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Posts posted by lostfan

  1. QUOTE(DrunkBomber @ Mar 19, 2008 -> 07:51 PM)
    What in your opinion is valuable to the conversation? When ever this issue is discussed it always goes the same route, public schools, poverty etc. Obama did do one thing which was acknowledge we are at a stalemate about this topic and there are underlying issues that are too taboo to discuss so people are scared to. Im not trying to come off as racist or offend anyone myself. Im trying to clear the air. The things Ive talked about are things that have always bothered me and I think if nobody ever discusses the issues they will never be resolved. I dont know where youre coming from and you dont know where Im coming from and I think once people learn to understand others that are different from them is the first step in accomplishing this goal. Im sure there are lots of things that people of every race or religion dont understand or like about other races or religions but if everyone is too scared to ask or talk about it the barrier will always be there.


    We can all sit here and discuss lack of funding for public schools and whatever else but even though I disagree with what Obama said, I do agree with the idea of trying to end the racial tension that has always existed that people are scared to confront because they dont want to be labeled a racist or bigot.

    It's not that I think you're a racist or anything dumb like that, it's that it really bothers me when people talk in really general terms or go off and railroad the discussion into a strawman argument, I'll be reading their reply to something I said and it's almost as if I've said something completely different and doesn't match anything I've said in the threads. That's the direction I saw it heading and whenever I see something like that happen on a MB I will say something to the effect of "I'm not doing that, it's a waste of time" etc. Specifically in this case I was under the impression that you thought I was blaming slavery for problems today (I'm not and I thought I was being pretty specific) and that you started hinting at the fact that I support Jackson, Sharpton, et al even though I said the distinct opposite in the thread (I think you probably weren't but that's really what it looked like). When that happens, when what I'm saying doesn't resonate and I get the impression the person isn't listening - disagreeing with me is fine - I feel like I'm wasting keystrokes.


    I'm really not trying to be an a-hole so if that's how I'm coming across I'm sorry. Where I agree with you, and everyone else, is that we need to air things out. But if we're going to do that we need to be open-minded and accept that we're going to hear things we don't want to hear.

  2. QUOTE(Whitewashed in '05 @ Mar 18, 2008 -> 11:04 AM)
    Johan played infield in Venezuela. He tried to imitate his father who was right handed and later found out he was left handed.



    That's pretty funny, it's gotta be like "ohhhh well damn no wonder I suck, geez"

  3. QUOTE(wilmot825 @ Mar 19, 2008 -> 02:01 PM)
    The reason I said cocky was the fact I met him the night before Soxfest began. I was inside the private party at ESPN Zone, and met all the players and coaches. Jerry Owens refused to sign autographs until he finished eating, but all the other players signed and took pictures while they ate. Then afterwards I asked for his autograph and photo and he was like "yah but lets hurry it up," then before I could get a picture he sidetracked to talk to Greg Walker. Maybe I just had a bad experience with him, but he comes off as cocky and a jerk...to me atleast.

    lol, dude, I was expecting a bombshell or something that I didn't know about. This has no bearing whatsoever on whether he should be an everyday player on the Sox or his attitude towards the team, come on now.


    By the way, as far as something tangible, he's been working hard this past offseason to get better, he knows the areas he needed to improve to be able to make an impact as a MLB player. And he's batting .440 this spring. I would've liked to see him have more than 1 walk... but damn I mean expecting him to have a .530 average instead of a .440 average is kind of expecting a bit much. Bottom line, his attitude is the last of things I'm worried about with Jerry Owens.

  4. QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Mar 19, 2008 -> 09:25 AM)
    If there was one thing I learned from my run for school board it is that race, sex, religion, and any other ism you can throw out there pale in comparision to being poor as an indicator of where someone will go in life. Kids from bad areas preform badly, regardless of race, more often than any other difference you can draw between students. The property tax system to fund schools is a HUGE failure.

    Agree 100%. If you're black and grow up in a well-off family in a predominantly upper-middle class to rich white neigborhood you're much more likely to "make it" than you would be if you're white from a poor family in a predominantly poor black neighborhood.


    Now, the problem is, what race(s) do most poor people come from? And many people don't see very far past that.

  5. You touched on something I mentioned in the edit to my post, the disparity in public school funding. I think you're absolutely right, there is NO REASON WHATSOEVER for schools in higher property tax areas to be better funded than poor areas. Kids are kids, they all deserve an equal shot no matter where they come from. In Maryland it's a really big problem. Schools in Baltimore suck while rich kids in the outlying counties get damn near private-school quality education. What's that about?


    I like the intention behind affirmative action but I'm against the way it works out, I think some kind of class-based system could be worked out as long as the most qualified people are given the fairest shot in the end. But I still think ethical practices in the workplace, school etc. should be strictly enforced (anti-discrimination rules, etc., most places I've been do this).

  6. QUOTE(kapkomet @ Mar 19, 2008 -> 08:07 AM)
    And your point of view is shared with most "minorities"... thank goodness. It's the vocal "minority" (pardon the pun) that causes trouble.

    And I'm a Southsider to the bone, a product of Chicago Public Schools. Although I don't live in Chicago anymore. So it may have been more difficult for me, but it certainly wasn't impossible. And it's not directly anyone's "fault", either.


    I see things as class-based rather than race-based, poor people are at a natural disadvantage. If a white kid grows up in Englewood he is going to have the same rough path a black kid has. But it just so happens that blacks and Mexicans have been put into that situation in disproportionately large numbers, the reasons for that come from a long time ago and that's where a lot of animosity comes from. Now the problem is, how do we undo it? It's complex.

