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Sox Looking for CFers

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 14, 2016 -> 01:59 PM)
Well he's not a good enough performer that you'd unpack Fulmer for him, normally you might think about a guy in the ~5 range in a solid system I'd guess but none of those guys are tradeable for the Sox since they were all just drafted.

 

Maybe you could put together some package of 2-3 guys that the Rockies like who are lower ranked?

 

I see absolutely zero reason why the Rox would trade Blackmon for anything short of Fulmer or Anderson (obviously isn't getting traded). I doubt an Adams, Engel/May, Gurrero type package would be enough to trade a vastly underrated offensive player under control for 2.5 years.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 14, 2016 -> 01:59 PM)
Well he's not a good enough performer that you'd unpack Fulmer for him, normally you might think about a guy in the ~5 range in a solid system I'd guess but none of those guys are tradeable for the Sox since they were all just drafted.

 

Maybe you could put together some package of 2-3 guys that the Rockies like who are lower ranked?

 

Thought you could trade drafted players right away or do you have to wait until the off season?

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QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jul 14, 2016 -> 02:24 PM)
Thought you could trade drafted players right away or do you have to wait until the off season?

 

With the change in rules last year, you can't trade a draftee until after the World Series.

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QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jul 14, 2016 -> 03:23 PM)
I see absolutely zero reason why the Rox would trade Blackmon for anything short of Fulmer or Anderson (obviously isn't getting traded). I doubt an Adams, Engel/May, Gurrero type package would be enough to trade a vastly underrated offensive player under control for 2.5 years.

Well, for me if I'm unpacking Fulmer I want a bigger bang for my buck player. Solid, underrated, and under team control for 2.5 years is good but with the limited assets this team has to move I'd be disappointed in that return. Basically ask yourself this - does Fulmer straight up for Blackmon make this team the strongest contender for the Wild Card this year and put them in a position to make a run at Cleveland? If your answer is no, then that's not a good use of Fulmer. The multiple years of control is nice...but they'll be needing to find another pitcher to control for multiple years if they move him so that is a major downside come next offseason.

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To me this is how I see it

 

Top option: Blackmon- As Balta is referring to it'll probably take Fulmer.

 

Cheap option: Atleast in terms of prospects is going to be Melvin Upton. Padres will eat his salary and he's signed through next year as well. I cant believe i'm advocating for him right now but this is my favorite option. He's playing very good baseball right now.

Edited by Baron

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 14, 2016 -> 02:40 PM)
Well, for me if I'm unpacking Fulmer I want a bigger bang for my buck player. Solid, underrated, and under team control for 2.5 years is good but with the limited assets this team has to move I'd be disappointed in that return. Basically ask yourself this - does Fulmer straight up for Blackmon make this team the strongest contender for the Wild Card this year and put them in a position to make a run at Cleveland? If your answer is no, then that's not a good use of Fulmer. The multiple years of control is nice...but they'll be needing to find another pitcher to control for multiple years if they move him so that is a major downside come next offseason.

 

Don't get me wrong, I want the Sox to hold onto Fulmer, but when he's legitimately your only blue chip trade prospect (not including guys on the 25 man), its going to be tough to get an elite offensive player without giving him up.

 

Now, is Blackmon elite? Not really, but he's a very, very good ballplayer. I am not endorsing a Fulmer-Blackmon swap, only stating that I don't see the Rox doing it for less. Hope I am wrong there.

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QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jul 14, 2016 -> 04:03 PM)
Don't get me wrong, I want the Sox to hold onto Fulmer, but when he's legitimately your only blue chip trade prospect (not including guys on the 25 man), its going to be tough to get an elite offensive player without giving him up.

 

Now, is Blackmon elite? Not really, but he's a very, very good ballplayer. I am not endorsing a Fulmer-Blackmon swap, only stating that I don't see the Rox doing it for less. Hope I am wrong there.

And there's the problem. Blackmon is useful and particularly valuable since he has more than 1 year of control, but he's not elite and if the White Sox want to make a big push for the playoffs it's hard to believe "good" does it when everyone they're competing with is in a position to add good players also.

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It would be nice to trade some middle infield depth for a young OF, but they'll only get utility infielder value for it (i.e. extreme little value) because they don't play Easily could have had Saladino start the year instead of the "proven veteran" to get more insight (and equal production) to minimize the chances of Hahn devaluing his own players again.

