I think it's time to take Jose off the banner

[ron883]

I think it's time, folks. Jose has been a complete and utter disappointment this year. .748 OPS is unacceptable from him. His OPS has taken a .100 point dip each year since his rookie year. Like I previously predicted, Jose has been figured out IMO. You throw him junk outside and he can't resist. Jose Quintana is much more deserving of being on the banner.

[caulfield12]

I would go with Q, Sale, Eaton and Anderson...Frazier's hard to argue for, because of his batting average and "decent" OPS.

[bmags]

Bannertalk.com

[southsider2k5]

I move that anyone who thinks the banner should be changed, should actually take the time to design a new banner first.

[Jose Abreu]

Oh god, this guy again, the one who was rooting for Abreu's demise and is now starting ANOTHER anti-Abreu thread... dude, look at his stats for the past month and then tell me he's been "figured out".

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

He could put together a kick ass 2nd half . Then what, change it back ? Fact is he was only one of 2 players with 30 HR's and 100 RBI the past 2 seasons. 30 HR's might be a long shot this year but 100 RBI is still reachable.

[greg775]

His advanced stat numbers aren't that bad. His tradition stat numbers .266 11 HR, 52RBI aren't the worst ever, either. He's still a keeper IMO.

[Y2Jimmy0]

His advanced stat numbers aren't that bad. His tradition stat numbers .266 11 HR, 52RBI aren't the worst ever, either. He's still a keeper IMO.

 

 

Which advanced stats aren't that bad?

[the_Xsport]

I think it's time, folks. Jose has been a complete and utter disappointment this year. .748 OPS is unacceptable from him. His OPS has taken a .100 point dip each year since his rookie year. Like I previously predicted, Jose has been figured out IMO. You throw him junk outside and he can't resist. Jose Quintana is much more deserving of being on the banner.

 

Thank you ron883, you have encouraged me to come out of the woodwork and write my first Soxtalk comment. "You throw him junk outside and he can't resist." Did you know Jose Abreu's contact% on pitches outside of the zone is 62.4%. In 2014 it was 58.7%. He's also swinging at outside pitches in line with what he's done since coming stateside. In fact, almost everything about Abreu is almost a photocopy across the board. His batted ball data is relatively the same, as are his line drive, fly ball, and ground ball rates. He's hitting the ball to all fields still. His strikeout rate is actually the lowest of his career.

 

Now, I'll concede that the eye test says Abreu has been a different guy, and the counting stats tend to agree. The truth is that earlier in the year pitchers weren't getting him to swing at junk on the outside, but they were jamming him inside. Not all that different from how he's been attacked since his arrival. The true disparity was that he wasn't barreling up balls on the outer third or even center cut, locations where he's made him money in the past.

 

Guess what, the quality of the contact has gotten a lot better since early June. Abreu was always a guy that could look awful on two pitches and then rope a gap double on the next. He's a very talented hitter, see him taking a 102 MPH pitch down low back up the middle against Cabrera the other day as a prime example. Not many guys can do that. Abreu hit .306/.355/.531 (.885 OPS) in June and appears to be back to his old self.

 

If you're so inclined to double his stats, an imperfect practice to be sure, he's looking at 22 HR, 38 2B, and 104 RBI. Not exactly something I'd complain about. I don't think it's crazy that he'll hit 15 or more bombs in the 2nd half and get closer to that 30/100 mark again. I'm glad you predicted this awful demise. Please double down on your prediction and place it on your own banner. We'll see if you want to hang it up after the season.

 

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Thank you ron883, you have encouraged me to come out of the woodwork and write my first Soxtalk comment. "You throw him junk outside and he can't resist." Did you know Jose Abreu's contact% on pitches outside of the zone is 62.4%. In 2014 it was 58.7%. He's also swinging at outside pitches in line with what he's done since coming stateside. In fact, almost everything about Abreu is almost a photocopy across the board. His batted ball data is relatively the same, as are his line drive, fly ball, and ground ball rates. He's hitting the ball to all fields still. His strikeout rate is actually the lowest of his career.

 

Now, I'll concede that the eye test says Abreu has been a different guy, and the counting stats tend to agree. The truth is that earlier in the year pitchers weren't getting him to swing at junk on the outside, but they were jamming him inside. Not all that different from how he's been attacked since his arrival. The true disparity was that he wasn't barreling up balls on the outer third or even center cut, locations where he's made him money in the past.

 

Guess what, the quality of the contact has gotten a lot better since early June. Abreu was always a guy that could look awful on two pitches and then rope a gap double on the next. He's a very talented hitter, see him taking a 102 MPH pitch down low back up the middle against Cabrera the other day as a prime example. Not many guys can do that. Abreu hit .306/.355/.531 (.885 OPS) in June and appears to be back to his old self.

