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Everything posted by ChiSox59

  1. ChiSox59

    White Sox Listening on Sale

    QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 25, 2016 -> 02:44 PM) But also, WTF. Your life is fascinating. No s***, please do share.
  2. ChiSox59

    Not Giving up Yet but ....

    QUOTE (VAfan @ Jul 25, 2016 -> 11:13 AM) I think the Sox don't have any good choices. But I've come to the view at the moment that their most likely path is to try again to patch holes in the offseason and go for it again in 2017. Chris Sale and Quintana will always be tradeable, so there is no rush to unload them, and their value won't be lower next season. The only guys you could unload for some value before their run is up is Frazier and Lawrie and Melky. All are signed through next year. What would they net? Would it be enough to go for the tear down now, as opposed to next year, if the Sox fail again? I think any tear down is looking at another 3+ years to anything competitive, under best case scenarios. At that point, Rodon is nearing the end of his first contract, Anderson is starting arbitration, Eaton will be over 30. In short, there will be no one left from this current team that will be a bargain player the way that Sale, Quintana and Eaton are now. And waiting another year to start the rebuild will give you another year of development of whatever we have in the minors. And since all those guys are years off, that's a plus, not a minus. If we had several guys on the cusp, a tear down now might yield a more rapid return to relevance. I don't see that. So, the Sox should play out the year. Unload any guys with 1-year contracts who won't be back for whatever you can get. But keep all the pitchers and the 2-year guys, make what moves you can in the offseason, and try again. As part of going for it in 2017, however, the Sox have to try it with a different manager. Ventura has had 2 years of tweaked teams to show something, and he's failed. Not sure a new manager will make the difference, but it has to be tried. Going into next year, the Sox could be stronger. SP - Sale and Q will still anchor. Shields can be a solid #3. Rodon needs to be a lot better. Gonzalez might be kept as one of the options for the 5th slot. This would be better than they started 2016. BP - lots of guys injured at the moment. Return to health should improve this unit. Plus Fullmer and Burdi might strengthen it. Fullmer might also be considered as a 5th starter option. Lineup keepers. Anderson, Eaton, Melky, Frazier, Lawrie, Abreu. Not great, but potentially servicable. Key here is Abreu. He has to turn it around or the Sox aren't going to have a decent offense. Lineup turnover. CF, DH, C. Those are the 3 biggest holes. They need to be filled with quality, not afterthoughts. Guys who are BETTER than the 6 keepers. To conclude: when you are 3 good players and a new manager from having a contending team, it's not time to throw in the towel and start over. Better to go for it. If you miss, it won't have really cost you anything. Nice post. I agree with a lot of it. The Sox are in a lot of ways, stuck. I don't think Sale and Quintana's trade value drops at all from this summer to next. The core of the Sox offense and pitching is still intact in 2017. If there is ever a year to tear down, it'd be next year if things fail again. As you said, you could trade Melky, Frazier and Lawrie now, but are you going to get much that improves the Sox future? Nothing too exciting, would be my guess. You can trade them next July if you suck again. I do think it may be in the Sox best interest to just hold tight and do what they've been doing the past few years. Is it a broken record? Ya, totally - but again, they're probably not going to get any more value out of Sale and/or Q now than they are next July, so why not try one more time before the core gets broken down after 2017? Sign Carlos Gomez to man center next year - maybe you can get him on an incentive laden one year deal and hope he goes bonkers. Go sign Jason Castro to a 1 year deal to get another bat from the left side, and hope that Collins will be ready in 2018. Resign a Morneau or something inexpensive to DH most of the time (Steve Pearce, Napoli, Alvarex, Beltra, Joyce, Smith, Morrisson, Moss, Lind, Teixera - there are options). Nothing there will be overly expensive and won't have future commitments. After 2017, the Sox will have very little on the books. If they suck again next year, that would be the more logical time to firesale everything and start over. With the core they have now, there is a still a chance to compete next year if you don't go out and trade your two aces. All that said - I get it if the Sox decide to move on. They've tried this same strategy for years, to no avail. I get it. It just seems to me the timing works much better next year, and its not like Sox best trade assets are devaluing over that time (barring injuries, of course).
  3. ChiSox59

    David Robertson is a fantastic closer

    QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Jul 25, 2016 -> 02:28 PM) Sox would do well to get a B- position player prospect back. May as well keep him if thats all you get. That does virtually nothing for the Sox.
  4. ChiSox59

