peteward

I stated that you have a grudge against me from the Yahoo White Sox forum and that you seek to extract revenge for that on a forum where you have obtained some administrative privilege. Your abuse of those privileges proves my point.

John Danks article that I enjoyed reading a lot

I don't understand your anger, your accusation of "trolling" or your thinly veiled threat of expulsion from the forum. First you were wrong in ascribing the opinion of the physician who performed this surgery on mlb pitchers to me. The entire paragraph was from an article that was properly linked. You failed to read it before casting your opinion. You chose to ignore the opinion of the surgeon that actually performed this operation on numerous occasions in favor of an anonymous physical therapist that posts on this forum. I did not choose to continue this thread. However, in addition to the fact that the article I posted with a very thorough analysis of this from a specialist, a suggestion was made that Danks capsule tear was "not a significant injury." Do you think that is a reasonable assessment of the injury? I have no agenda on John Danks injury but is seems clear to me that others choose to ignore what has been learned from similar surgical procedures and the physician that performed them. Based on that information I simply stated that none of us know how long it will take for Danks to return to his prior form. It could be a few weeks or perhaps a few months. Perhaps he will never be exactly the same as he was years ago. We just don't know. You have no basis under the rules of this forum to expel me. I have conducted myself properly here and have not even approached the level of anger, the type of sarcasm, the hatred, or the vulgarity that some have used. I can only conclude from your threat that you have an agenda and that agenda is to eliminate me from the forum for some reason that has nothing to do with any violation of the rules. Given that, I am not going to respond to you further because this is truly a bunch of nonsense and a waste of time.

The code of conduct here states that it pertains to all posters, regardless of the amount of posts they have accumulated.

False. Those are not my words. That is a quote I cited from an article which pertained to actual capsule injuries to other major league pitchers. The man who used those words was none other than Mets medical director Dr. David Altchek, the surgeon who operated on Saberhagen at the Hospital for Special Surgery in Manhattan and who also did Santana's repair. Want to apologize now? Interesting to see that you insist on engaging me on what is really, a non-issue, especially when it seems like you as well as a few others have not bothered to read the article I cited. This is information from a surgeon who has actually done these surgeries on pitchers like Santana, not an unnamed, anonymous physical therapist professing to be an expert in a highly specialized area. Meanwhile I have had another legitimate new thread removed by someone. What is up with that? What is going on here with this kind of nonsense? Is this a forum for genuine Sox fans like myself or a den for trolls?

Of course you are misquoting AND providing a false characterization of what I said. I never stated that Danks is or isn't "healthy" but in any case, his health is not the issue. Danks feels fine and the shoulder may well be healed structurally...but the fact is that he can't pitch at a near an acceptable level as a starter, as demonstrated in his last four starts which have been abysmal Danks further away from Chicago after ugly fourth outing If you want to believe he will return earlier than other pitchers have from this kind of injury and surgical procedure, fine. I hope he does and that you are right. The fact remains though that this is just conjecture and wishful thinking.

Don't know if this has been discusses by YOU already but, White Sox Sign Indy Speedster Darian Sandford We do need someone to pinch run and steal a base. While it is true that no one on the prospective 25 man roster is really a speedster there is just no available roster spot for a guy like this.

My point is the opposite of what you suggest. There is no "proof" of when Danks could return to form. The closest examples of this kind of injury to a pitcher and the surgical repair and rehab suggest that the recovery may take longer than some, including Ventura predicted. He had no basis to make that prediction given that other pitchers who sustained that injury and had that surgical procedure took two years to recover. I am starting to discern an attitude or demeanor that is common to some posters. "We've discussed this....what proof do you have...."

"The fact that he was throwing painfree on a regular schedule for spring training tells you he will pitch this season." That is a mere presumption that is not based on fact. It is precisely the sort of wishful thinking that resulted in Ventura believing that Danks would be ready at the start of the season. Again, the fact is that no one knows when Danks will return to his prior form or even if he will. If you disagree with that, you are welcome to your opinion, but that is based on your belief, nothing more. As far as predictions on rehabilitation from injury. How about Derrick Rose? He feels OK and reportedly can dunk, but he is not able to play. No one can predict when he will return with any certainty. This situation is similar. Just accept the fact. Regarding Santana's similar injury return to being close to his prior form: " The small number of pitchers who have undergone the procedure thus far leaves recovery timetable estimates imprecise. It's too small a number to really be confident about when they're going to come back, and how to exactly manage their recovery," Altchek says. "We're still feeling our way through, quite honestly. It obviously takes a minimum of a year. That's the absolute minimum. And probably the average is going to net out to be closer to two." Wang similarly made his major league return on the two-year anniversary of his anterior capsule surgery. Inside Johan Santana's comeback

The injury was significant as is ANY injury that requires surgery. And, yes, I am concerned about the likelihood of Danks not being able to return any time soon. That is a rational and reasonable thought given what I know, it isn't an "attitude."