In the trade for Samardizja and likely for Frazier, the Sox were able to recover some of Rick Hahn's devaluation via the draft pick; doubt it happens this time.

Edited by GreenSox

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Most expensive to acquire but biggest impacts

 

Blackmon, Brett Gardner, Inciarte, Billy Hamilton...can probably add Reddick for RF, Eaton back to CF to that list, along with Bruce and Beltran as well here

 

As far as Hamilton goes, Brennaman and Jeff Brantley were trying to sell him as the "most exciting player in baseball" and as having taken a step forward this year, so not sure he's going to be as cheap as many are hoping

 

Somewhat intriguing / more likely

 

Melvin Upton, Peter Bourjos (expiring deal, won't get QO), Michael Taylor, Rusney Castillo (depends on how much Red Sox are willing to eat and how the White Sox value him and at which OF position...also uncertain if DD would trade him to an AL contender but essentially he's Cherington's cross to bear, so maybe)

 

 

Not surprised entirely by...

 

Alejandro DeAza (lol), Chase D'Arnaud (Braves), Jon Jay (injured right now, Sox should know Padres well by now after Shields trade), Nori Aoki (demoted in Seattle but they might not want to help the White Sox as one of their WC competitors), Coco Crisp, Jake Marisnick (see Aoki)

Edited by caulfield12

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QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jul 14, 2016 -> 02:50 PM)
Give me the kid from TB Keirmeyer (however you spell it).

Edit: Kevin Kiermaier

 

 

Too expensive to acquire...they're going to expect a 3.5-4 WAR equivalent, even though he's been injured this year and hasn't quite been up to his usual standards.

 

More likely they'll trade Odorizzi and wait to be bowled away by any Longoria offers...as well as some of their bullpen pieces.

 

Moore, Smyly and Archer all are "sell lows" which they probably have to avoid trading at the July deadline.

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I'll be pissed if we're giving up Fulmer for Blackmon. Just doesn't do much for me. I know he doesn't play center but is Blackmon a better option than Reddick? If I'm moving Fulmer, I want an elite bat. Or more impactful than Blackmon.

Edited by SouthSideSale

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QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jul 14, 2016 -> 02:41 PM)
Blackmon's career OPS at Coors:

.894

 

Away from Coors:

.678

 

This year his OPS away from Coors is 808 though.

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I think the larger takeaway is Austin Jackson is going to be out longer than they thought. If they thought Jackson was coming back in the 6-8 week timetable, I don't think they are looking for a centerfielder.

 

Consider The Bust In FA:

Jackson ( no fault of White Sox injuries happen)

Rollins

Latos

 

That is probably 10 million dollars that could have gone to a useful player.

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QUOTE (kwill @ Jul 14, 2016 -> 06:43 PM)
I think the larger takeaway is Austin Jackson is going to be out longer than they thought. If they thought Jackson was coming back in the 6-8 week timetable, I don't think they are looking for a centerfielder.

 

Consider The Bust In FA:

Jackson ( no fault of White Sox injuries happen)

Rollins

Latos

 

That is probably 10 million dollars that could have gone to a useful player.

 

Those were all low risk high reward signings. I didn't think Latos would be that good to begin with so we got our use out of him. Rollins held down the fort for Anderson til he was ready. Jackson was fine until he got hurt. He is what he is but he's still replaceable when healthy.

 

Those signings aren't complete busts because of what they were to begin with.

 

 

 

 

The issue was not going all out for Cespedes after Gordon stayed in KC.

Edited by SouthSideSale

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QUOTE (kwill @ Jul 14, 2016 -> 06:43 PM)
I think the larger takeaway is Austin Jackson is going to be out longer than they thought. If they thought Jackson was coming back in the 6-8 week timetable, I don't think they are looking for a centerfielder.

 

Consider The Bust In FA:

Jackson ( no fault of White Sox injuries happen)

Rollins

Latos

 

That is probably 10 million dollars that could have gone to a useful player.

 

Austin Jackson hasn't been good enough that a replacement couldn't improve CF a whole lot if you got the right guy.

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QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jul 14, 2016 -> 06:36 PM)
I'll be pissed if we're giving up Fulmer for Blackmon. Just doesn't do much for me. I know he doesn't play center but is Blackmon a better option than Reddick? If I'm moving Fulmer, I want an elite bat. Or more impactful than Blackmon.

