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Posts posted by lostfan

  1. QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Mar 18, 2008 -> 06:20 PM)
    Its not a big deal, except that some people want to make it one. These are the people who have no interest in what Obama was trying to get across - they are more interested in dissecting the individual words to death, trying to find something to criticize.


    And if I recall, actually, he said in the speech he HAD been there when he'd said some incindiary things. He admitted it.

    None of it in and of itself is a big deal, it's just people are going to great lengths to try and call Obama a liar over something he's really not lying about. Maybe he tried to dance around it a little at first as politicians tend to do, but in the end it's still a bunch of trivial details.

  2. QUOTE(Alpha Dog @ Mar 18, 2008 -> 06:16 PM)
    And that answer in itself isn't 'spin'?

    No, not really... trying to take one specific incident and lump it in together with something from over a period of time that would almost seem to conflict but really doesn't, and be deliberately vague about it?

  3. QUOTE(mr_genius @ Mar 18, 2008 -> 05:55 PM)
    If you look at my post again, there is a section at the top with a quote. It looks like this:

    That is what I was responding too. Now which part of my post goes against that? He said the guy was just like a black white supremacist shown in a sketch. He also used a racial slur, oreo, when referring to the CNN guest.

    The last part of your post just seemed unnecessary and out of place.

  4. QUOTE(Alpha Dog @ Mar 18, 2008 -> 06:03 PM)
    If he said he never heard it, and then said it did, how is reporting that 'spin'?

    He was asked specifically about the 9-11 comments several times and he said he wasn't there, in his speech he said he's heard Wright make comments he didn't agree with, or be a sharp critic of U.S. policy since he's been attending the church, or words to that effect. Trying to find a lie in there is in fact spin.

  5. QUOTE(mr_genius @ Mar 18, 2008 -> 05:42 PM)
    Why isn't he entitled to his opinion ?


    Why are you lowering yourself to calling someone a race trader?


    Are you white? If so, you might want to watch your words as, because as a white person you have no right to criticize a black man. Thats the theory behind why white people can't criticize Wright, correct?


  6. QUOTE(Athomeboy_2000 @ Mar 18, 2008 -> 05:28 PM)
    This is a speech that needs to be run in its entirety on every news show this evening. It is THAT important.

    Agreed. It's something everyone needs to hear whether they like Obama or not.

  7. QUOTE(Athomeboy_2000 @ Mar 18, 2008 -> 05:12 PM)
    If she were to try and make a speech on race, she'll get destroyed by the medai. She has NO street cred on race. She is a privileged white woman.

    I saw a comment on CNN where somebody said since Obama grew up mostly overseas and was raised by a white mother that he has no connections to American slavery and isn't qualified to talk about racial issues... lol, people are so damn stupid and I guess they can make themselves believe anything.


    In the same comment thread I saw someone say "where is this white mother Obama keeps talking about and why haven't we seen her? Obama is just another liar!" The thread closed before I could tell her Obama's mother has been dead for a long time.

  8. QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Mar 18, 2008 -> 04:58 PM)
    He has been. I've been saying for a while, relative to the other candidates in either party, I think Obama is by far the most forthright. This is no different.

    McCain really isn't so bad either IMO, but compared to... say... Hillary? Oh god yes.


    He only hasn't been frank if that's what you're trying to make yourself believe. You have to cherry-pick to support that.

  9. QUOTE(kapkomet @ Mar 18, 2008 -> 02:43 PM)
    Noooo... I just typo'd it. We're NOT racist was the point. Ooops. :D For once, I was being nice. I wasn't meaning to sound like Obama, but apparently I do. I just can't work a room like he can. :lol:

    I think that comment exposed you as a closet racist. You've just been outed. No sense hiding it now.


    btw, open-ended question: which one is the correct shade of green?

  10. Judging by the comments I see people making on places like CNN, most of the people talking haven't even bothered to watch or read the speech yet. Which is pretty disappointing and ironic. Ironic that people will say something like "it's just another speech" or "I don't care what he says, blah blah blah" when everything he needed to address hit the nail on the head... but they still want to buy into the headlines and soundbites, and take them at face value.

  11. QUOTE(kapkomet @ Mar 18, 2008 -> 09:53 AM)
    I know better then that. But, the fact is, the undertones are there always. It's his style and his belief that african americans are being held down by "rich white folks". Does he say it every week? Probably not. Does he believe it? Absolutely. Does Obama? Probably, but of course he can't come right out and say that. Duh.

    Yeah, so? You know something, that might not be completely true but it's based in truth, at least historically, and that's the way many blacks feel. People don't really like to bring it up in mixed company, and I know that white people don't want to hear it because they don't want people to say they're racist when they feel they're not, they think it's unfair which is understandable. But pretending that this country hasn't had devastating racial problems that linger to this day (albeit to a significantly lesser degree, after much progress), or hiding your head in the sand and condemning people who bring up reality is pretty ignorant if you ask me. And as I read comments across the Internet, that's exactly what's happening.

