Fantl916

i really do like this move. solid offensive catcher who's capable defensively. reasonable contracts for a definitive improvement. could be a good trade asset moving forward too. good buy in my book

Rosenthal reporting Jennings traded to Rays for Casey Gillespie. LOVE IT!!!

i mean... oneil isnt the coolest thing on the planet but hes a legit prospect... we couldnt give gonzo + swarzek + whatever for that? marco gonzalez is a 4/5 sp at best... this screams seattle not talking to others about this and settling for the first thing that came their way

Assuming there's no way Texas trades Odor, or perhaps Mazara, is there's a path to complete this without them? I'm pondering if something like Yeody Taveras, Yohender Mendez, Ronald Guzman and another piece would do it. seems really light to me

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jan 31, 2017 -> 06:31 AM) Keith Law's White Sox Prospect overview: http://www.espn.com/blog/keith-law/insider/post?id=6460 Pretty glowing about Alec Hansen and Basabe. Thinks Fulmer, Lopez,and Burdi are all probably relievers but really good ones. He likes Amado Nunez. he does paint a picture that i've thought for the last month or so... if for some reason Fulmer and Lopez end up in the bullpen we could back into a pretty amazing bullpen situation similar to the yankees/royals/indians of the past couple years. Burdi, Fulmer, Lopez in the 7th, 8th, 9th would be pretty sick. he also has pretty glowing comments on Curbelo and Dunning. havent seen these kind of positive comments about our depth in some time.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Jan 28, 2017 -> 03:46 PM) Robertson for Vlad would be amazing. Rowdy Tellez, Bo Bichette could be interesting pieces

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 27, 2017 -> 02:08 PM) If he won't rank guys he thinks are relievers, and doesn't like small SP's it makes sense he wouldn't like Fulmer guys, nobody should be surprised by law's omissions of fulmer, lopez. he's always done this, omitting pitchers he doesn't think can start long term. he's a huge proponent of advanced statistics, especially WAR, and to him a #3/4 SP is more valuable than an elite closer because they have more impact on WAR. in a way, i agree with him. we're about to witness a 2017 season where the yankees have an elite bullpen but their terrible sp will ensure they suck. whereas if you flipped that to a solid staff and iffy bullpen you could be a playoff team (ie dodgers of previous years). i really do hope lopez proves him wrong, and i think he's in no better organization for that based on what cooper did w sale (who law admits he also applied the reliever tag to). but to defend keith's thought process, you all will be disappointed if lopex and fulmer end up in the bullpen. if they do there's no doubt they'll be hi leverage rps, but you'll still wish they wouldve made it as sps. in the end, he doesnt hate the sox, or any other team for that matter so saying such it wacky. he gave favorite reviews of collins and kopech, still thinks very highly of giolito and was slightly below others but still very high on moncada. he hates relievers, that's not new

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jan 26, 2017 -> 07:43 AM) He might not have Keller in the top 20....I'm thinking for sure he has: Moncada, Giolito, Kopech, Swanson, Benintendi, Reyes, Rodgers, Meadows, Robles, Crawford, Rosario, Devers, Torres, Jimenez, Groome, Bellinger, and Senzel. That leaves 3 spots for: Josh Bell, Tyler, Jay, Nick Williams, and Brady Aiken probably. I'm guessing the other 3 in his top 20 are Keller, tyler O'Neil, and Francisco mejia

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 25, 2017 -> 12:28 PM) Yea I'm just trolling GOT YOU GUYS haha I was kidding all along. i never said you were kidding, you're just whining, providing no factual rationale or any historical comp. you're harping on something that's never been done in a way you're suggesting and stating that the Sox are garbage because of it. when asked to provide information, you spin it, whine some more, and restate the same thing you've been stating for the last month on the 2 quintana threads. aka, you're trolling. you can certainly make your stance, whatever. i want them to make moves too. but at some point your argument grows tiresome if your defense for everything is "im taking my ball and going home (RH sucks because they're not taking lowball offers)"

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 25, 2017 -> 12:19 PM) Not the White Sox! They've dealt two of their best players (for non-baseball reasons) and a crummy reliever. I would be happy if they made just a couple more moves, like just get rid of Frazier and Robertson so Saladino can sink-or-swim at 3rd and Jones can try and close games. That would save them like $30m that could go into int'l pool or elsewhere and maybe net them one t30 guy. It'd also prove me wrong about why they dealt Sale and Eaton. he isnt going to answer this question or provide any sensible rationale. at this point he's just trolling

