soxforlife05

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 15, 2017 -> 01:15 PM) Tell me if I'm reading the people wrong. The naysayers usually start their posts with the caveat "I love what Avi did this year or I love Avi, but ..." The majority opinion is don't sign Avi for more years; for gawd sakes don't give him a lot of money. We are Sox fans. We don't want to pay our own. We don't respect our own (veteran players). We love prospects and we LOVE low payrolls. That's how I read this thread. It's America, feel free to tell me I'm full of bleep. Read Lillian's posts and read the responses. Very few want to pay Avi/keep Avi around once he needs more money. It's prospects we want, baby. Lilian, thanks for trying and your great posts! Dude for the millionth time, what is the point in potentially crippling the rebuild before it gets off the ground extending a guy who looked like a DFA candidate before this year when its not motivated by existing payroll constraints? This is not 2014 where we had a full roster in place with very little budget to work with. We don't need to make risky hail mary signings like this anymore. Let him prove himself over more seasons and if he deserves it he will get paid. The end.

QUOTE (bmags @ Sep 15, 2017 -> 10:44 AM) I think we got too used to having every player locked up for 5 years. Again, just let him play out. If he's really this good, we'll have money to sign him. Exactly my point. Thank you. No, he will not be "too expensive". We will have no significant payroll commitments in place. In fact we will better be able to assess what kind of other OF's we have in the pipeline in our system to better evaluate the risk reward with extending him.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Sep 15, 2017 -> 05:38 AM) OK, that is where we really disagree. I would not accept a top 50 prospect for Avi. Blake Rutherford is a #42 ranked prospect, by MLB Pipeline and I certainly would not take someone like him, for Avi. Maybe a top 10 prospect, depending upon the tools. but not some guy who is ranked #40 or 50. May I ask, how do you know what the interest is and what the speculated price might be? Again, you are getting way too caught up in a guy a year out of high school's stats. Those guys are very inconsistent until they get acclimated to professional ball. They look at the tools and projectability for those rankings not minor league stats. We have had one team so far rumored to be interested. How many teams were in on Sale? I think it was well into double digits. Quintana had probably half as many. If there is a lot of interest in a player via trade it gets national attention because the team moving the player wants to drive up the ask and make teams bid against each other.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Sep 15, 2017 -> 06:22 AM) That is precisely my point, regarding prospects. They are prone to having diminished expectations. A top prospect one day and a total bust, the next. There is risk with every player, but I'd rather put my money on a guy who has proven it, to some degree, which Avi certainly has, than a guy who has never faced a Big League pitcher. Blake is literally a kid a year removed from high school. Are you going to give him the same 7-8 years to develop like Avi has been given unquestionably?

QUOTE (Lillian @ Sep 15, 2017 -> 04:58 AM) Alright, so please provide an example, of what you would consider the "right price" for Avi, in a trade. That would give us something to discuss. It is worth noting that Avi is not really fairly considered a "veteran who came out of nowhere". This was his age 26 season, and he had been very highly regarded, as a young prospect. It appears to be more the case that he has finally begun to realize expectations. A top 50 prospect for starters. I don't even know what teams would want Avi so it's kind of pointless to discuss at this point. The rumored interest has been pretty minimal. Edit: Only thing that might sway me with signing him now is a major hometown discount (a la Buehrle or Quintana). He kind of does owe it to the Sox who gave him more chances than I've seen any team give a player EVER.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Sep 15, 2017 -> 04:47 AM) No, I am not suggesting that. Since we don't know what kind of contract, an extension would require, I was simply stating that I wouldn't advocate paying him the kind of money that Machado might receive, which could be 10 years, at $30 Million per season, or more. However, if it is something like 6 years, at $17 to $18 million, that seems very reasonable, in today's market for a guy, who is just beginning his prime. A 6 year deal would cover him from age 27 through 32. I would rather pay him an extra 7-8 mill a season knowing he is for real 2-3 seasons from now than extending him now and ending up with an albatross contract right as the rebuild is getting started. No need for the GM to try to be a hero extending relative unknowns on big money deals with a poor body of work. We don't need hail mary type signings we would make prior to blowing up the team when we had payroll constraints in place already.

QUOTE (ecupittfan @ Sep 14, 2017 -> 08:49 PM) You mean you dont want to trade a 26 y.o. All Star OF going into the prime of their career for a career .250 minor league hitter who has 9 MLB hits so far and is only 3 years younger. Not to mention Avi is a good teammate. Lets put it into perspective. Today Avi got 55% of the total hits that Kelly has in his MLB career. Seems like a really good trade idea. What we need to do is give Avi a decent 4-5 year deal and wrap him up for the prime of his career. Extending Avi now would be the biggest mistake of this rebuild so far

