brett05

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 17, 2015 -> 07:44 AM) What non regular White Sox player has been hot the last couple of years? No like for a game or two. Say a guy like Garcia gets a hit, plays the next day and gets two more. Does he play the third day? Nope, back to the bench.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Feb 16, 2015 -> 06:50 PM) Question Can you be specific about what you think Robin does poorly? Nothing super specific comes to mind. His handling of pitchers in game was pretty awful. He seemed to never really have a handle on that with that. He's also be prone to taking a hot guy out of the lineup because that guy wasn't a regular. I'm hoping he improves a ton this year. We'll see.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Feb 16, 2015 -> 06:47 PM) Ooooh I'm gonna start gunning for that "sigh" #newlifegoal lol

Yeah I think it's a good move. Opening Day is going to sell anyway why not try and nab another game out of the public. It's tough, but they gotta beef up attendance somehow.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Feb 16, 2015 -> 01:50 PM) How do you get 3.9 WAR? If you look at straight per season averages he would have had 4.58 bWAR and 4.64 fWAR, but those are pulled way down because he only played in 109 games in '94 (strike) and 54 games in '97 (injury). That's why I chose WAR per 162 games because it gives a better picture of how good they were on a game to game basis. The good thing about stats like OPS+, wRC+ and WAR is that the era doesn't matter. It is how good you were versus your peers. A 120 wRC+ player is 20% better than league average whether it's 1900 or 2000. I'm not going to go thru the flaws of the metrics. That said you just take total war and divide by time played. 39.3 war divided by 10 years gives us his average as a White Sox. You are choosing an unrealistic (IMO) 162 game average as it makes your case look better. I choose what actually happened instead.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 16, 2015 -> 01:48 PM) Middle 90s Robin would look very nice in the White Sox line up right now. That we all agree with. I'd love him in the #2 hole and have Melky move down behind LaRoche

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Feb 16, 2015 -> 01:22 PM) Okay I'll use your link to further my point even more. Robin Ventura peak 10 years (90-99) - #s per 162 games .278/.367/.452/.819, 119 OPS+, 24 HRs, 100 RBIs, 86 BB, 89 Ks, 5.4 fWAR, 6 Gold Gloves Brooks Robinson peak 10 years (62-71) - #s per 162 games .274/.331/.435/.766, 117 OPS+, 21 HRs, 90 RBIs, 53 BB, 59 Ks, 5.7 fWAR, 10 Gold Gloves As you can see, Robin's peak matched up pretty well with Brooks Robinson's. Brooks Robinson was a first ballot Hall of Famer with 90%+ of the vote. The main difference between the two is that Brooks Robinson stayed healthy and played 2896 games, Robin did not and only was able to play 2079 games. Again, I am not saying Robin should be in the Hall of Fame I am just saying that at his best he was as good as a bunch of guys who have been inducted. He averaged 3.9 WAR during the span. In addition, for me, the eras are not comparable. But we clearly aren't getting anywhere with this.

I have a guy that if you want Scout Seats I can give you his email address. PM me if you have an interest. I don't make a dime off of it. I just want the guy to keep his seats as I like the game or two I go each year.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Feb 16, 2015 -> 12:34 PM) Nobody said that Robin should be in the Hall of Fame or that he will ever get in. What I said was that during his peak he performed at a near Hall of Fame level. Which he did as evidenced by the multitude of Gold Gloves and the number of 5+ fWAR seasons. His peaked compared favorably to any number of Hall of Famers, but the main difference was he had a devastating ankle injury at age 29 that progressively worsened as he continued playing and eventually forced to walk with a cane when he finally retired at age 37. Had that injury never occurred, there is no doubt in my mind that Robin would have at least made it into the Hall of Fame discussion as he was a 56.8 fWAR player even with the injury and many state that the Hall of Fame discussion can begin once a player hits 60 fWAR. And I provided my evidence on why he's not from bref

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Feb 16, 2015 -> 12:28 PM) Ah, you got me. You win. Ozzie will make this sox team better immediately, i concede I understand, you hate Ozzie and love Robin. I have no issues with that even though I totally disagree.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Feb 16, 2015 -> 12:25 PM) I think if Robin would have played in this day and age with the way we look at advanced stats, he would be a superstar. The guy played great defense, had good power, struck out at better than average rates, walked a ton, and during his peak hit roughly 25% better than league average and was a 5.5 fWAR player. That would make him roughly a top 10-15 position player in all of baseball. Who knows. All we do know is he got 7 votes his one shot on the ballot. And unless they do massive rule changes like they have with one other prominent 3b, he ain't getting in with the vets either.