    Crosstown Cup Game Thread, Game 1

    QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Jul 25, 2016 -> 02:13 PM) They really should move Turner into long relief for this series and give the start to Ranaudo. He definitely deserves a shot over Turner with the way he's pitched this year. This.
  5. ChiSox59

    Dodgers kicking Tires on Q

    QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Jul 25, 2016 -> 01:04 PM) Am I missing something with the Dodgers system? Let's remove Seager, Pederson, and Urias because I don't believe they will be involved in any deals. That leaves...De Leon, Holmes, Belinger, Verugo, Barnes, Toles, and a bunch of 17 and 18 year olds. Nice prospects, but no headliner there for me. And even if 1 of those 3 were involved it would almost 100% be Pederson....and ehh, not sure he's the prize he once was. Joc, De Leon, Bellinger, Verdugo, and Barnes for Q or Sale? Definitely wouldn't be my favorite package. Agreed. I need Urias, De Leon, Barnes and 2 others are included in any package Sale or Q package. I just don't think the Dodgers have the bullets without Urias.
  6. ChiSox59

    Chris Sale scratched from start

    QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Jul 25, 2016 -> 12:04 PM) I just can't condone what Sale did here. I can understand his frustration about not winning and thinking that the team is more interested in marketing. But to shred all of the jerseys and throw a temper tantrum just makes him look like a fool. The Sox did the right thing by suspending him, but I'm not sure it'll do any good. If anything, he might even be saltier about the whole thing. Before all of this, I was barely willing to accept the idea of trading him for a huge haul. Now, I'm more willing, but I'd still want to see a huge haul. My concern is that if he isn't traded (now or in the off season), will relations between him and the Sox ever heal? My guess is Chris realizes what a dumb thing it was to do and regrets it. Despite the narrative that some are trying to spin, Chris does not hate the White Sox or playing for this organization. He may not agree with everything (what employee does?), but he had a momentraily lapse of judgement and I am sure he is embarrassed as all hell. All will be fine.
  7. ChiSox59

    White Sox Listening on Sale

    QUOTE (hi8is @ Jul 25, 2016 -> 12:06 PM) Horrible horrible read worth it for the laugh: http://nypost.com/2016/07/25/could-yankees...s-sale-pursuit/ Sale to the Yankees, with them taking Robertson in order to give up less prospects. Yea... Sure. Moron. Nice try, Joel. Comical.
  8. ChiSox59

    Dodgers kicking Tires on Q

    QUOTE (Sox Fan In Husker Land @ Jul 25, 2016 -> 11:52 AM) Q is an elite pitcher. The only thing he doesn't have is W's next to his name. Hell, Sunday he went 6 2/3 0 runs 1 BB 3 H and he got an ND. If that doesn't sum up his career as a Sox pitcher, I don't know what does. Since his 1st full season as a starter his #s are elite among pitchers. 2013 - 3.5 fWAR 30th overall (15th in AL) 2014 - 5.1 fWAR 10th overall (8th in AL) 2015 - 4.8 fWAR 14th overall (6th in AL) 2016 - 3.2 fWAR 9th overall (on pace for 5.1 fWAR), (3rd in AL) Look at his trajectory among AL pitchers 15th, 8th, 6th, 3rd. He's 27, easy delivery, no signs of arm issues, and locked up cheap as hell for the next 4 years. MLB pitching leaders in fWAR from 2013 - today: Kershaw 28.9 fWAR. 4 years 141 left million contract. 28 years old. Scherzer 20.7 fWAR. 5 years 170 million left on contract. 32 years old. Price 19.8 fWAR 6 years 187 million left on contract. 30, will be 31 in August. Kluber 19.4 fWAR 5 years 59.1 million (could increase to 70.9) left on contract. 30 years old. Sale 19.1 fWAR 3 years 38 million left on contract. 27 years old. Quintana 16.5 fWAR 4 years 37.85 million left on contract. 27 years old. Both Sale and Q should bring back a huge bounty if one is traded. If there are no MLB proven young players thrown into the trade I do not see how they can take anything less than 3 top 50 prospects, and 2 more top 100 prospects for one of Sale or Q. This is a good post.
  9. ChiSox59

    White Sox Listening on Sale

    QUOTE (Buehrlesque @ Jul 25, 2016 -> 11:37 AM) If the Sox could pull this off, wow. It's my absolute No. 1 dream scenario. I need Kopech in that deal as well.
  10. ChiSox59