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 25, 2017 -> 11:40 AM) Been waiting since last July and only three guys have been traded. Its not supposed to be this slow. Says who? Based on what? It's clearly not happening that way so please share why it should be the opposite based on actual facts. Also, remember the Cubs rebuild took multiple years, but I'm dying to know why the Sox rebuild should take 6-8 months

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 25, 2017 -> 11:07 AM) Honestly there is only one org where a GM responsible for this mess would be in charge of cleaning it up and its the White Sox. Hahn has been getting killed in the trade market pretty much non stop since arriving here. edit- I should say since arriving in his new role the negative rhetoric coming from you at this point is just ridiculous. by all accounts, RH has done incredibly well in the trade market since the team changed directives to sell. when you're going for it, you trade youth. the only trade that's been terrible is the shields trade, but it's because shields sucked and tatis has turned into something promising. but again this was under a different directive from management, and wasn't us selling off the farm as it was a long shot low minors prospect for a veteran that happened to suck royally the idea that RH should just take what he can get for frazier, abreu, etc is awful. this is precisely what happened when KW would sell off pieces and these trades almost always yield little to nothing of consequence. Your argument that we should do it just so we can suck harder is wrong for 2 reasons: 1) youre just accepting lesser returns and not leveraging your position 2) there's no guarantee it helps you return to competitiveness faster. just look at the A's and Rays, they've been terrible for multiple years now and sell off guys all the time. neither has a strong farm nor are getting the kind of draft picks that are getting them closer to being competitive. everyone just needs to be patient. a rebuild doesnt happen overnight, and whining about guys not being trading yet is just so tiresome to constantly read. it's like nothing will make you happy...

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jan 24, 2017 -> 08:56 AM) Law is high on younger players it seems. I'm no expert, but I would tend to favor prospects further along in their development in the top 100 until they have proven more in the minor leagues Delvin Perez has talent, but #61 based on his play in rookie ball (admittedly impressive for an 18 year old) is high Law's rankings look smart for picking players that could rise up, but also I'll bet alot of these deep dives are out of the top 100 by mid season due to over projection law has always valued potential over proximity. the full-season low minors, high ceiling guys are the ones that typically occupy the 50-100 slots in his rankings. you wont see many more past that (maybe maitan, ocuna, keller, espinoza, groome)

sigh... all this talk of team composition "RH must have hitters or we'll suck" at the beginning of the rebuild... just seems so reactionary... please RH just get the best package of talent possible, regardless of how much hitting is in the deal. friendly reminder to all that we already have anderson, collins, moncada as part of the rebuild. we'll likely get at least 1 hitter in a quintana trade (pretend it's newman or tucker), and will have several high draft picks in the coming years. not to mention what we have abreu and frazier that could also bring something. perhaps basabe turns into something you can always trade for hitting if need be. we have 2-3 years to build or rotation and lineup for a championship run. there really isn't a point to keeping quintana because he's more valauble to you now as a trade piece, even if it's for pitching, then he is 2 years from now when the sox are competitive again

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 05:18 PM) My guess for rest of offseason: Trade Q Trade Robertson Put Jones in as closer, Trade Jones at deadline. Can't move melky for more than a salary dump. Sox need to make decision if Frazier return is better than a 2nd or 3rd round salary allotment. +1 I think you ride out Frazier and abreu until their market improves. Otherwise take the picks

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 04:15 PM) Me neither, but hey, when in Rome, right? Well this thread is officially the worst...

Just one reset on why everyone wants a rebuild, since I've seen it alluded to several times but never directly said... Several folks have talked about us rostering Beckham Tekotte Reinzo etc in prominent roles as we have tried to compete each year. It will largely be the same in the near term as we strip it down. This is symptomatic of a single issue: organizational depth. What the Cubs astros achieved in their rebuilds is just that. They did luck out and get some stars out of it too, but what can be said about both orgs is that they are loaded too to bottom. This allows them to be strategic in whom they bring up, trade, sign, etc. It also can backfire. The twins are currently struggling to quickly turn it around. The rays, a's, padres are all in meh situations. But what the Sox have to do to avoid pigeon-holing themselves to having to foster below league average guys while trying to win is to build organizational depth. Whether you like it or not, the Sox are trying to address the core (no pun intended) issue. While it doesn't guarantee anything, it could lead to sustained success. For that reason I don't think anyone should be caring about which position we are getting or competing in 17-18. Just root for the best package possible on each deal, support the kids, and trust Hahn to blow a champion slowly. Remember, the best brisket you can find is usually done low and slow . Try to nuke it and that ish dries out (a+ analogy ftw!!!)

