he gone.
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Posts posted by he gone.
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45 minutes ago, ChiSoxTrojan said:
Your case for the under is like 3 times as long as your case for the over. Just saying.
Oh i know. not lost on me. i currently hate this team. I hope it all goes right, but many more off ramps for a poor season.
Standing pat ensures almost no path to success this year or into the future, while also really cornering yourself on assets like Lucas Giolito who will not be resigning with us. We'll be in the thick of the race, or at least in fighting distance and we're gonna have to hold onto him and get nothing in return.
Trading our core and retooling would've been the better option here. We feel like the Rockies just slowly dying with our core that clearly doesn't have the talent to win it all, but also not trading them.
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Seems like a good number based on the responses here. Sports books trying to get you at 50/50 end of day.
Case for over:
Everything that could go wrong, went wrong last year at 81 wins. (save Cease who was incredible). You're rolling it back with seasons of health from TA, Eloy, Robert, Lynn, etc. etc. You should have improved OF defense with Vaughn in his proper place & you should have improved seasons from Grandal, Yoan and Giolito. Overall, 81 seems like the absolute floor with 90 a reality.
Case for the under:
The biggest holes were 2b and RF and we did not address them. Our SP depth is very suspect and if Clevinger doesn't suit up, you now are relying on Davis Martin for an extended role + undoubtedly the injuries to the pitching staff. You're going to have to find 100+ innings out of someone and that someone isn't going to be very good. Hendriks is an AS caliber closer and without him, you're blowing 3-5 games more than last year. Cueto was a sponge eating innings and keeping us in games. You lost your rock and #3 hitter in Abreu which will be a giant crater. We've seen enough of a track record out of our talented guys in Yoan, Eloy, Robert to know what we have, and it'll take a perfect scenario for those guys to not only stay healthy but be productive. Grandal's knees are shot and we have no real backup C. Relying on Colas is weak as his plate discipline is suspect and likely will need to rely on Sheets in RF for extended periods of time. We can't just rely on playing AL Central teams to prop us up anymore which will lead to more losses. There's no leadership in the locker room and the fan base has given up. Have a cold start to the season and Giolito + Grandal + others will be out the door. This team has a real good shot to limp into August/September. 77 wins may be a good guess.
Reality:
Somewhere in between 90 and 77 ... cut the difference or ... 83.5 wins.
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I don't show close to sold out ....
Looks like 10k+ available.
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It's actually impressive that we found a way to get worse at 2b over this offseason. The bar was low, and hahn said hold my beer. brett lawrie and gordon beckham in their current state/age would have a shot at winning this spot in spring training.
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Just saw we start at home with a M/W/R day games ... against the Giants. WOOF. 33,000, 9,000, 13,000
There's then another 8 games in between before a 3 game wknd set against the Orioles. 19k, 24k, 22k
Then M/T/W against the Phillies, w/ the getaway day being a day game 12k, 12k, 12k
Followed by a 4 game weekend set to finish the month against the Rays. 14k, 19k, 26k, 21k
I know the Phillies have some talent and made the WS, but my god, is that an awful April schedule to start the home slate. We might average 17,000 in April outside of the home opener (which i dont think even sells out)
And that's probably sold seats. I'd guess the actual attendance will be quite a bit less.
What a terrible year to be a season ticket holder. A great year to wait until last minute to grab Scout Seats though. I used to do that in the past and grab day off for $100-110. Probably will be my strategy for any games this year too.
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I dont think i've heard of this voucher option ... that sounds better than season tix to be honest. Still wouldn't pull the trigger on it, but definitely more enticing. I had great seats, the type i've dreamed about since a kid. Couldn't get rid of them at half price. ended up only being able to go to like half the games due to work commitments. Overall just not a fun experience and very expensive. I really just don't see a situation where i ever buy season tickets again. I'd rather go to a few games a year when i know the weather is perfect or the pitching matchup is lining up to be great or i have a day off of work randomly rather than try and fit a square into a round hole. Plus now that we suck again, who cares where your seats are, just sit wherever you'd like again.
Ah, so depressing. "The Championship Window" is us balking at buying tickets, getting an F on offseason grade, and back to back offseasons of talking about TLR or Clevinger types while watchign Abreu suit up for the defending champs. Fire them all into the sun. This franchise is in the bottom 5% of all professional sports.