RV was obviously wrong about the relative severity of a capsule tear (which he knows about as much about as we do) and in stating that Danks would be ready for the beginning of this season, no problem. OK, RV meant well and was being positive, but at the same time you don't want to raise false expectations. The fact remains that there is no way to tell when Danks will return if at all this season. We do not even know what the details of the surgical procedure were, i.e., how large the tear or damage was, whether there is any scar tissue in the capsule from the repair, and how they capsule will mechanically impact throwing motion, location of pitches, and velocity. As to the velocity of Danks pitches, it has been reported that he touched 90 but if you saw the last game he pitched, they must have been using a speed gun that was not calibrated recently. The hitters had enough time to hitch up and take softball swings at his pitches. I hope Danks comes back strong because we need him in the rotation and not Axelrod or Santiago. Also, it will make my signed Danks stuff worth more.

I saw the conversation but there still seems to be some question about what exactly was done in the surgery and how that specific surgical procedure will impact throwing ability. Ventura himself was apparently misinformed or mistaken about the relative severity of this kind of injury and the prognosis, and that is somewhat surprising. Maybe others in the organization shared Ventura's belief that this particular injury was minor in comparison to other shoulder injuries and Ventura's false expectation that Danks would be ready for opening day. The gist of one of the articles I cited is that this kind of injury and surgical procedure for pitchers is somewhat rare. There aren't enough cases to be able to determine the effectiveness of the surgery or a full recovery from it with any degree of certainty. If Danks is not throwing at a progressively higher velocity over several starts, there may be no point in running him out for rehab starts in the minors. Perhaps the best course would be to shut him down for a few months and begin in some strengthening program for his shoulder before allowing him to throw from the mound.

Keppinger crushes one!

I have ATT Uverse and have not had any lag in the broadcast at all.

I was surprised to read about the injury to Danks and the prognosis. Danks torn shoulder capsule diagnosis . "When he finally did go under the knife, we found out that Danks' subscapularis injury had healed, but that the underlying problem turned out to be a torn shoulder capsule. The shoulder capsule problem is a relatively rare diagnosis and gathering details on those who've had the same issue has also been problematic. But the preliminary research is not promising given the names on the list: Johan Santana, Chris Young, Dallas Braden, Chien-Ming Wang, Pedro Feliciano, Tim Byrdak Mark Prior, Robb Nen, John Maine, Tomo Ohka and Rich Harden....and none of those guys have come back to be the pitchers they were." That information is contrary to what Ventura stated: "This is a part of the shoulder that they're not as worried about," White Sox manager Robin Ventura said. "If it was the labrum or something like that, it would be worse. It's good news. He'll be ready to go. I know he's pretty relieved as far as there was something there, they fixed it," Ventura said. Ventura downplays Dank's injury and claims he will be ready to go

I agree with you and with Ventura that Axe is likely to be the 5th starter for a while. He always seems to be around the strike zone and seldom makes mistakes right over the plate. He has some movement on his fastball, a nice slider and a change-up that is his swing and miss K pitch. Let's all be honest about Danks. None of us know when he will return to his prior form, and I hate to say this, but there is no guarantee from his surgeon that Danks will throw 90+ mph with control over his pitches as a starting pitcher ever again. It is brutal to think about that but that worse case scenario is in the back of our minds. Given that, I do not think the Sox are or should be planning on Danks returning to the 25 man roster or to the rotation any time soon.

Whose "we"? never mind....

It is easy to say that any major league hitter would crush a high change-up or curve after someone else actually does it. Just for the record, that was a majestic home run that was hit high into the night. What a dramatic moment for their fans. I saw a couple of them fans with White Sox jackets on so that can't hurt our club. Rios seems like a pretty nice guy who always conducts himself with class so I am proud that Rios is on our club.

' Hopefully Flowers will prove to be durable over the course of the season. "White Sox catcher Tyler Flowers is out of the lineup for a second consecutive day because of lower back stiffness. Flowers said his back tightened up on him Friday morning. While Flowers' tone was optimistic, there is always cause for concern with back issues, especially for a catcher. The Sox open the season in 16 days. Flowers was maintaining a sense of humor when asked how it affected his range of motion. "I've never had much," the 6-4, 245-pounder said. Flowers out again with stiff lower back Flowers reminds me of Toby Hall, a very nice fellow that would always oblige with autographs, could occasionally hit for power when he connected. but would never be mistaken for Fisk or AJ.

The rankings are just opinions based on statistics and projections based on prior years and various subjective factors. I don't get how pass balls are added to wild pitches when evaluating a catcher. One is an error on the pitcher and the other on the catcher. Is this some sort of attempt to diminish AJ's defense? That would be ironic because there will be plenty of pitches thrown outside of Flowers reach that he will not get to because of his size and lack of mobility -- pitches that another catcher, even AJ at his advanced age, would block or catch. So White Sox do not have many position players that are in the top ten, but certainly Alexei Ramirez and Konerko are arguably in the mix, depending on who is do the rating or what source one chooses to cite. That is why Detroit will walk away with the Division according to most baseball prognosticators and Cub fans. As far as Flowers, he does not even have a full season as starting catcher to gauge his performance or his durability. He has been and is a borderline starting catcher/back-up catcher, at least until he proves he can handle the job for a full season. He11, he can't even stay in there this Spring without a sore back cropping up in that brutally cold Arizona weather.

