he gone.

It's such an awful franchise. And the players they do decide to spend on make no sense. I always pick a handful of teams I like to watch besides the Sox. I've watched many more Marlins games than i care to admit (Astros, Mariners, Rays, STL too) Soler on a 3 year deal coming off a few month hot streak with Braves was asinine, especially in that park. Avi Garcia can somewhat be defended, maybe. But end of the day when you have Sandy and Pablo at the top of your rotation + Luzardo, Eury Perez, Rogers, Edward Cabrera, Braxton Garrett, not to mention Max Meyer and Sixto Sanchez. Now it's been a mess of development on a number of those guys with big question marks on others ... but how the hell do you not trade some of that depth, especially when they still have their prospect shine to them for bats?! It's just so dumb. If I'm them, with the division how it is with the Mets and Braves set for the foreseeable future ... not to mention the Phillies spending and off a WS? I'm trading Sandy for the best package I can grab of like 3-4 really solid bats/prospects. You're not going to win with him in his prime, so you might as well cash in on many bats and then hopefully by the time they're ready the Soler/Avi contracts are done and you're off and running ... Sorry for turning this into a Marlins board hahaa

His arm. Graded out as the top arm in terms of velocity in all of MLB at 2B. Oddly enough, 2nd place was Segura.

Marlins are one of the few franchises that are even worse than the Sox, and yet have a few WS over 25 years. I'm not entirely sure what their thought process has been over the last few years ... they've stock piled pitching talent, some that has panned out, others that have not and continue to tread water. Whats the real difference between Brian Anderson at 3B and Jean Segura with the latter costing more. By the way, I've said that name like 12 times this offseason .... Brian Anderson makes so much sense in my own opinion as a RF/3B until Colas comes up. He's also done LF, 1B, SS, and 2B for short, short time frames. He's not amazing but can give you .255/.340obp with some pop and a nice amount of doubles. In short, he's got a strong arm, can barrel and nice exit velocity plus take walks. 1 year and 4mm might get it done. Gives you a nice option at a few positions. Probably comparable to sheets honestly, so probably don't see a deal get done, but always thought he was a nice fit.

It's not that I don't believe in Sosa or Romy. I actually believe in them fine and don't particularly think 2B is a very important position. That said, when a 2 year, 17mm for a very serviceable veteran 2B who can also play SS and 3B is available during "championship window" if you're a competent franchise you take that flier. Worst case is you have a 5X better Leury who can be your utility IF for a reasonable price on a 2 year deal. End of the day our GM (with TLR pressure and love) has Leury on 2/11mm deal. These are the type of mistakes that are just gut wrenching. They're not huge, but they're impactful

The Segura one hurts in so many ways. a) There's no doubt Hahn wanted Segura. I'd venture a complete guess that 75/25 he went to JR to present the price/ask and was turned down. If we don't have 2/17mm in the chamber, then our offseason is done. b) If he did want Segura, and JR said no, then Hahn likely went to the trade market for feelers on guys like Leury + ___, Kelly, etc. and didn't find anything. If he had motivation to clear space for Segura and couldn't, then it's likely we've seen the last of trades for the Sox c) Segura made so much sense in terms of a double play team, his ability to fill in at SS for Anderson if/when he hits IL or needs an off day. Could also play 3B. He grades out so well at 2B defense, and was a very affordable piece on a very clear need for the Sox. This is our team, this is our future. It's the Sox being stuck in the middle. Mired in mediocrity. Keeping Hendriks & Giolito, getting nothing in return at YE, and also not going for it this year in any way, even when presented with clear, reasonable options like Segura. Hey, at least we'll maybe be able to go after him in the trade market come July if/when Romy/Sosa fail. Though, Marlins already structured his contract where it's backloaded to the team they're going to trade him to. 6.5/8.5 with a 10mm option and a 2mm buyout. So whatever team they ultimately trade him to will pick up basically 1.5 years at 13.5mm. Marlins and White Sox, same franchise.

I referred to the contract that Rodon got after 2021. He had pitched 172IP over 3 years. He got a six year deal after two seasons of relative health. Basically choose your fighter. Rodon coming into the 2022 season off his 132IP with the Sox in 2021 and lingering shoulder concerns at 2/44 or Sale coming off his 3 year stretch at 2/55. Which do you choose? I'd personally go with Sale who has many 200ip+ seasons under his belt.

I'd agree with this take. If Sale, even with injuries, came to market this season 2/55mm is very fair deal. Look at what Rodon got after ONE year of success and stigma of injury. Still got 2/44. Sale had a routine surgery nowadays (TJS) and then got hit with a comebacker and some bad luck.