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I think we can change that F to an A ... sox signed Nate Mondou!!!!
27 year old in the A's organization who made it up to the majors for a week last year.
That said, we know how impossible it was to make that A's roster. They were going for that World Series and just gridlock on the MLB roster with talent.
We don't have to blab on about Jazz anymore. We have our second baseman for the next DECADE!
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In the end, just like all instances in life ... his future will be determined between the ultimate seriousness of acts v. his talent and contributions he may bring to an employer (aka $$).
We all have a line and we draw it in different places. We can go on for 20 more pages discussing where that line is and how good or bad a person that makes us individually.
I already was planning on cutting down my Sox attendance this year from a dozen to a handful of games. Them retaining Clevinger would probably reduce me from 5 games to 2-3 games. But if the Sox were winning like 2020/21 and Clevinger had a 2ERA I'd be at 6-8 games. Does that make me a terrible human? I'm not here to be anybody's God or judger. I'm here to have cold beer on a warm day and watch fun baseball.
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2 hours ago, raBBit said:
I think Clevinger gets 20-40 games and is pitching for the Sox by the end of May.
Looking at his case compared to other recent DV incidents, he is not being charged criminally, he is not being pursued civilly, he was not put on administrative leave shortly after the investigation was opened and there are no witnesses to the incident being investigated. It is just a case of he said, she said between (former) partners. When the league has had evidence to the severity of a given DV investigation recently, they have quickly acted putting players on administrative leave (including and not limited to Ozuna, Bauer, German and Carlos Martinez). Clevinger has already pitched for months since this investigation was opened.
The most comparable case to me would be Addison Russell and in Russell's case, he took accountability for the allegations made against him. Of course things can change, but as of now, Clevinger's camp is denying the accusations.
It is pretty hard to investigate this if you're the MLB (no authorities to cooperate, operating on testimonial evidence almost exclusively) and pretty difficult to punish if you're the Sox (per the DV policy, the MLB is supposed to levy punishment and the team has to consider the possibility for the a grievance from the union).
Hopefully this stuff wraps up soon as the MLB has already had over half a year to investigation and to hopefully stop this from being a distraction to the team.
That's probably the level-headed answer and outcome.
Have a feeling him pitching for the Sox comes down to financial decision for Sox brass. Aka, lose $12mm just cutting him loose, the losses as result of having no #5 pitcher and no depth resulting in a worse record, less ticket sales, etc. versus retaining him, pissing off a fan base, maybe losing ticket sales, bad PR, etc. etc.
I'd be shocked if the Sox make a decision on any moral ground, at the end of the day it'll be a money equation.
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Anybody else getting more and more follow ups lately?
I ended up blocking the reps number.
If they wanted to sell tickets they shouldve had an offseason plan after last years disaster ... yet here we are. have a feeling their numbers are poor going into the season against what the sox (in their own minds) is a very strong payroll commitment.
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Hey at least we get a great call for a few more years. I do very much still want the sox to bring in a 3rd person .... a much younger person. I know jason is young ... but like someone who doesnt have the soul of a 80 year old. That 3rd person should be the next in line for Stones job. I'd love to have someone like AJ or another past Sox guy ... but please, god, don't let it be gordon beckham. he has improved a ton over the years and maybe he finds his way still, but i'd love to see them bring in a guy with a personality.
Here's an idea ... Ozzie via facetime screen in the corner for an inning a game?
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I would imagine this is true. I get the sense that Benetti is somewhat loyal ... to a point. He's also human and by all accounts getting very good reviews on national games and other sports. You see what some of these guys make on that national basis and then whatever he makes with the Sox ...
It's only a matter of time and the best solution for now is probably allowing him more time away to do those games while allowing Kasper to spot fill. My guess is we continue this path with Jason until the Sox "championship window" starts closing and then he just goes and does his own thing. If i fast forward 2-3 years I think he's gone.
Don't think it's out of his system yet and think he truly enjoys both working with Stone, but also the Sox. I wouldn't even be surprised if part of the issue is he wants Stone back and the Sox don't. It can be so many things, but I doubt we'll ever hear or truly know the reason or how close or far he is from walking away. I just get the sense the longer this goes without resolution the clearer the outcome will be and the sooner it will be.
