fredmanrique

my favorite part of the rebuild the last two years was that we could all see the plan and the fanbase had an air of positivity. the ' I'm done with Hahn' vibe if he doesn't get Harper or Machado despite trying is nauseating sox fan negativity. we'll never truly know if we're outbid, players simply wanted to play elsewhere, etc. to date, nothing suggests the plan is off path within hahn's control. Alonso is a 9 mil gamble but it's not a dead weight player either. playing matchups between abreu, Alonso, palka at 1b/dh is an improvement in defense and likely offense. you do your best to reel the big fish in and if you cant, take on some bad contracts, add more prospects and go hard at arenado, etc in a year. 'but I've waited too long as a sox fan!' um, its year three of a rebuild that involved almost a full sell off. it stinks moncada and giolito in particular cause hesitation as to if this will work, but there's really no choice but to be a fan or not, with a healthy reminder there are 29 other teams and free agency simply will never work out for all.

this is simply a ridiculous thread. next thing you know an average middle reliever might sign with one of the other 29 teams in baseball!

If the Yankees really do get Machado, maybe there is a larger deal where Yanks also get Abreu and we can get Andujar. Include Fry, Soria, whoever to add a top young guy at 3b

Latest rumor had them going after Darvish. I wonder if it is moving Braun and that salary to Sox. I hope not unless we are talking Brinson, Hader, etc.

I'm not super interested in having a good lineup while James shields is our ace in 2018. I'm super interested in locking in key pieces for the next 5-7 years. Hence, I'd still be down with moving Abreu and Avi, while adding Yelich. It's all about 2020 and beyond there. With 2019 looking like a major step forward.

Well, I'd like to leverage an $81M payroll to take on money and think pence is perfect and there should be motivation to dump him. Moving Avi to clear RF for Eloy makes sense. I'm fine keeping Avi and seeing if he forces us to want to keep him long term too. Soo... I'm interested in getting as much talent as Avi + a bad contract yields to get legit top 50 talent. If that means Ramos +, and that is universally more than we would get for Avi alone, sure. More assets that either play alongside eloy and robert in the future or help fill holes down the road.

if they want to maximize this all in 1-2 year period it would be quite helpful to turn dead money pence at 18 mil into Avi and something like Holland to close. Maybe even have money under the soft cap left for Dyson in center. That's a team with a slight chance and if it all implodes in 18 months, that's the risk anyway. Having one prospect won't stop the half decade tear down that would be necessary if it doesn't work for them

I bet they'd love to move that pence contract. Avi and shedding the pence contract, which has one year left for heliot Ramos. sounds like he's a legit top 50 guy in the next rankings... and a top 50 guy is fairly great for 2 years of Avi

I wonder if Hahn is sniffing around the situations the Yankees care about in an attempt to get Torres. We could take back part of the ellsbury contract, include prospects or abreu depending on the situation. for instance, the Yankees won't include Torres for Cole, but maybe they do for Cole and abreu if it also sheds Ellsbury. Abreu would be a heck of a dh on that team. pirates - Frazier, Chance and Spencer Adams sox - Torres, Ellsbury Yankees- Cole, Abreu it's a lot for one prospect and moves Anderson to center, but interesting

I just think yelich goes this off-season and the desire to shed money in Miami works in our favor. If it means minimal prospect cost take back prado and Chen. his excess value isn't nearly as large then and maybe Chen eats innings for awhile.

What if there is an elaborate 3 way on hahn's mind? Abreu and Avi to the same team, maybe Rockies or blue jays. Prospects from that deal plus maybe one guy like Rutherford to Marlins. Take money back too like prado. Pull every lever you can that doesn't involve our top prospects. That's be cool. My hypothesis is that 4 years of abreu, avi is worth about 60% of 5 years of yelich

I would take all the money and include a prospect going out for walker buehler

let's get back to steps that help a rebuild that makes sense. it sounds like la is looking to attach decent prospects to move kemp now. deal avi for prospects, take kemp with prospects. keep adding prospects.

that's pretty in line with what I was thinking. Dexter Fowler got 5/82. Feels like OBJ Abreu is encarnacion, he got 3/60 but more years, like 5/100