QUOTE (hi8is @ Dec 24, 2016 -> 09:53 PM) Oh, you mean the 3rd baseman who had 15 stolen bases in like 60 games? Yep that's the one. Rookie ball stats ftw!!! A snippet on him from baseball prospectus: 2016 Stats: .271/.359/.449, 8 HR, 15 SB in 62 games at short-season Bluefield The Good: He doesn’t look like his father, and putting a Hall of Fame comp on him, bloodlines or no, would be irresponsible. However you’d be forgiven, if you caught Vladito on the right day, for seeing a bit of the same controlled violence that marked his father’s swing. He already has plus raw as a teenager, and it isn’t hard to see him finding another grade of raw as he enters his twenties. He has enough feel for the barrel, even when swinging out of his shoes like his pops, to make the power play in games too. The Bad: I do wonder if he rates as highly on this list with a different last name, although baseball bloodlines can be important. I guess you can dream big and imagine Vlad, Jr. one day hitting like his father, but that is where the comp will have to end. He’s already a large human being, with a very thick midsection and lower half. At 17. He’s likely a first baseman in the end and that will put an awful lot of pressure on the offensive profile to have a strong patrilineal influence. The stolen bases are more an artifact of every Tom, Dick, and Vladdy being able to steal in the low minors. He’s already a below-average runne The Role: OFP 60—Above-average major league first baseman Likely 45—Second-division starter at first base The Risks: Vladito’s precocious performance as a 17-year-old in the Appalachian League is nice and all, but he’s still a future first baseman in short-season ball. This could go any which way in the coming years. Major league ETA: 2021

QUOTE (hi8is @ Dec 24, 2016 -> 09:33 PM) Who's this rookie ball first baseman with no speed that you speak of? Vlad Guerrero jr

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 24, 2016 -> 08:58 PM) Absolutely. So in your quest for bats you'd rather have a rookie ball 1b w no speed who's 4 years away at best... over most the others? Vlad jr is not his dad. Personally I'd rather have pieces that will help in the next 1-2.5 years. Basabe is prob 2.5 away... add another 1.5 to vlad jr. Quintanas contract would expire before he sees the majors Get prospects that come thru in the same wave, will lead to a faster turnaround

The cool part I take from this is that we should be getting a big package of quality for Quintana. That should be a positive for everyone. That rumored package from that 3way was massive and would be 100% worth dealing Quintana. The idea that we can get Glasnow + a couple more sweet guys (per Rabbit) is awesome. I would think everyone would be pumped for something like Glasnow + Keller + Newman +'Diaz or something of the like. This is really exciting

Everyone needs to chill on sentiments around trading for specific needs. You should be using your biggest guns to just get a talent infusion. Who cares if that talent is predominantly pitching. We can draft hitting in the coming drafts and focus our free agent money on that. Plus having a deep system means you can always be a player in trades. I personally don't want a lesser package if it means getting hitters. And I don't want a crappy catching prospect in lieu of an OF or arm with much much higher upside. I think this rationale I'm seeing a ton of here on this thread is how teams squander opportunities to get the best players. You see it all the time in the NFL draft, a team passes on a megastar whatever to draft a guard because "it's a need". Just take the best effing player

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 04:41 AM) Who would their 1B be if they traded Bell? Can't see them subtracting from their major league roster unless they have an obvious replacement. I think this is a good point. Should we trade w the Pirates I would assume that Bell, Glasnow and Hanson are all off the table because they're in the majors (especially Bell and Hanson). It makes too much sense for a deal to be centered around Meadows, Newman and other pieces.

Yes please!!! I think a package of Austin Meadows, Kevin Newman, Mitch Keller and Yuedy Garcia sounds about right. That would fit the "95% of Sale" model and be a great depth trade with plenty of upside. Substitute Kingham in for one of the pitchers would also be fine. I've always thought the Pirates lined up so well w the Sox here, considering their payroll restrictions and inability to get a massive haul for McCutchen. Lack of frontline pitching has really been what's held them back of late. imagine Quintana in that ballpark w that defensive behind him. He'd be Cy Young contender good.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 19, 2016 -> 09:38 AM) I think the main flaw in this thinking is you think Pineda is good. But regardless, the only reference anyone made about Pineda was from me, and it was about taking on a reclamation project like him largely outside a Quintana framework.. I think you over estimate the market for below average starting pitchers with 1 year left on their deal. His last two years starting Pineda has an average ERA of 4.59. However, his FIP is lower and there is a chance he'd be a good 1-for-1 dump if you think you know something others don't. If you want to apply that stuff to Severino, Judge, Sanchez, etc, I get it, but Pineda isn't that. sure, that makes sense. just seemed interesting that his name even came up. i'd assume most would rather have a solid prospect w years of control over pineda w 1 yr hoping a) coop fixes him and b) you then sign him to a longer deal at a reasonable price