  12. QUOTE(StrangeSox @ Mar 18, 2008 -> 08:53 AM)
    I would really like to know how often sermons like that were given. Are the handful of clips out there the only times in 20 years? Was it a weekly or monthly thing?

    No way of knowing honestly, but from watching news networks you'd think it was the foundation of everything Wright preached for his entire career.


    I will say this though, when pastors of black churches start talking about race relations, it does get pretty fiery. Usually not the point of outright racism, but still toeing the line of political correctness (at least what you'd be used to seeing on TV)

  13. QUOTE(kapkomet @ Mar 18, 2008 -> 08:04 AM)
    Do you hang around people like this for (again) 20 years if you don't believe anything they say?

    Frankly, yes. And what of it? I have friends that do drugs, does it mean I sanction the use of drugs? Cmon now. Some of my friends and/or family are just plain morons. Does that affect who I am? No it doesn't. Not at all. Not in the slightest. I could care less what someone thinks about my friends, if they want to judge me based off the people I know and not what I believe... especially when what they know me to believe directly conflicts with what my friends believe, but you give more weight to the latter... then that's not someone I want to know. Then again, I'm not a politician trying to pander to fickle, narrow-minded masses either...


    This entire response is based off the fallacious premise that Jeremiah Wright ONLY preaches what you saw in those videos btw. Anything more than that is deliberately polarzing the issue and trying to turn it black and white when it really isn't (pun not intended).


    What I'm saying here is... if someone already doesn't like Obama and this is just fuel to their fire that's one thing but if this is a revelation, or an epiphany that causes somebody to do a complete 180 on Obama that's kind of pathetic IMO. Is it a strike against Obama? Probably. Does it carry as much weight as everybody is saying it is, enough to completely override anything Obama has ever said or done? No.

  14. You know, all you guys who all of a sudden are insinuating that Obama is some kind of closet racist where he has been going to this church for the past 20 years to be indoctrinated with hatred and contempt for white people and America based off a handful of video clips, I kind of feel sorry for how easily you're manipulated by the media. I just don't see how you could just jump to such wild and ridiculous conclusions and pretend like that's all there is to know, and nothing else.

  15. QUOTE(WilliamTell @ Mar 12, 2008 -> 09:51 PM)
    Anyways one question I wonder, maybe some of you history buffs and answer this but right after the Civil War ended, and into the 20th Century, the South were primarily Democrat and African-Americans were primarily Republican, at least in Iowa. Now it's the complete reversal. Anyone have a reason for that?

    Well, that is kind of complicated to explain but I'll try and summarize it, please forgive me if I miss a couple of details though. The Republicans were basically all of the abolitionists and pro-war politicians and the southern white Democrats were the pro-slavery/pro-seccession people and the ones that passed all the Jim Crow laws to deliberately disenfranchise black voters during the Reconstruction because they were a new and powerful voting bloc that would threaten their status quo. Around this whole time (probably Kansas-Nebraska act but I forget) the Democratic party split, and all of the pro-war Democrats left the party for the Republicans. So in a nutshell the Democratic party is basically responsible for f***ing blacks and setting them back 100 years and they enabled white supremacist groups to come about because they ran out the federal troops the gov't needed to support the rights of blacks. But...


    ...as I'm sure you know, this started to end around the civil rights era in the '60s when Democratic leaders like Truman and Kennedy started supporting civil rights which obviously upset the racists (yeah, not a better word that is less inflammatory since it's true) in the South and left them to temporarily split from the party, and at the same time drawing blacks into it. So Richard Nixon saw this happening and used it to his advantage, he appealed to the white conservatives (and, um, racists) in the South and they started voting Republican, and eventually got settled back into their old ways without having to worry about their party supporting civil rights. And it worked pretty damn effectively, so ever since then, the South has usually been red made up of entirely red states.


    Oh and to address the thread's general topic, it is still racially polarized as far as that goes, it might not be completely obvious like it was several decades ago but it's still a reality. Pretending like it's not is kind of silly, and how many racists are in the North is basically irrelevant.

  16. QUOTE(Mplssoxfan @ Mar 13, 2008 -> 03:28 PM)
    I think that we, as a nation, have made great strides in curbing racism. I also feel that there is much work left to be done.

    Is this country collectively less racist than it was 20 years ago? Yes.

  17. QUOTE(Alpha Dog @ Mar 14, 2008 -> 09:56 PM)
    You can't cherry-pick on the racism defense. Don Imus has received widespread condemnation for very occasional statements that showed racial insensitivity. Trent Lott was condemned for one statement praising Strom Thurmond's 1948 presidential campaign. So if 10% of what he says is bad, it is bad.

    mmkay but you know what, these are not things Obama said, at any point, ever... it's guilt by association.


    Furthermore Wright grew up during the Civil Rights era and so on while Obama was raised by a single white mother overseas.


    I kind of get tired of explaining the black perspective and why some of them speak with so much anger and distrust as if they're just supposed to "get over" the past and the subsequent situation the race is in today. It's like talking to a wall most of the time, especially on the internet, so I don't even attempt to do it anymore. (This should not be read as lostfan's endorsement of anything Wright said in these clips btw)