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Everyone points to Garcia, but it's Abreu's slide that's k

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"killing the Sox" -- headline was too long.

 

Here are Abreu's numbers:

 

Year Age Tm Lg G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS OPS+ TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB Pos Awards

2014 ★ 27 CHW AL 145 622 556 80 176 35 2 36 107 3 1 51 131 .317 .383 .581 .964 173 323 14 11 0 4 15

2015 28 CHW AL 154 668 613 88 178 34 3 30 101 0 0 39 140 .290 .347 .502 .850 135 308 16 15 0 1 11

2016 29 CHW AL 86 380 342 33 93 19 1 11 52 0 2 22 77 .272 .326 .430 .756 105 147 13 9 0 7 5

 

Here are Garcia's numbers:

 

2013 22 CHW AL 42 168 161 19 49 4 2 5 21 3 2 5 38 .304 .327 .447 .775 109 72 5 1 0 1 0 9/8

2014 23 CHW AL 46 190 172 19 42 8 0 7 29 4 1 14 44 .244 .305 .413 .718 105 71 5 2 0 2 1 9

2015 24 CHW AL 148 601 553 66 142 17 2 13 59 7 7 36 141 .257 .309 .365 .675 89 202 13 8 0 4 3 *9D

2016 25 CHW AL 71 276 250 31 58 8 1 5 28 2 2 22 70 .232 .301 .332 .633 74 83 7 3 0 1 0 D9/7

 

Abreu has gone from a .964 OPS his first year, to .756 this year, a drop of .208. His OPS+ has gone from 173 to 105.

 

Garcia went from a short-season high of .775 OPS in 168 ABs, to this year's .633, a drop of .142. His OPS+ went from 109 to 83.

 

I'm here to argue that what's killing the Sox more than anything is the lack of their "good" players producing. SSS had a post on Abreu today.

 

This is also a follow-up on my earlier thread about how the White Sox will not win until their players produce. That blamed more than Jose Abreu, who I'm singling out today.

 

The problem for me is that Avisail Garcia was never intended to carry the team. Sure, he's a hole in the lineup that the Sox should fill. But if the players the Sox counted on to carry the team were in fact producing at the level they have produced in the past, the Sox' record would be a lot better, and it would make even more sense to fill the hole caused by Garcia.

 

As it is, replacing Garcia will offer a slight bump up, as will finding a replacement CF, but the Sox will still founder because their CORE is NOT PRODUCING. Chris Sale is, but he's the exception. You can't win if your players can't at least play to the level you could reasonably expect based on past performance.

 

Right now, Jose Abreu is NOT a middle of the order hitter. And that's a HUGE problem.

Edited by VAfan

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QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Jul 14, 2016 -> 06:28 PM)
great post for any user but especially a mod. Seriously?

 

Yeah, I'm allowed to post this.

 

And also, the yawn was in response to Ron, because of course he jumped on this. His hate of Abreu is a SoxTalk meme at this point.

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Everybody knows this already but you're not going to replace Abreu. Just gotta wait for him to come around. That's why the focus is on players who are replaceable, I.e. Abreu.

 

That being said, I did notice the correlation between Abreu picking it up the last few series and the Sox winning 5 of the last 6 series.

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Jose has hurt the team but keep in mind he's still on pace for around 22 home runs and over 100 RBI's. That's not bad. Personally I'll take it.

 

Garcia isn't even producing minor league numbers that are worth a damn and he's still killing the team on the bases and at times in the field.

 

He's a bigger problem than Jose' in my opinion.

 

Mark

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Can it be tomorrow already please so that the Sox can come out guns blazing for another 23-10 run? They need to collectively kiss out asses and fire on all cylinders again.

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I don't blame it on any one player. It's been a combination of things. We knew Avi sucks. Abreu having a down year was the last thing we needed. Injuries to the bullpen didn't help. The back end of the rotation really hurt this team. The lineup hasn't been good either. So it's been a combination of all those things.

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Realistically he got off to a horrible start, and has trended back to his usual self over the last couple of months. Historically his worst two months with the White Sox are April and May. The last thing we need is another irrational panic about Abreu thread.

 

Here is his OPS by month this year:

 

April .657

May .711

June .885

July .807

 

OPS+ by month

 

April 82

May 94

June 131

July 114

 

Batting average by month

 

April .229

May .252

June .306

July .351

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QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Jul 14, 2016 -> 05:27 PM)
I'm sad about Jose. Honestly I think he's older than 28. He moves, looks and now hits like he's past 30. Kinda sucks.