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I don't want to start on a negative note with the guy, but i do think it's a bit telling that the sox floated nicky lopez by him and he said we should explore. Especially considering he couldn't get nicky to hit at all.
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I don't want to break the internet. but the sox reached out to me to fill their 2b position too. I last played in 7th grade, but was an all star on the Villa Park squad. I have a NRI to spring training so well see what happens. wish me luck!
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15 hours ago, LittleHurtCG said:
It would be very hard to put together a 25 man roster if dudes who cheated on their wifes or baby mama's were not allowed to play professional baseball.
haha oh i know. ive said it a few times before but when i was in my 20's there was a bar that both i and the sox used to frequent a lot. they're not trying to hide it very well. the only guy that seemed to have it under control was paul konerko. he was like a bouncer outside a fancy club. he not only denied every girl, he wouldn't even sit next to them or take a picture. paulie is a legend.
the worst? not that its my business or anybodys but he did it so openly continuously ... peavy. that man was a dog. him and ryan dempsters wife at the time were ... um ... very close ...
I don't love that these guys do that stuff and I've taken the same mindset as you ... im trying to watch fun baseball. i'm not 8 years old and looking for an idol. these guys can do whatever they want to a point.
However for me that point is when things start becoming illegal and/or can have charges. a kid is 10/10 no-no. i know theyre allegations, but to me ... kid is a non-starter. I'll hear out the story on a guy like bauer and try to find the reasonable take, but as soon as you involve a kid its over for me. Can't have that guy on my team.
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3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:
Worth noting, found the rules. MLB is required under a confidentiality clause to not inform the teams until they are actually ready to take actions.
They can inform the players club when they are:
1 Announcing discipline or filing of a grievance
2. Establishing a treatment plan
3. Required to notify by a court orderMLB itself, if I'm reading this right, could not inform the White Sox of an open investigation unless they were ready to announce discipline.
It could be possible for the White Sox to have found out something else if they ran a sufficient background check, but MLB couldn't have commented to them.
Section VI: http://content.mlb.com/documents/2/9/2/296982292/Major_League_Player_Joint_DV_SA_CA_Policy_English_2018.pdf
Kinda true, but also wasn't he a known dick/cheater. I don't feel like going back, but wasn't it known he was cheating on his baby mama? Or something along those lines? It's enough red flags to me if i knew of his background ... for like the FO who is cutting a 12mm check to maybe make a bunch of calls to see what they could unearth ....
We traded the Padres tatis ... we coulda picked up the phone and be like ... anything we should know? I dont know what normal protocol is but i kinda think if i was giving away that much money id make a few calls first.
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17 minutes ago, Chick Mercedes said:
Interestingly, some were advocating acquiring Bauer. Wonder if they want both.
If we're going to keep Clevinger, might as well. I'm half serious. Whats the difference at that point? We have no morals if we keep him, so why not double down and actually win.
Who wants to even cheer for this sox team? we had a dysfunctional clubhouse with mr. dui at the helm, TA discretions, no leaders, etc. So we fix it by letting go of Abreu and bringing in Clevinger and a 1st time manager..
This team is a disgrace and not even fun to cheer for. Good riddance. This is like strike 8 for me as a fan.
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1 hour ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:
How many years of control does Strider have? That's the major issue
Why? For reference he signed a 6 year and 75mm extension. So they have him for 6 more years, and they're not cheap and are guaranteed unlike Crochet. We have all the upside and none of the downside.
Spencer Strider also went through TJS at Clemson. He pitched 12IP in 2019 and 2020 combined. Sound familiar? He only has two pitches. Sound familiar? Never topped out at high innings in minors or college. Sound familiar?
He came back in 2021 and pitched 94ip and then 131ip this year.
This is the exact path that Crochet should be on. He's not going to hit 94ip this year due to the longer recovery, but Spencer Strider is your comp as a Sox fan.
I know its the fun thing to do on this board to just say "no" or to disagree with every single take. It's a message board ala Twitter. It's what people seem to do on the internet ... disagree to disagree. But Crochet should aim to be Strider and Sox fans should too. He's cheap and we have no downside to push him, especially if its what he wants.
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Definitely agree there. Need him fully healthy before pushing at all. But there's an opportunity here to get him innings even if he's not up to full speed. Birmingham innings v. middle relief innings to me are the same. If he responds to middle relief innings then give him higher leverage. But overall, just start logging innings.