    White Sox Listening on Sale

    QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jul 25, 2016 -> 11:24 AM) They'll get Quintana and Robertson in a deal. Do they need Frazier as well? I can't remember how 3B is for them? Blockbuster involving Q, DRob, Frazier for Moncada+ Moncada ++++++++
  11. ChiSox59

    Dodgers kicking Tires on Q

    QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 25, 2016 -> 06:56 AM) Anyone hear the Heyman interview on Mulley & Hanley this morning? My Cubs buddy claims he said that Quintana gets you half of what Sale does. Can anyone verify that? If true, then definitely deal Sale and hold onto Q. I didn't hear it, but these dudes only know so much. Heyman is one of the better ones, but take it with a grain of salt. Q should get close to what Sale can bring back.
  12. ChiSox59

    White Sox Listening on Sale

    QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 25, 2016 -> 10:53 AM) We saw Beane do it with Lester-Cespedes. Sometimes desperate times call for desperate measures. We can give them...J.B. Shuck. Then they won't be getting Chris Sale.
  13. ChiSox59


    QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Jul 24, 2016 -> 05:24 PM) Nice...maybe they can finish the year over .500...maybe. Mark Go away
  14. ChiSox59

    Red Sox Reportedly Interested in Robertson

    QUOTE (Baron @ Jul 24, 2016 -> 09:11 PM) Red Sox on various other forums think he'll be a salary dump only lol Sox aren't moving Robertson if they don't get real prospect value in return. They aren't going to trade him w Q or anyone else if it lowers their value (it won't). Outside of a few outings tanks year, Robertson has been great.
  15. ChiSox59

    Specific Trade Ideas

    QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jul 24, 2016 -> 03:08 PM) Quintana and Robertson to Boston for Benintendi, Devers, Swihart, and Kopech is fair for both teams with BoSox paying DRob. Not enough IMO.
  16. ChiSox59


    Consider the source, boys. Dudes got an agenda.
  17. ChiSox59

    Chris Sale scratched from start

    QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 23, 2016 -> 06:03 PM) Um, it might be when you're talking about giving up five top prospects for a guy. A little concerning if the guy has clubhouse issues. Not saying Chris does, but there is nothing positive about this. The dudes a hot head. that's been known well before this. He was probably scratched and went all redneck when he was told. It's not a big deal.
  18. ChiSox59

    Chris Sale scratched from start

    QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Jul 23, 2016 -> 05:49 PM) If true Sale just f***ed up their leverage in trade negotiations for him. This does not affect his trade value one iota.
  19. ChiSox59

    White Sox Listening on Sale

    QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 23, 2016 -> 04:17 PM) I love fans saying teams won't part with some of these names. Well, you don't get Chris Sale in that case. Exactly. The Sox are getting an embarrassing amount of talent in a Sale and/or Q trade, or they don't move either. It's really that simple. Sox can and will name the price, and if it won't be met, they'll keep em. These are trades that cannot be messed up.
  20. ChiSox59

