. If the Sox don't win, its a choke.

QUOTE (Jake @ Sep 28, 2008 -> 03:47 PM) What time and channel? WGN 1pm

QUOTE (The Critic @ Sep 28, 2008 -> 05:58 AM) Since logic doesn't apply to this team, I'm left with nothing other than: They Can't Lose Them All.....Can They? I'm sure Hawk will mention how difficult it is to sweep a team a few times today.

Doesn't Buerhle usually have a tough time with Cleveland? I know he's pitched some great games against them, but I think he's worn it more than a couple times. It will be interesting since its short rest, he threw 120 pitches his last start and I really don't think Ozzie wants to call the bullpen phone. Does having Buerhle miss a spring training start come into play here? Buerhle is 1-5 with a 6.75 ERA against Cleveland the last 3 seasons. He's due.

QUOTE (almagest @ Sep 27, 2008 -> 09:10 PM) So what do these scouts say about Gomez? What has his mediocre 1.5 seasons on the majors done to impress them? Nothing about what Gomez currently is, or has been in the minors, points to him becoming anything special. Quite simply, he has a bunch of raw tools he hasn't done anything impressive with in 5 years. And no, I wouldn't want him on the Sox. He's all attitude, no ability. When he puts up an OPS of .800 or better at ANY professional level, he can punch his chest and scream and yell all he wants. Oh, and I guess Ventura's 3-time All-American, 58-game hitting streak, Golden Spikes Award, Dick Howser Trophy, .428 batting average, .792 slugging percentage, 302 RBI (in 3 years), and inaugural induction into the College Baseball Hall of Fame mean absolutely nothing because he hit with a metal bat. Right. None of that comes close to Gomez's magnificent .735 career MiLB OPS. Seriously, do you think before you post some of this? It took me all of 1 minute to check Wikipedia and find Ventura's gaudy college career numbers. You are right about one thing, though. Both were 22 year olds who need(ed) to improve. Except Ventura actually had a track record that indicated he had a good shot to improve -- Gomez has nothing but hype. Gomez was playing rookie professional ball at 18. You really think Ventura would put up the same numbers he did in college in rookie ball? Compare them at the same levels. How come Gomez in AA as a 20 year old had a higher OPS than Ventura had as a 21 year old in AA? You are the one that doesn't think. You are the one that has already written off a 22 year old talent because when he was 18 he didn't tear up the minor leagues. This is why I'm using Ventura as an example. Talented 22 year olds in the major leagues tend to improve. Hard for you to believe I'm sure. But even if he only improves slightly, and I think he'll improve You can't compare college stats with professional stats. You're boasting about a .428 college average, that turned into a .249 major league average with no power as a 22 year old. The funny thing is my point still is Jerry Owens can't hold Carlos Gomez's jock. Why don't you email KW and ask if he would trade Owens for Gomex. I bet he would say yes. I bet he would even give up more. Why don't you call into a radio program when they have some baseball people on and tell them how Jerry Owens is the same player as Carlos Gomez? Owens has a career sluggling pct. of .312. Gomez is 50 points higher as a 22 year old rookie. Yeah, they are the same player. Saying Carlos Gomez has no abililty while slamming me saying I don't think, is beyond hilarious.

QUOTE (almagest @ Sep 27, 2008 -> 07:40 PM) Except Ventura's numbers were at 22 in the majors, after only 1 year in the minors. Gomez has had 4 years in the minors. You keep glossing over this fact. You also gloss over Ventura's stellar college numbers, which Gomez hasn't even approached in any of his minor league seasons. I also sincerely doubt scouts will tell you numbers don't matter from 18-21. Most every scouting report I've seen mentions things like K/BB ratio. I bet that can tell you a lot about a player at any age -- Gomez has a "stellar" 82 BB / 250 K rate in 4 minor league seasons. Gomez also has an even more "stellar" 33 BB / 168 K rate in about 1.5 major league seasons. So, he has essentially no discipline so far, which sure doesn't help a speed guy. The stats I posted earlier also shows he has little power (low SLG), and can't hit much or walk (low AVG/OBP). Maybe you're right, and numbers don't matter that much at a young age, but Gomez has to improve in every single aspect of his game (besides speed) to become a good player, and he's going to have to improve a lot to earn that "5 tool player". Also, I like how you, a fan, are telling me, a fan, that I need to "ask a scout" about all these things. Since when did you go to scouting school and suddenly learn how to evaluate talent? You know no more than I do about it, except I at least have SOME evidence to back my opinion up. I do know several scouts. I never said numbers don't matter, I said they weren't all that important. Its what you can become being more important than what you currently are. You now are using Ventura's numbers in college using aluminum bats vs. Gomez playing professional baseball with wooden bats? That is as crazy as it gets. As 22 year olds, they were major league hitters needing to improve. Of course Gomez has to improve, but there's a very reasonable chance of that happening. Many don't like his brashness, but as I said earlier in the thread, I bet if he was a White Sox you and others would have a different opinion of him. I bet you wouldn't think he was a Jerry Owens clone if he was a White Sox.

Dewayne Wise struck out. Who'd of thunk it?

QUOTE (Friend of Nordhagen @ Sep 27, 2008 -> 09:00 PM) Call Soxtalk on your iPhone. I'll have to stand up and wave all game long. Yesterday a girl got a foul ball. The guy she was with was standing up waving for about 3 batters.

The good news is I will be in the scout seats tomorrow acting like a Wrigley yuppie.

Too bad Javy isn't eligible to PH right now. Considering the score, I bet he'd get a hit.

12-6 Its Swisher time.

QUOTE (Friend of Nordhagen @ Sep 27, 2008 -> 08:54 PM) The pen was struggling for a few weeks, but going to a 4-man rotation really plays with your whole staff, including the pen. Managers start managing differently to save guys, and the pen begins working harder. It's just a mess. A total, f***ing panic move. I never really thought if it like that, but your comments make a lot of sense.