That can be your opinion. I don't think anything is black and white and we don't know Trevor personally and tend to think it's a complex issue/question with a lot of imperfect arguments that we tend to justify as humans. Historically you tend to be more black and white on issues than I am. Just differencing of opinions.

He will be much lower since he hasnt played in a year and the year before that he was not very good. He will be a 1 year deal guy with high incentives. Said I'd bookmark this for when he signed... he got 2/36mm with the opt out after year one. We'll bookmark this for when he signs. I'll go 1 year, $16mm. Don't forget ... Seiya Suzuki, $17mm annually, Avi garcia $13.25mm annually, Soler $12mm annually (all multi year), Mark Canha $13.25mm annually...Schwarbs $20mm. Andrew McCutchen got $8.5mm, Tommy Pham got $7.5mm... If you're saying the price of Conforto is less than Mark Canha just cause of a shoulder injury and time off then sign me up. Getting the same type of deal that McCutchen got would be a steal. I'd fire my agent in a second if that's what he told me to sign.

Ya, PR would be in overdrive. LIkely a spin of second chances, "changed man", did our research, lean on the not guilty verdict, short leash, etc. This isn't the first rodeo of a sexual deviant needing cover ... These organizations are well versed in how to play public.

any type of topic like this is always a lightning rod. Any time there's a perceived GOOD V BAD it's human nature, especially, amongst peers to make sure it's known you're on team GOOD. What I'd offer is we're all human, we all make mistakes. I understand what Bauer has done is abhorrent, and to me, it's hard to look the other way. I'd have a really hard time giving him a second chance based on his (public) lack of apology and accountability. Even if found not guilty the actions he was accused and guilty of in the public opinion are just down right gross regardless if the women played any role in it. That said, i know there are many that dislike Daryl Boston based on his past doings. I'd ask how is his past really much different than Bauer? How to you justify being a fan of the Sox still with him, but with Bauer would not? Some team will take a chance on him ... he will get booed and the blowback will be huge. Time will pass and it will be an afterthought in due time. Soon he'll just be known as D. Boston, Ozuna, Chapman, Osuna, etc. etc. I dont think it makes sense for the Sox as we're not trying to win at all costs already, so why start now with Bauer? But agree with some of the teams being thrown around ... Mets, Rangers, Padres, Rockies, maybe even Twins, Angels, Brewers, maybe a team like Reds or Pirates for trade bait. Don't think the list is long of teams that will take the blowback, but definitely think some team will roll the dice.

Trading relievers at their peak value is smart baseball generally. It isn't always the easiest sell to a fan base, but there are many examples of faltering bullpen arms. They come and go. We have some decent internal options. I reluctantly want to do a deal, but the return better be good, and one that fills a longer term need.

Also, not that it's applicable to this thread, however, digging into those stats, Segura makes so much sense to make this a better team TODAY. His defense grades very well and is a reasonable price. I have a super soft spot for Romy and Sosa, though I also had a soft spot for Yolmer and Micah Johnson, so what do i know? Would love those guys to get an opportunity, but Segura makes so much sense if we can offload a Kelly or Leury contract somehow.

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/arm-strength Just to present the other side of the argument. I'm not sure of how Brett Baty grades out at 3B, however if you look at Moncada he was slightly above average in terms of arm strength and outs above average at 3B in 2022. If you go back and populate 2019-2022 (all of his main years at 3B) he grades out again in that same type of range. Definitely not in the Chapman/Hayes top guys, but more towards the middle of the pack, slightly better. However, if you take his arm strength and put it at 2B, he's all of a sudden top of the pack next to essentially SS's playing 2B. Jean Segura, Bryson Stott, etc. (shocking, but didn't know this until reading the chart, Romy Gonzalez ranked as the second strongest arm in MLB at 2B!, whoa!) However, that's not to say his range plays well. https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/outs_above_average?type=Fielder&startYear=2016&endYear=2017&split=no&team=&range=year&min=100&pos=4&roles=&viz=show Over the period of 2016 and 2017 at 2B Moncada was -2 for outs above average. It graded around Altuve. Unsure what happened in 2018 ... He graded out at the bottom. Daniel Murphy bottom. Someone with a better memory would have to remind me if he was injured that year or what was going on. https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/outs_above_average?type=Fielder&startYear=2018&endYear=2018&split=no&team=&range=year&min=100&pos=4&roles=&viz=show I absolutely think a Baty is a great return and would love him to be on the Sox, even if it costs Hendriks. That said, it depends on if you think you can get 2016/7 Moncada at 2B or if you're going to get 2018 Moncada. If he's going to have no range and the shift is banned? You're going to expose a big issue at 2B which won't help this team win. 2B are going to need to be more rangey than ever this year. Basically boiling it down, you better be confident that 2018 was an outlier or Moncada to 2B and Baty to 3B doesn't fit. It'd be more of the Vaughn/Sheets type of issues that have plagued this franchise.

