soxforlife05

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 17, 2017 -> 03:26 PM) I read a blog where the guy said a fair price would be Hansen, Fulmer, and Burger. To me, that seems about right. A top 100, a guy who struggled, and a relative unknown. What type of monetary value would you put on that package? If the Dodgers had the Sox farm system, would you take those 3 to take all of Matt Kemp's money? If so, the price to acquire Machado to get him to love the culture, with his salary, would approach $60 million. Would just outbidding everyone by $60 million work better, and keep the prospects? I I don't understand why we are making this idiotic decision. Just offer Machado the most amount of money next offseason.

Cash grab.

QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 01:29 AM) Can Baltimore put something in the trade language that says if he's traded to the Yankees, the White Sox then have to forfeit another pre-agreed upon player? Obviously players can sign contracts saying they can't be traded to another team, but can teams do the same type of arrangement? I’ve never heard of it being done and I don’t know why the Sox would agree to it. If they are that worried about the Yankees he should be a final hour transaction at the trade deadline

QUOTE (whitesoxwinner @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 10:35 PM) Is everybody down on Blake Rutherford? I still think he can be a stud. He was a young kid who struggled after getting traded. I still see a ton of talent/potential once he grows into his body. He probably needs 3-4 more years in the minors.

QUOTE (SonofaRoache @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 08:05 PM) You're not getting two top 10 prospects and Devers in that type of deal in 2017. I'm pretty sure Kopech was not a top 10 prospect when he was moved. Moncada was 1, Kopech was top 25 and Devers was around 50-75 range if I recall. Devers and Kopech were both in A ball prior to that offseason of the trade.

QUOTE (Scoots @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 07:56 PM) Eh, not really sure his arm is of any concern any more. I think he has shown that his perceived "risky" delivery works for him. He hasn't hit the D.L. at all. I think the hesitancy with Sale was his tendency to get worse as the season progresses, which is exactly what happened last year and into the playoffs. All it takes is one pitch to overload tendons/tissues/etc and cause an injury. There doesn't have to be an injury history. He may prove to be a freak of nature but with that delivery I see him eventually suffering an injury and never being the same guy. It could happen any time. Not that I'm hoping he gets hurt to justify moving him but he will end up being a historical anomaly if he goes another 3-4 years injury free.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 07:23 PM) ChrisnfreakingSale should have gotten at least 3 real prospects, we got two. Face it, DD hoodwinked RH when he added Diaz and Basabe. It's over, who cares. I was just sticking up for Balta. I wanted Devers to make it Moncada, Kopech, Devers but in hindsight that's actually a ton. Would've been nice to get a better player to round out the deal but teams are always going to be hesitant with Sale's perceived arm risk.

They don't have a choice. He's a rental whose value is reduced because it's pretty much the consensus with 95% of people on here he's testing free agency. Pretty sure everyone else knows that too. He actually might have more value at the trade deadline than he does this offseason.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 07:25 PM) Right now, Cease, Dunning, Fulmer...those guys aren't game changers. They aren't going to make the Orioles Not be mediocre at best. So,e team will eventually give you a top prospect for him. I am actually amazed no team seems to have offered that yet if the new reports are true. I'm sure the Yankees have the best offer but they won't move him there.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 07:18 PM) Yeah how many players get this close to free agency and then blow it off? It would be like training for a year to run the marathon and quitting 50 yards from the finish. Completely agree with you. Which is why I don't understand why we are interested unless we get a window to complete an extension before any trade is finalized. Maybe they have intel that he would sign a deal that met his asking price.

I thought more about this and I think I see what Hahn is trying to do now when he's talking about taking risk. It's probably Fulmer and Cease/Dunning thinking that they can recoup at least half that up to the equivalent amount of value at the trade deadline if they can't extend him. Meanwhile they get 6 months or so to try to get him to sign an extension. It's basically a free call option. And if they can't sign him before the trade deadline they now know they have to pursue a different path in the next offseason. As long as our best prospects aren't involved I don't see much problem with it if this is how he is looking at it. To be clear I don't think they will be able to extend him but you never know. Orioles have to get something for him since he will be gone either way. If they are that worried about us flipping him to the Yanks they should hold onto him until the trade deadline.

QUOTE (bighurt574 @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 06:56 PM) Not that I'm all that attached to any of them, but Avi, Cease, and Fulmer seems like a steep price for one year of Machado at around $17M (projected arbitration salary). I wouldn't include Avi if we don't get a window that allows the completion of the deal to be contingent on extending Machado. I think we could recoup at least half of the value of Fulmer and Cease/Dunning at the deadline if we can't sign him before then. Worth the risk? Maybe. Still don't think we'd be able to sign him before then.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 06:47 PM) Screw the promise, no reason to lose a possible mid season trade partner Agreed. If they don't want the chance the sox or another team could flip him at the deadline they should hold on to him until he becomes a FA

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 03:07 AM) I don't know man . I mean I agree with the better defense and improved speed/running and with some degree of luck hitting too. But .330 ? Why did all the luck all of a sudden show up in 1 season ? IF you want to say he was a lucky hitter so be it, but if you are going to do that then maybe say luck was half of it and the other half was he actually improved as a hitter because he finally decided to become serious about conditioning and quite possibly matured as a hitter . Even the flawed process improved . Maybe didn't show up in walk totals but he hit lot better within the strike zone and his K's decreased so he obviously did a lot right. I'm not against keeping Avi but definitely wait to sign him until end of next season. Not a believer yet. Hope he proves me wrong. If he doesn't fit into the team's plans he won't be hard to trade then either. I'd only sell high this offseason if we aren't giving him away for whatever we can get.

QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 04:11 AM) I keep thinking Gio and Fulmer, or Gio and Dunning in my head, but even that would make me very cautious until we extend Manny. Don't give up Gio. Please no. Big big mistake. Gotta be some combo of Fulmer, Cease and Dunning and he has to be signed as a contingency to complete it. No Hansen, Giolito, or Kopech in this deal. Not for a rental we could sign next year. Don't budge Hahn.

QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 03:58 AM) You guys.....I'm so scared. Orioles fans need to put down the crack pipe. Saying they're getting Kopech and Giolito lmao. More like Fulmer and Cease or Dunning with a long term deal with Machado agreed to as a contingency to complete it. Although I don't like Machado at all on a long term deal. But I'd give it a chance.

Lol I am probably gonna get permabanned if we give up good talent without signing him as a contingent requirement for completing the deal. So was nice discussing with you all over the last year or two.

QUOTE (Real @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 03:33 AM) When the kind of money that machado is looking at next year is on the table, players will go to Miami to play, they don't give a rat's ass about markets So if he's only about the money why are we giving up good talent for him when he's just a rental who will test the market anyway? Then its an ownership problem. And this team will never win a world series unless they have another miraculous season like 05 until JR is gone and we get a real owner.

QUOTE (SonofaRoache @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 03:27 AM) The Orioles know they can't re-sign him. His character isn't the reason. If you all want to go all in with our prospects expect to become the Twins of contending. Good enough to win bad divisions but never a real contender. You have to acquire elite talent if you want to win consistently. What you're saying doesn't even make any sense. Are you trying to say free agents don't want to play baseball in Chicago? If so that is the fault of ownership. This is not a small market. It's one of the top 3 markets in the USA. For endorsements, publicity, there's no reason a player wouldn't want to come here besides the ownership commitment to the team.

QUOTE (SonofaRoache @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 03:15 AM) That trade happened in 2014 and I don't think Hahn was making those types of decisions at that point. Kenny's history shows that's his type of deal. 30 year old mediocre player. Machado is young and elite. Machado is a headcase/dbag with an attitude problem who has tools but is a poor leader. With the team's new focus on character guys what is so appealing about bringing him in as a rental when some are suggesting we give up real prospects and players on the roster with high upside? This is not the guy to build a team around and the Orioles know it. What has Machado ever won? What big playoff games has he won? Big playoff hits? .174 hitter in 27 playoff AB's. .125 hitter in the one ALDS appearance. Hard pass. Sounds like another Cutler to me.

QUOTE (SonofaRoache @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 03:12 AM) A lot of the posters said they weren't fans of the Shark trade in that thread. I don't know why you all keep saying everyone here wanted that deal. And again, he sucked, so there was no point in making the trade. In the NL/pitcher parks his ERA prior to the trade was 3.81 4.34 3.14 Good pitcher but nothing special there. Certainly not worth an extension either when you factor in AL and our park. Really? I saw a lot that did like it. Only because they felt we didn't give up much because of where prospects were ranked. But Oakland was smarter than that.

QUOTE (SonofaRoache @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 02:59 AM) That Shark trade smells like Kenny. A vet pitcher who was brought in to go for it. Lol I predicted you would say this 30 minutes ago. All the bad trades are KW's fault, all the good trades are Hahn's. You probably think the Shields trade was KW too right?

QUOTE (SonofaRoache @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 02:29 AM) This type of thinking is what puts teams like the Twins behind the Yankees, Red Sox, etc every year. You have to gain any advantage you can over the big boys. Remember, there is no promise we can build a team better than Houston, LAA, Yankees, Red Sox, or the Indians. That's 5 teams we have to worry about the next 5-7 years, and even with our crop of prospects, we aren't at that level. You weren’t around for the Shark deal where everyone who was later proven wrong made the same arguments you are making now.

QUOTE (SonofaRoache @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 02:26 AM) .Either way, I think Hahn knows what he is doing and I have no reason to doubt him after these past 12 months. What have the White Sox won with Hahn as GM? 1 division title? No playoff wins? i don’t even remember the year Hahn took over. The Shark and Shields deals don’t bother you? Or you gonna say KW did those because they were bad trades lol

QUOTE (SonofaRoache @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 02:15 AM) How are we blowing up our rebuild? Moncada, Kopech, Lopez, Fulmer, Rodon, Jimenez, Robert, Cease, Hansen, Burger, Collins, Rutherford, Burdi, Dunning, and 4th pick would mostly all be here. We don’t need him this year and we don’t need to trade young players to sign him. He’s testing FA. If you need him that bad have the front office start preparing their pitch today. He will be the Jay Cutler of the White Sox.