QUOTE (Lillian @ Sep 14, 2017 -> 07:45 PM) How many top 50 position player prospects does it take to produce one guy, who ever puts up a year like the one Avi is having? Look, I love these young prospects and the whole rebuild, as much as anyone, but at some point, it seems like you have to appreciate the rare successes and try to hang on to them. Avi is a young guy, and has many years of his prime before him. I hope that they extend him and lock him up for the next 5 or 6 years, to take him through his prime. He and Abreu, who could ultimately move to DH, could comprise half of the middle of the order, for the upcoming window of contention, beginning in 2019. I want both of them on that roster. I hope that Moncada becomes a Tim Raines, Ricky Henderson type lead off guy. If you plug Jimenez into the middle of the order and add one big left handed bat, you have the run production needed to win a lot of games. Beyond the production, there are a also few intangibles that come with keeping guys like Jose and Avi. Jose is a terrific leader and club house guy. Both could provide some important veteran presence, on what will be a very young team. There is also something about the camaraderie of maintaining a core of guys, and not turning over the entire roster. It is also difficult to build fan loyalty to a revolving door of prospects. I just don't think that the success rate of prospects is high enough to trade away every prospect that works out, for the hope and "promise" of more and more prospects It doesn't matter what he did this year. The contract would be paying for his performance over the next 4-5 years not this year. Too many mistakes to count have been made by teams who extend veterans who come out of nowhere with career years like this. No need to cripple the rebuild before it even gets off the ground. If you are going to keep him around make him prove it for another few seasons. If paying players who prove they deserve the money with a long term track record (2-3 seasons) is such a big issue for this club, they don't deserve to be a contender. His body of work is still nothing spectacular and quite mediocre. If another team falls in love with his one good year and we can move him for a good enough return, so be it. No one is saying give him away, but if a team pursues him and is willing to give up the right price, he's gone in my mind.

QUOTE (Tony @ Sep 14, 2017 -> 08:21 PM) 1. I don't think the decision to give him an extension needs to be made in December. It can be made in June of 2018 if necessary. And if you've come to the decision you DO want to sign him to an extension in June of 2018, that ideally would tell us he is playing like the 2017 version of Avi, not the 2015 version. 2. I'm still not convinced his value is enough for the Sox to move him for value. Everyone in the trade Avi crowd seems to be saying the same thing..."SELL HIGH! HE WON'T COME CLOSE TO THESE NUMBERS AGAIN!!" If that's the case, why would any GM offer anything of value? The two statements totally contradict themselves. 3. The biggest problem I have is the idea he doesn't fit with the core. If you believe this isn't Avi and next year he's going to bat .255, that's one thing. I'm not going to be able to change your mind. But if you believe he can duplicate this type of season, but are just worried about how he fits with the "core", I have a major issue with that. 1. No need to prematurely give him an extension. We already saw it was a mistake with Anderson. 2. Because the other GM thinks he will be as good or better in the future? That's the reason any trade gets done. We sold high on Eaton. Why would a GM offer anything of value for him according to your logic? Trades can be a win win for both sides too.

QUOTE (cjgalloway @ Sep 14, 2017 -> 03:39 PM) Because many see STL as a fit for Avi. Give me Carson Kelly and a Hot N' Ready for Avi and I'd be stoked.. Mostly about the pizza though I think Carson Kelly is doable. Hasn't set the world on fire with his call up.

Glad he's doing well to finish the year because now we know he'll bring back a good player if he gets moved. As always I still recommend the sell high this offseason with Avi

Cubs/Sox games over a weekend during football season? Why?

Man this rotation is gonna be beastly in a few years. Like the A's back when they had Zito/Hudson/Mulder or 90's Braves

Another great start for Giolito. Boy remember when people were freaking out about his 5-6 ERA in AAA a matter of months ago?

Leave it to the Chicago teams to let the other teams out tank them. Obvious tankage by SF today. Lame as hell.

This team can't do anything right. We can't even lose the right games? Always get out tanked by the smarter teams. Not a chance Fulmer is anywhere near this good.

Lose the next 2 and we should get a top 2 pick

Please lose the next 2

He'll be better than Tim Anderson at the plate at a bare minimum. He's not this bad. Although Devers is looking like he would've been the best get like I originally thought.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Sep 8, 2017 -> 10:31 AM) This series is not going to result in a sweep, one way or the other. Shields and Fulmer are pretty bad. Giolito has been good but he's a rookie so who knows what we get

Need to lose 2 out of 3 to Giants, preferably get swept to have a realistic shot at moving up

Covey to the rescue

QUOTE (Soha @ Sep 3, 2017 -> 09:29 AM) If the Sox are trying to move him, that's going to be a red flag to any team interested in him. Because he's young and should be exactly what they want moving towards the future, no? I would try to re-sign him. See if he'll bite on a 5 year deal for like 70 mil? I love the idea of an outfield a few years from now of Eloy in LF, Robert in CF and Avi in RF. That's some serious potential hitting. We took other teams red flags in Giolito and Moncada. What's your point? Teams have guys rated differently. Kind of like SD who had Shields rated as a radioactive gas can who gives up home runs to Bartolo Colon but the White Sox saw a top of the rotation starter.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Sep 3, 2017 -> 07:08 PM) Can we have a Tatis Jr sticky so every time he's brought up we can just link the poster to that thread? Are you saying I don't know who he is? I was probably the biggest vocal opponent to that trade although I certainly wasn't the only one. Weird how threads disappear on this site so you can't see anyone's track record of being right or wrong. Was right about Devers being the top guy to get from Boston, Delmonico being biggest sleeper before the season, Eaton trade being amazing, etc

The good thing is if we sell high this offseason we get more than if we traded him at the deadline. We could actually get a really nice player back now. I'm still not sold. I do hope we move him for a high upside bat or two. A guy like Tatis Jr would fit the bill....oh wait.........