 

If you're so inclined to double his stats, an imperfect practice to be sure, he's looking at 22 HR, 38 2B, and 104 RBI. Not exactly something I'd complain about. I don't think it's crazy that he'll hit 15 or more bombs in the 2nd half and get closer to that 30/100 mark again. I'm glad you predicted this awful demise. Please double down on your prediction and place it on your own banner. We'll see if you want to hang it up after the season.

 

Nice post. Glad you took the time to post. The 2nd half is always shorter than the 1st half since we are 88 games in , we have 74 left . So doubling down on stats ( which I know you said is imperfect) doesn't work. Would be really nice to see him increase his extra base hits.

 

A simple way I look at things is what percentage of his total hits are for extra bases , then do the same thing with HR's. 2014 approx. 41.5% of his hits were for extra bases, 2015 37.5% and this year 34.5%.

 

HR percentage of total hits 2014 20.5, 2015 16.8 ,and this year 12.2 . All this has led to lower SLG % , OPS and OPS+ .As you said he has been trending up and he needs to keep doing so especially in HR totals. If Anderson and Eaton continue to be productive thoseextra base hits become more crucial especially the HR's. I know Melky has done a fine job of driving home runs but Robin needs to get Frazier back in the cleanup spot so his HR's can also be more productive.

 

Seems strange to leave Melky batting 4th and Frazier 5th almost at the exact same time Anderson arrived.

[Steve9347]

Bannertalk.com

haha

[LittleHurt05]

I think it's time, folks. Jose has been a complete and utter disappointment this year. .748 OPS is unacceptable from him. His OPS has taken a .100 point dip each year since his rookie year. Like I previously predicted, Jose has been figured out IMO. You throw him junk outside and he can't resist. Jose Quintana is much more deserving of being on the banner.

 

Then go ahead and make a new one, no one is stopping you.

[Dick Allen]

This guy is a troll.

[shysocks]

I move that anyone who thinks the banner should be changed, should actually take the time to design a new banner first.

+1

[Quin]

Nah

[lostfan]

s*** thread, lock+ban, kthxbai

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

I move that anyone who thinks the banner should be changed, should actually take the time to design a new banner first.

Sounds like a job for MS Paint and a bowl of weed on a rainy day.

[southsider2k5]

s*** thread, lock+ban, kthxbai

 

 

I like this new guy. Someone should make him a moderator.

[Greg Hibbard]

People are really lynching Jose f***ing Abreu for 86 games in which he needed to literally hit just 4 more home runs to be at basically career numbers?

 

If you don't understand things like variance and sample size please stop talking about anything, and if you aren't willing to give an all-star caliber first baseman with two EXCELLENT seasons a single mediocre half-season, JFC - baseball isn't the sport you should be following

Edited July 11, 2016 by Greg Hibbard

[Quin]

People are really lynching Jose f***ing Abreu for 86 games in which he needed to literally hit just 4 more home runs to be at basically career numbers?

 

If you don't understand things like variance and sample size please stop talking about anything, and if you aren't willing to give an all-star caliber first baseman with two EXCELLENT seasons a single mediocre half-season, JFC - baseball isn't the sport you should be following

 

Because Ron883 gets off on Abreu not doing well.

[harkness99]

Abreu has appeared to be declining.. the basic numbers are straight forward.

 

BUT its more than a little early to be making any conclusions on him.

 

He still has a lot of career to go... after this season is over we can assess more reasonably.

 

He is still driving in runs... which to me is the most important stat for him.

Edited July 11, 2016 by harkness

[Dick Allen]

.197/.267/.300

 

Paul Konerko's first half in 2003.

 

I know it's important to some to be the first to point out a guy sucks and will always suck. As much as people love to write thinking the Sox can make the playoffs is fools errand or fools gold, that is exactly what it is when you write off Jose Abreu.

[Jose Abreu]

Abreu has appeared to be declining.. the basic numbers are straight forward.

 

BUT its more than a little early to be making any conclusions on him.

 

He still has a lot of career to go... after this season is over we can assess more reasonably.

 

He is still driving in runs... which to me is the most important stat for him.

Exactly, and his stats over the last month are fantastic- he's back.

 

You have to be a troll when 100% of the threads you start are about Abreu being "figured out".

[FT35]

Albert Belle 1998 2nd half:

 

282 ABs

109 Hits

.387 AVE

31 HR

86 RBI

61 R

58 XBH

.451 OBP

.816 SLG

1.267 OPS

 

However he only stole 4 bases, so that tells me the catchers had him figured out. Hence--the reason why he's not on the banner.

 

 

[Y2Jimmy0]

It's fair to give Jose more time but the bottom line is he hasn't been good enough. With the way this team is built, he needs to be a lot better to give them a chance.