The thing is, market share is key for the White Sox. Media attention and fan enthusiasm are key to attendance numbers. Again, we need good attendance (over 2 Million/yr.) to get more revenue and be able to compete. Unfortunately we have to be concerned with the Cubs when we are in the same City with the same media and a large but finite local fan base. A few of us have suggested improvement that the Sox can make to the stadium and surrounding area to increase fan interest in attending games. I like the RF upper tank idea, opening up an opposite view of the loop on the 3rd base line, and making improvements outside the park that play up on tail-gating and meandering on foot to a safe neighborhood bar (not the Bacardi in the park thing). As far as the direction of the team itself, I do not profess to know what to do at this point but "at the same time" (as Ventura says) I would like to see a commitment to become more competitive now or in the alternative, that that we resign ourselves to what is a likely going to be a mid-or lower Division finish and place more emphasis on rebuilding. So here is an idea that might be heresy for some of you. We now hear that the Yankees may find out that Mark Texiera may need surgery and could be out longer than anticipated. Would offering Dunn to them (not sure for what) be something you would consider if you were Sox GM? And how would losing Dunn impact your current 2013 win-loss prediction? There are a few others that I would prioritize in trading and Jake Peavy would lead that list because of what we might get in return.

Granted it is not all to Epstein's credit but my point about market share in Chicago and the Cubs was broader. It was based on the fact that: a.) the Cubs are going to be very good and probably that will be sooner than later, perhaps this season. b.) tanking the team helped them get Almora, Baez and possible Mark Appel or another great pitcher. c.) OK, Epstein had Castro, obtained Soler and fell into the Rizzo deal with help from Hoyer, but they have them d.) Ricketts is going to invest about a half a Billion in Wrigley not counting possible private development dollars in surrounding buildings and infrastructure. All of the above will make the Cubs into an even more attractive draw regardless if they actually win a WS. And theynwill have an exciting and winning team. Let's not go down the list of their young players like Soler, Almora, Rizzo, Castro, etc. but have you read about or seen this Baez kid hit yet? That kid is going to be special if not sensational. So here we sit with the Cell and all it's flaws and a team that cannot compete with Detroit. Add to that the fact that we will face improved teams in Kansas City and Cleveland. As KW has said on numerous occasion, the Sox depend on attendance to get money to purchase free agents that improve our club. How is that going to work out moving forward if we are a 2d, 3rd or 4th place team that is getting older? And, I know. who cares if the Cubs get better, win a WS or 2, but realistically, when the Cubs get better or win a championship the attention of the media and the fans will shift away from our Sox, maybe for a long time or until we win again. That is why Reinsdorf should start thinking about doing something to both improve the team in the near future with young players, make improvements to the stadium and the surrounding area, and perhaps make a few player acquisitions over time that will resonate with fans, just like JR and EE years ago after they purchased the Sox. They should have outbid the Cubs for Soler for starters. One more thing in case the AJ thing comes up again. I do not think the Sox would have been competitive this year with AJ. My problem with not signing him for one year is not only will we be worse but that AJ should have been signed and made a permanent part of the franchise for other reasons. That is what a lot of Sox fans wanted and that would have benefited the franchise beyond his performance on the field. Meanwhile let's get realistic, Flowers is going nowhere and he is never going to be a draw for fans. Flowers jerseys anyone? Please, there is no upside with him. He is what he is - a .225 hitter with 20 home runs, 175 K's and an over-hyped defensive ability, when he is healthy enough to play. Is he out again today with the back? And I love Keppinger and Gillaspie but they are utility infielders, mere patches in a tire that is slowly going flat. I am calling on the the Sox to have a sense of urgency and to stop this spin about if a,b,c,d,e,and f work out and Detroit chokes, hey we could win the Division. We know that's Bulsh1t.

74-88. Things could turn ugly right off the bat in April. 3 games against KC who we always have difficulty beating. After a brief homestand 3 against Washington and 4 against Toronto. If Detroit puts on an early winning streak, we could be 5-6 games out by May 1 and never make up that ground. The way the schedule has our games against Detroit backloaded in the second half is interesting. If we are 10 games out by the All-Star break it might be time to start unloading a few players. At some point the Theo Epstein strategy might be the best course to take - bring up minor league players, tank the season and get some high Draft picks. I hate to see that happen but I reluctantly admit that it has worked for the Cubs in amassing a pool of talented young players, some of whom have star potential. At some point it may be time to throw in the towel for 2013 and 2014 in order to become competitive in the future. The Sox have to find a way to get better against Division foes like Detroit and also to compete in this town for market share against the Cubs organization who is focused on the future like a laser.

Or that Morel is going to be the back-up infielder and he can't play SS very well.