If his arm is going to fall off and his health is going to suck it'll do the same out of the bullpen too. We have him on a cheap, short contract until FA, so why not run him out and give him every chance to compete in the largest role possible?
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For every person that says "no" or "it's not possible" I'd just like them to explain to me Spencer Strider.
Top innings was 51ip in college, did 94ip in the minors, and then converted from long man to starter and was very impactful for the Braves at 131ip. He has two pitches. He throws 95% fastball/slider. Now the slider is one of the best pitches in the MLB...
However, for all naysayers, take your best crack at explaining Strider. To me, there's too many people in this world who are too comfortable saying "can't".
Now, that said, without Hendriks I think it's much tougher.
i think the sox were/are grooming Lopez for the closers role. Because of that they would like to keep him out of the spotlight to get him on a reasonable extension. without hendriks i think they'll now have to lean on crochet and graveman, kelly a lot more to keep lopez out of the closer spot as to not drive up his price. But before that injury I was all on board getting Crochet 80-100ip and letting him rev up into the end of the season when we need him the most.
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22 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:
Twins beats talking about maybe a 6 man rotation since they're pretty much all injury prone.
This would be my guess as well. Lots of guys with injury problems. Just go 6 until you get to 5. Based on their history's they'll probably even have times when they only have 4 and Paddack as the 5th.
This is kinda what I wanted with Sox. Wanted to sign Cueto even with Clev. To me it's smart to go 6 man. Let these guys ease into the season. Generally there's at least one injury, so would be 5 man a lot of the season anyways.
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He's played 1b and 2b among other positions. They're just going to move Jazz over to SS.
Also, they have a bunch of guys who can play all over the infield .... Segura, Jazz, Arraez, Wendle, etc.
I don't see them trading Jazz at all.
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22 hours ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:
Sox added Mike Morin on a MiLB deal. He hasn’t pitched at all since 2020. I’ll never get why they bring in such random ass arms each year over someone whose actually has potential.
22 hours ago, Bob Sacamano said:There was a thread when he signed but it seems like it was deleted after existing for 20 minutes. This was sometime last week I believe.
Ya, that was me. have a connection. Honestly i dont see the downside. from what i gather this was a Katz deal. Katz and morin overlapped with the angels and think he's the reason the sox signed him.
He's had success early in his career and overall is a guy who's not going to walk guys. he limits hard contact. not going to really strike guys out, but is a decent bullpen arm. It's really not a bad signing at all - he's been in the majors in every year he was healthy since his rookie season and his xERA is 3.50 range or so for his career. Had TJS during Covid season with Marlins and rehabbed all of 2021. He was caught in the periphery of the Tyler Skaggs death alongside CJ Cron, Harvey, etc. which between that, TJS and being just a serviceable guy seems to have got him blacklisted a bit. Wouldn't be surprised at all to see him up with the team in 2023 and being an option. im biased, but think it's a good signing and obviously very low risk.
He's not going to be that electric 98mph fastball out of the pen, but he should get you outs and be reliable.
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Pham for $6mm is a lot compared to Brian Anderson at $3.5mm. In my opinion at least.
The Cease line is music to the White Sox FO. The fact he is willing to do a "fair" deal is incredible news. Hope we can give him a really nice deal that keeps him here for a long, long time.
The White Sox over/under for 2023 wins is 83.5
in Pale Hose Talk
Posted
Yep, the Gio hate among the fan base is/was unwarranted. Much like I wanted to do with Rodon during his breakout season, I would try to "overpay" for him before his market develops. At that time I was hoping to something like 4/60 when people were scared of his arm. Basically give more when there are questions marks.
It's a bit harder with Gio as he's had success and as you point out last year wasn't really that bad. He also seems like the guy who wants to test the market and get back out west. (angels to me is the no-brainer). Last off-season's numbers also don't help. Bassitt at 3/60, Walker at 4/72, Eovaldi 2/34
I'd think he's in that range of AAV of $17-22mm. So we're talking a commitment of maybe 4/84mm? with an option for like $25mm on a 5th year based on some metrics? Based on the SP outlook/depth I think it's massively important to retain our pitching talent, otherwise the dream is even more dead than it is currently.