 

He's better than you're giving him credit for.

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As Balta pointed out, let's say you do have Blackmon.

 

You have to be better than Boston (already even stronger this week), Toronto (rising and will make a couple of moves at the deadline), Houston (a ton of prospects to trade from, just brought up Bregman for 3B)...

 

KC is going to get back Cain and Wade Davis again...and Seattle's in a position with the LAA out of it as well as the A's that they can make up some ground against those two bottom-feeding teams, not to mention they have a much better farm system and more revenue generation due to their tv contract and strengthening attendance to add to that team.

 

Detroit is expected to stand pat.

 

And you can't count out the Yankees surging and making last minute plays for players instead of deconstructing that roster by selling off Beltran, Chapman and 50% of their veterans.

 

 

 

 

So let's say they do trade Fulmer, and Blackmon actually beats the odds and produces in the AL and on the road at the same clip he's at with the Rockies.

 

 

In 2017, your rotation is Sale/Q/Rodon/Shields and Gonzalez AGAIN with who as your back-up plan or primary option if anyone goes down to injury?

 

Adams has taken a step back this year. Burdi's likely to be a reliever, although they MIGHT try him as a starter. Hansen still amounts to a project, although one with massive upside. It's probably some combination of Tyler Danish and Jordan Stephens. And whatever "dumpster diving" they can do to end up with guys like Latos and Gonzalez again...but that dumpster diving will be even more expensive with 1/5th the amount of talent on the FA market available this offseason. Unless Rodon pitches like a Cy Young candidate/demon....there's arguably more room for regression from Shields (based on his last 3-4 tightrope starts) and Gonzalez than there is upside out of Sale/Q to balance that out.

 

 

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QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jul 14, 2016 -> 06:53 PM)
He's better than you're giving him credit for.

I haven't looked at his numbers this season so is he worth Fulmer?

 

 

Everyone has an issue with Colorado hitters and rightfully so. I'm just not a fan of giving up Fulmer for him.

Edited by SouthSideSale

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QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jul 14, 2016 -> 06:54 PM)
I haven't looked at his numbers this season so is he worth Fulmer?

 

Probably. I wouldn't want to give up Fulmer, but I wouldn't lose my s*** if the Sox made that trade. I like Fulmer and all, but I don't see him as a future frontline guy really. I'd try like hell to make a package the Rox would take without him, but Blackmon is a very good player and probably worth 1 top 60 type prospect.

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QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jul 14, 2016 -> 05:53 PM)
He's better than you're giving him credit for.

 

 

The fact is, very few star Rockies players have kept up their numbers outside of Colorado over time.

 

Matt Holliday is one of the exceptions, but his success has mostly come in the NL with the Cardinals (as compared to the A's).

 

We'll find out soon enough with Morneau (2014 stud in Colorado)...and possibly CarGo/Blackmon on the move (but probably just one of the two).

 

Tulo with the Blue Jays (although he's also getting a bit older and has suffered so many injuries) would be yet another...going all the way back to the days of Larry Walker, Dante Bichette and Andres Big Cat Galarraga.

 

 

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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 14, 2016 -> 06:59 PM)
The fact is, very few star Rockies players have kept up their numbers outside of Colorado over time.

 

Matt Holliday is one of the exceptions, but his success has mostly come in the NL with the Cardinals (as compared to the A's).

 

We'll find out soon enough with Morneau (2014 stud in Colorado)...and possibly CarGo/Blackmon on the move (but probably just one of the two).

 

Tulo with the Blue Jays (although he's also getting a bit older and has suffered so many injuries) would be yet another...going all the way back to the days of Larry Walker, Dante Bichette and Andres Big Cat Galarraga.

But Morneau had success before going to Colorado.

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One thing's 100% for sure.

 

If Blackmon is acquired and flops, the whole "here we go again with an NL player struggling in the AL Central" will be heard every time another NL player is mentioned in connection with the Sox.

 

Samardzija

LaRoche

Dunn

Frazier (batting average-wise, let's see how his second half goes this year)

Shields (although the jury's still out on that one as well, and he was already sliding with KC in 2014)

You could even use the Cueto in KC vs. SF argument here as well...4.67 ERA vs. Cy Young winner out there

 

The TWO players we have plucked out of the NL to do well for us have both been essentially rookie+ players in Eaton/Carlos Quentin, not 5-7 year veterans in that league.

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