3 way? Boston seems to want to sign JDM. Move benintendi to CF Send JBJ off to Arizona for example, Abreu to Boston we try to net Pavin Smith along with Chavis, maybe Groome If you can get 3 top 100s for Abreu, that is a lot. More than we should expect

It does feel like posturing before next week a bit. I wonder if the biggest prospect we could get is Rodgers in Colorado with the thought being he could be 3b for the next decade. Abreu and Avi and take on that Desmond deal. What does that unlock? Rodgers, Pint +? That's a lot for cashing our last chips in considering our control on abreu and avi is in seasons we arent contenders and they would have a stacked lineup in Colorado with dahl/blackmon/avi/arenado/story/lemahieu/abreu/lucroy if they bring him back if taking back Desmond nets us two top 50 guys, one in the top 10, I say go for it. you could argue they should also include McMahon and/or more in that hypothetical

Just a general observation about AAV and excess value, as I notice a lot of people using that to lower their perception of an Abreu return at his salary. Does it not ignore supply and demand and pretend as though any of 30 teams can have any player at what they view as appropriate value WAR for dollar spent? There are only so many consistent top 10 hitting first basemen in baseball. The whole league these days ttys so hard now to accouunt for defense, it overinflates guys like Hayward, and undervalued almost all 1b in my opinion. Part of that is less steroids in the game too. Just a thought when people say groome+chavis (or whatever) is too much for abreu

a front loaded abreu extension with two more years of control makes sense to me too! really think the payroll flexibility should yield more prospects by taking on bad one year deals. if you want to eat a big, long deal like Ellsbury , would need to receive 2 maybe 3 top prospects, just can't see Yankees doing that. I.e. how much would people pay for Chance Adams if he was posted like Luis Robert? Not 50 mil, you'd need to receive 3 chance Adams for the favor of sitting Ellsbury on the bench

The more I think about it the less it makes sense to lock up abreu at $20mil + per year in 2020 and beyond. (age 32-37ish) Love the mentor angle with moncada but bring in one year vets like Melky or Adrian Gonzalez to fill that role. (taking on minimal salary or getting a legit prospect to take on that contract in the A Gon example) I'd do groome, Rodriguez with Boston or McMahon plus from Colorado for abreu. it's probably not time for Avi deal until midseason - where we decide if he's part of the core or not, but I bet Atlanta would love to turn kemp into Avi in right. Take on that kemp deal and I bet we could get multiple starters in top 100 back. not their top guys but Ian Anderson, gohara, etc. Point is, we can keep payroll similar by swapping abreu and avi for veterans that can also be mentors (not sure about kemp) while adding 3-4 legit pitching prospects at different stages of arrival. i.e. Rodriguez, groome, Anderson, gohara. That's too much potential for 2 years of control of veteran leadership.

Yes to this ^ All day. I can't remember a time that many get moved in 2 months, and it is semi-unlikely, but i sure hope that is the goal.

Putting quintana, abreu and jones in the wait until winter bucket. It starts to look like the only way to get the top 25-125 type guys we have been tracking is to bundle people to the best possible contender. A team seeking a 4/5th starter upgrade and multiple bullpen arms. So positive spin: that is most contending teams by july. Robertson, jennings, migo to WAS for something led by Soto? Swarzak, Frazier, Y. Sanchez to BOS for something led by Groome? Melky, kahnle, holland to STL for kelly? Gut the bullpen, eat money. Add the best prospects possible til q hopefully rebounds in the 2H

Have a feeling hahn has been passing on a package with glasnow and newman but not keller up to this point.

I wish Colorado would go wild and all in. Q, Abreu, Robertson for Dahl, Rodgers, Hoffman, Tapia, Pint I know it'll never happen but how much would Q alone cost...

No Reynaldo Lopez? Love the Kopech rank though.

Dude, super strong opinions without the facts are hot right now. To the open minded, they also become annoying... In the game of what ifs, what if houston isnt including martes in a sox offer? I remember reading that. What if the third guy in a glasnow, newman deal is just diaz, not keller. If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we'd all have a merry Christmas