I just dont know how I'll feel if this all comes together and Leury goes to the Mets in a deal and wins a World Series.

ha, i was just saying more along the lines, what else are we supposed to talk about in a message forum in the offseason? a conversation if Benny can hit homers seems relevant coming off a year where we didn't drive the ball at all. There are a ton of arduous, pointless conversations on this board, especially during the offseason. Discussing Benny's underlying stats and statcast numbers seems like one of the more relevant conversations to have.

God, what a pointless fuckin argument no one else cares about.

Good thought out and relevant response. I'm sorry the topic of our highest paid free agent and his ability or inability to drive the ball, how Guaranteed Rate plays a factor into results, and statistics bore you. Do you have something to add to the conversation in a December offseason thread? Or just complaining to complain and needed to voice it?

Yep, all you gotta do is search their name in baseball savant. it'll show you all their info.

Also, we'll see how this copy/pastes, otherwise I'll give the link. Anti stat people may want to give baseball savant a look. https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/andrew-benintendi-643217?stats=statcast-r-hitting-mlb bUt hE dOeSnT pLaY aLl 162 gAmEs aT GuAraNtEeD rAtE! -- no s%*# sherlock. it's to say maybe, just maybe, his power isn't poor. He's shown the ability to drive the ball. He's also shown to be a heady player that can change his approach based on need. Expected Home Runs by Park Year HR 2016 3 5 5 4 5 5 3 5 4 2 4 3 3 4 4 5 4 5 3 4 6 3 4 4 4 5 5 4 3 4 5 2017 21 19 28 18 20 24 19 19 21 15 22 18 15 17 19 22 18 19 14 21 24 19 18 17 18 19 21 17 20 20 23 2018 16 21 23 17 17 17 17 23 18 11 16 19 15 12 18 21 16 21 11 19 19 18 16 19 20 21 21 16 20 16 24 2019 13 20 23 13 13 14 16 20 20 16 15 15 7 14 12 19 12 25 9 17 19 13 12 15 15 16 20 12 18 14 21 2020 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2021 17 24 28 15 25 28 22 24 26 23 23 21 13 19 19 29 29 25 20 21 26 17 19 26 23 25 27 17 26 17 30 2022 5 12 14 9 9 8 8 9 8 8 8 9 5 4 8 10 9 12 4 8 10 8 8 10 11 8 11 6 10 7 12 Player 75 101 122 76 89 96 85 100 97 76 88 85 58 70 80 106 88 107 61 90 104 78 77 91 91 94 105 72 97 78 115 ! Note: This tells how many of this player's home runs would have been out of other stadiums. This accounts for different wall heights, distances and environmental effects. For these purposes, the 2020 Blue Jays home field was still Rogers Centre,

And yet you wonder how we end up with Sheets in RF and Vaughn in LF. It's just baseball, who needs stats? Its baseball, they should be able to throw and catch a ball wherever they're put.

Also, not sure why it quoted that part... I meant to do this part. oh well

That's just not factually true. His expected HR total in 2021 if played at Guaranteed Rate was 29 homers. In 4 of his 5 normal'ish seasons, aka not his cup of tea in his 1st year or Covid season .. he'd hit 20'ish homeruns. Rubbish that he doesn't have power.

In theory I agree. I don't care how many articles are written about Colas, Championship worthy teams don't go into the season with a giant question mark in Right Field. I don't care how talented he may be or what he turns out to be. There are definite gaps in his resume and we've had more than enough history with Robert and Eloy to know there will need to be AB's for others in the OF (even with Eloy at DH). Someone like Conforto fits the short term duration, the cost, & also the OBP that this team really needs (imo). I'd love to trade someone like Kelly if money truly is a concern and bring in Conforto. That said some other options that I'd also like to consider (in order) that are more realistic. Tyler Naquin (Lefty) Brian Anderson (OF and 3B backup) Trade for Edward Olivares Tommy Pham None are sexy, all bring something to the table that Sheets does not.

Positives: he's a pitcher that could put us over the top for a world series. the contract would be cheap and likely short in duration. can never have too many arms Negatives: just from the outside looking in, i dont get the sense he has much remorse or has yet to mature. think he may just be a scumbag to the core. i dont particularly want to cheer for a team with him on it regardless how much it helps us win. Look, baseball is littered with these type of guys. Chapman always comes to top of mind for me ... Marcell Ozuna ... the way things work is you're given a punishment and you serve it. If he's done that he's fine to resume his normal life. There are consequences to his actions and he's living that. I'd pass personally, but wouldn't revolt if we had interest.