 

Jose has been fairly disappointing since 2014, but he remains a very good hitter that is a tremendous bargain. He is paid like a league average player and is much better than that.

 

I hope this isn't the new Abreu and he's just in a funk, but even if it, Abreu isn't the problem.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 14, 2016 -> 06:50 PM)
Realistically he got off to a horrible start, and has trended back to his usual self over the last couple of months. Historically his worst two months with the White Sox are April and May. The last thing we need is another irrational panic about Abreu thread.

Here is his OPS by month this year:

 

April .657

May .711

June .885

July .807

 

OPS+ by month

 

April 82

May 94

June 131

July 114

 

Batting average by month

 

April .229

May .252

June .306

July .351

Thank you. :lol:

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QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 14, 2016 -> 05:39 PM)
Yeah, I'm allowed to post this.

 

And also, the yawn was in response to Ron, because of course he jumped on this. His hate of Abreu is a SoxTalk meme at this point.

You're better than that. Provide some substance.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 14, 2016 -> 06:50 PM)
Realistically he got off to a horrible start, and has trended back to his usual self over the last couple of months. Historically his worst two months with the White Sox are April and May. The last thing we need is another irrational panic about Abreu thread.

 

Here is his OPS by month this year:

 

April .657

May .711

June .885

July .807

 

OPS+ by month

 

April 82

May 94

June 131

July 114

 

Batting average by month

 

April .229

May .252

June .306

July .351

 

2014: .964 OPS - 173 OPS+ - .317 BA

2015: .850 OPS - 135 OPS+ - .290 BA

 

So he has yet to have a single month within .079 OPS of his entire 2014 and has had one month .005 OPS higher than his entire 2015.

 

His best month so far in OPS+ was 25% lower than his entire 2014 and slightly lower than his entire 2015.

 

His July BA has been great, but that's only 9 games and came with no power.

 

I think your post justified a lot of the reason for panic. He's still a good player but he needs to be much more than that for the Sox to contend.

 

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Statistically he's one of the worst 1b in baseball in all three fWAR categories. He just hasn't been a good player this year. He needs a big 2nd half for this team to have a prayer. I'm not concerned with Avi because he can and will be replaced. Abreu is going nowhere.

Edited by fathom

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QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jul 14, 2016 -> 06:51 PM)
Jose has been fairly disappointing since 2014, but he remains a very good hitter that is a tremendous bargain. He is paid like a league average player and is much better than that.

 

I hope this isn't the new Abreu and he's just in a funk, but even if it, Abreu isn't the problem.

 

 

Totally. So disappointing. I hate 30 home runs and 100 rbis. We should try and trade him -- if we can even get anything for him.

That way we can slide Morneau into 1B and open and slot Garcia back into a full-time DH role.

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People worried about Abreu aren't being irrational. He has steadily declined over the past three years.

 

 

Hopefully he has a huge 2nd half.

 

Even if he isn't the .300 30 hr 100 rbi guy we thought he was going to always be.. he still is better than a lot of the other slop we have.

 

 

 

Edited by harkness

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Abreu went from star to average, Garcia went from dogs*** to old, smellier dogs***.

 

I get your point, but let's be honest here: no one is looking replace Abreu. We will replace Garcia as soon as we possibly can.

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You're right, absolutely no one on this board had talked about Abreu's struggles this year. It's not like we haven't had multiple threads about it or anything.

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QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 15, 2016 -> 11:21 AM)
Abreu went from star to average, Garcia went from dogs*** to old, smellier dogs***.

 

I get your point, but let's be honest here: no one is looking replace Abreu. We will replace Garcia as soon as we possibly can.

 

Frankly, we probably should be.

 

If the Sox knew this year's Abreu was the guy we would have for the rest of his contract, then it might have completely changed the evaluation whether to re-tool or try to tweak things and go for it during this "window."

 

Because, frankly, the only cheap guys we have performing above their pay grade are Sale, Quintana, Eaton, and probably Nate Jones. Pretty hard to build a championship club from so little, when the team doesn't have the TV or gate revenue to buy upgrades at enough slots to complement these guys.

 

Abreu is unfortunately no longer clearly part of the solution. Maybe, hopefully, he'll find a way to turn it around. Because if he doesn't, replacing Garcia isn't going to make a whit of difference.

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