  7. It's not a matter of enacting more policies IMO, we already have plenty of laws. It's a matter of acknowledging the past, understanding it, and airing it out instead of avoiding it. Leadership that we haven't seen since MLK died (Jackson, Farrakhan, and Sharpton couldn't cut it).

  8. QUOTE(DrunkBomber @ Mar 18, 2008 -> 11:47 PM)
    Whats the relevance of it? We had nothing to do with slavery so why can it be used as an excuse when dealing with people now. How is the country supposed to move forward when theyre always looking back at a dark part of our past?

    I've explained this at great length already and the context of what Obama was talking about when he mentioned it in the speech. Don't be holding your breath waiting for me to do it again.

  9. QUOTE(DrunkBomber @ Mar 18, 2008 -> 11:20 PM)
    Slavery has nothing to do with anyone alive and and is used as a cop out.

    In many cases, yes it is. But that doesn't mean it's always irrelevant. It had more to do with Jim Crow laws than slavery, and that's put a vicious cycle into motion that's hard to stop. Easier than it was 20 years ago but still hard.

  10. QUOTE(kapkomet @ Mar 18, 2008 -> 11:27 PM)
    Right. I agree with that. But I think it's used by quite a few African-Americans as a crutch to inflict racial divides (on that side), which is where we get back into Wright and his speeches about "rich white folks". It's nice to blame "White America" but in reality, everyone has a chance if they want it. It's all on whether you want to be a victim.

    I'm mixed (you guys all probably figured I was black so I never bothered to mention it, I figured my own race was irrelevant though) and to get where I'm at, quite honestly, no white person has ever "held me back." And to be honest I've never had an N-bomb dropped to my face... anonymous morons on the Internet notwithstanding. The number of white racists I've met is actually pretty small, and I've even lived in the South. But at the same time I haven't gotten a thing because of affirmative action, everything I've gotten is on my own.


    I say all this to say I try to go out of my way not to paint with that "white people" brush because all it does is divide and turn people off, and shut ears. I only speak about race in a historical context and if I talk about today it's on a "macro" type level. So, as far as what you're saying here, I agree with you.

  11. QUOTE(Alpha Dog @ Mar 18, 2008 -> 11:24 PM)
    You were not. But maybe you meant to, and that's ok. Actions and deeds are not important, it is what you intended that is important, and that you feel good about yourself.

    In the bolded part, I was trying to get away from "I'm not racist, my family never owned slaves, and it ended in 1863" which I guess I should've clarified.

  12. QUOTE(kapkomet @ Mar 18, 2008 -> 11:19 PM)
    Read my response to what you highlighted, not what race Obama is. You said "the root of our social problems come from slavery"... that's not true, in my opinion. Now what you're trying to turn this into is [racism is] "the root of our social problems" and that's not true either.


    And "white people" started racism? That's ... um... a little conceited, to put it gently.

    Slavery turned to Jim Crow laws which led to 100 years of direct oppression which did not formally end until it was forced to the Civil Rights era which was the beginning of the end of it all, but certainly not the end... all of which has set back the black race as a whole back decades and decades from where it could've or should've progressed to. And yeah, the people that did this were white, and they lived in America.


    Maybe I should clarify... the root of the divide between white and black in this country comes from slavery.

  13. QUOTE(Alpha Dog @ Mar 18, 2008 -> 11:17 PM)
    Do you know any history? Slavery existed long before there ever was a 'White America'. It existed in Africa (NOT white), by Africans (also NOT white) and still exists in Africa (because of NON whites).

    Are we not talking about America?

  14. QUOTE(CrimsonWeltall @ Mar 18, 2008 -> 11:15 PM)
    Main Entry: original

    Part of Speech: adjective

    Definition: earliest


    Only someone looking to be insulted would make "nation's original sin" stretch to "all white Americans are born guilty for slavery and must request forgiveness through black preachers".

    Thank you.

  15. QUOTE(Alpha Dog @ Mar 18, 2008 -> 11:04 PM)
    You know, in politics, specific words mean specific things. And I am sure that with this speech, every word and phrase was gone over many times and picked very carefully. He damned white America from the beginning, religious meaning or not. I resent that.

    You know what... comments like this are exactly why he didn't want to bring up race until his hand was forced. You just can't win. Somebody is going to find something wrong no matter what you say. So it's just treated as the elephant in the room.


    However, if you really want to be argumentative and prove a point you can try explaining to me, without cherry-picking, how white America (as a sole entity, throughout history) is somehow not the original source of racism. And by extension, how highlighting a fact like that is damning. That is kind of the whole point and if you're going to talk about race, it's unavoidable. You personally not being racist or bristling at the thought of being called a racist does not change this.

  16. QUOTE(kapkomet @ Mar 18, 2008 -> 10:58 PM)
    Um... no. What does that have to do with, say, immigration? We aren't "enslaving" Mexicans, are we?

    Obama's not Mexican, and didn't have a Mexican pastor saying inflammatory things. And furthermore, slavery was around for centuries before illegal immigration was a problem. Hence "original." The effects still linger to this day, for a lot of different reasons.

  17. Dude, seriously you are REALLY making something out of nothing with the "original sin" comment. Focus less on the specific words used in an almost 40-minute speech and focus more on what he was actually saying - the root of all of our social problems today come from slavery. This should pretty much be common knowledge.


    BTW invading Iraq had nothing to do with stemming the tide of radical Islam ala Afghanistan but that is a whole other argument.