    Specific Trade Ideas

    QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 23, 2016 -> 11:19 AM) I suspect that a "king's ransom" was never offered; just some FO guy termed a mediocre offer that. I don't see the point in trading Abreu and I think the chances of that happening are close to zero.
  21. QUOTE (HeGone7 @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 11:48 AM) This is the stuff that drives me nuts. You're 100% correct that those two, in particular, suck. But your comment/opinion is so far off-base. If the Sox are selling, you're acquiring "Elite prospects" in my eyes. Guys who are top 10, 20, 30 and in some cases 40 overall in baseball. But something about them is ELITE. Most of them would come from Sale and Q deals, I pray somehow they can max out value on Frazier, Robertson, Abreu and Eaton to at least get 1 guy on that level. Those guys being acquired, in most cases, are guys who have proven success in the minors or college and are ready for the show. Their chances of not panning out are still there but far less. The expectation is this guy's floor is still a serviceable mlb player. Their peak are guys like Bryant, Fernandez, etc. That is the goal here. There is a major difference between the guys up at the top of those lists and the guys at the bottom. You'll always have guys who don't pan out, but if you want to build a real contender...The Trouts, Harpers, Strasberg's etc come from the top. That is what you're attacking when you're selling these types of talents. Davidson was never remotely in that realm. I think his highest ranking was mid-70's. Which is a good prospect but it also tells you a lot. When you talk about Davidson and using him as an example for what the Sox should do, you're comparing the chances at acquiring a Machado to acquiring a Zach Cozart. I used Cozart because he actually is playing well, and that's what you hope when you get a guy like him, but it requires far more development. He'll also never be on the same planet as Machado and there is a higher risk of not panning out - like a Davidson. Garcia is in the same boat. Very flawed prospect. Detroit loved him, which is great, but no one else seemingly did. He reminds me of Lyle Mouton. This big guy with hype and couldn't hit the ball out of the park if he hit from 2nd base. I fully expect the Sox to get several of these types of players if they sell. Which isn't a bad thing if they get a handful of elite prospects. Then you aren't relying on those Davidson's to save your farm/franchise. But the core of what you're acquiring needs to be proven commodities on other teams. Prospects who have dominated, not played well/ok and show promise. Not guys with one pitch and nothing else. You're getting guys like Urias who ceiling is an ace and floor appears to be a middle rotation arm. My biggest fear is the Sox go after the wrong talent at the top. The 5 tool guys that have been a staple of Kenny Williams failures. If you do, his biggest strength better be his bat because we struggle developing offense. Guys who hit the ball with regularity, and do it well, and can play good defense. Load up with bats. I don't care if the guy has an 80 for speed or 80 for an arm. I want the guys who can play. My other concern is you get too young of players who we are forced to develop. Too much can go wrong in that timespan. The younger they are, the less sample size you have, the higher the risk. San Diego did the right thing for them. They dealt a guy who never has thrown 100 innings, cost them nothing to acquire, and they went boom or bust on a young highly talented arm. The Sox need to be acquiring that same caliber arm AFTER he has proven himself, developed secondary stuff and is ready to come up. That is the major difference here. Some of those guys will likely come in trades, but they just can't be what you're banking on to resurrect the franchise. But back to the original point, you can't look at the past failures of the Sox acquisitions because most of them were what they could get for what they dealt. We got Avi for Peavy, who was 32, declining and frankly sucked 3 of 4 years here. We got Davidson for Reed, who was a 1 year wonder basically as a closer. This time is a whole different animal. You're selling very good/star players in their primes for several "can't miss" type guys who will be on your roster in 2016 or 2017. Maybe 2018 latest. The middle-tier Davidsons that round out packages hopefully are guys you hope pan out, or they get moved for an MLB player when the time is right. I didn't read this whole message, but you sort of lost me at trading Eaton and Abreu. That makes literally no sense. Eaton is the kind of guy we need more of, and we have him locked up long term and cheap. Same could have been said about Jose coming into this year, but the man is still a huge bargain and you don't trade him when his value is lowest.
  22. ChiSox59

    Trading Q vs trading Sale

    QUOTE (WBWSF @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 11:02 AM) Maybe Hahn will fool us and trade Carlos Rodon for some hitting. I would like to think he would bring something decent in return. I would rather see Rodon traded than Sale or Quintana. He should be able to bring back as equally as touted bat, I would think.
  23. QUOTE (ptatc @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 11:20 AM) That's so weird as there were stories 4 years ago that KW wanted to rebuild but JR told him no. This. I think it's always been a JR thing, more than a KW thing.
  24. ChiSox59

    What to do at the Trade Deadline

    QUOTE (Dunt @ Jul 20, 2016 -> 09:33 PM) Just so everyone has a clear idea of the value of Quintana, Cole Hamels and Jake Diekman were traded last year for 3 top 100 prospects (Thompson, Williams, and Alfaro), a MLB starting pitcher (Harrison), and a solid young MLB starter (Eickhoff). Since Q has become a full-time starter, he's been worth 2 more fWAR than Hamels and would have an extra years worth of control. That is the baseline for a Q trade. If you want to talk Sale, better be ready to push all your chips into the center of the table. Neither should be or will be cheap and the Sox are in no rush to get rid of either. Plus half the price of Hamels.
  25. ChiSox59

    7/21/16 Tigers @ Sox

    QUOTE (flavum @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 07:11 AM) A 2-1 game in the 7th should be a game that can be suspended if the teams are playing the next day. Rules need to be looked at again. Anyway, if the Sox lose tonight, they go 23-10, then 23-40. Agreed. It's a damn shame to lose a game that way.