QUOTE (dewssox79 @ Feb 16, 2015 -> 12:11 PM) Well I have always wanted SP Roark. Just so happens he maybe going to the pen. Such a waste of talent going to the pen. I'd roll with what we got. If we could replace Robin that would be my only remaining move to take our chances in 2015

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Feb 16, 2015 -> 12:11 PM) Robin was a helluva player. HOVG for sure. Never had the peak required for a serious HOF case but was a good player for the better part of a decade and a useful player almost his entire career. Yep very good is not equal to near HOF. Thanks

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Feb 16, 2015 -> 11:56 AM) I'm not even sure what this is supposed to mean. You're the one defending a horrendous manager in Ozzie Guillen and I'm the fan boy? Did you take a look at the link you posted? Because if you did I don't think you understand what you were looking at. When I look at the page what I see is a guy who had averaged 23 HRs, 96 RBIs, and 5.1 fWAR per 162 with the Sox and had a slash of .274/.365/.440/.805. He also won 5 Gold Gloves with the Sox. A multi Gold Glove winning third basemen that puts up those kind offensive is a near Hall of Fame. Me saying that is not being a fan boy, it's just me knowing what the hell I'm talking about. FYI, career fWAR/162 games (Robin vs the 5 most recent HOF electees and Jeter) Ron Santo - 5.12 Frank Thomas - 5.05 Barry Larkin - 5.02 Robin Ventura - 4.43 Roberto Alomar - 4.35 Derek Jeter - 4.33 Craig Biggio - 3.70 Robin lines up pretty well with these guys when you look at their overall value. I'd look at the link again since you aren't quoting it. Check the Hall qualification. He's no where near an almost HOF

QUOTE (woods of ypres @ Feb 16, 2015 -> 11:42 AM) I posted with Brett on a different forum. This is all your going to get out of him. If you prove him wrong, he'll just reply with "sigh". and you are??????

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Feb 16, 2015 -> 11:33 AM) Yea, why dont you go ahead and relax a bit and while you are relaxing, let me know why it isnt the same. The Marlins dropped a ton of dough on that team and had to dismantle it in 4 months because Ozzie didnt "immediately make it better" Because the Sox team isn't put together the same way????

When I bet baseball was the easiest of all the sports. I made so much money in April that I only had to hit 30% the remaining part of the season to break even.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Feb 16, 2015 -> 10:42 AM) What more can a player do besides perform on the field? Robin performed at a near Hall of Fame level in his ten years with the Sox. He also helped lead them to one ALCS and another season in which they had as good of shot of anybody of winning the World Series if they didn't strike. Ozzie and the media was an absolute circus. He repeatedly threw players and his GM under the bus, trashed departing players and gave inside info to his sons which was leaked to the media on numerous occasions. The guy was an absolute joke. http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/v/venturo01.shtml I'm not sure I can even take you seriously anymore. I've just begun using my account and you've already identified yourself as a fan boy. Sure you don't want to follow a different team?

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Feb 16, 2015 -> 10:40 AM) No it wouldnt, how much did he improve the Marlins? Not the same.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 16, 2015 -> 10:15 AM) What did Guillen do well from 2009 through 2011? Quitting on the team at the end of 2011 when he already had left the Sox for the Marlins the last week of the season? I'm not saying it was time for a change. They went with Ozzie and I was ok with that. If they went back to him it would improve the team immensely right now. And you know that.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Feb 16, 2015 -> 09:18 AM) If you don't see Robin as a Sox icon you would be dead wrong. He has the 6th highest fWAR of any Sox player position player. Well ahead of Baines, Konerko, Fisk and Aparicio all of whom have or will have their numbers retired. Stats do not make a player an icon. Actually he wasn't. His antics was reaching new heights, but he was still doing a good job handling the managerial part (at least compared to Robin) and an even greater job controlling the media away from his players.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 16, 2015 -> 08:30 AM) If the Royals did that at mid-season with Yost, they probably would have missed the playoffs. The hardest thing about managerial changes in-season is that the best options are usually under contract and can't be tampered with. Who do you have in mind that you're absolutely sure would be a better option AND would be available to jump in (step over White Sox icon Ventura's still warm body) and take over? I don't see Robin as an icon at all. I'd look at: Ozzie right away. Takes all the pressure of the media upon himself instead of the media hounding the players.

I'd not have Robin ranked as high as he is. I'd also rank Sandberg ahead of him quite easily. I'd love to have a replacement for him ASAP. If we start out like 2-6 please Jerry, can him and bring in somebody to manage the club. We have a shot this year.

Dunn

I'll take Conor