CWSpalehoseCWS Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Jul 18, 2016 -> 11:30 AM) voted sell but limited sell. 2017 is their last chip at the craps table. I agree with this. Sell a few pieces but don't go crazy. I'd start by firing Robin. Then trade guys like Robertson and Fraizer - granted losing both will kill the team but you technically could replace both of them with in house options (though it would most definitely be risky moves to gamble on them). Those guys won't bring in a lot but they do have some value to some contending teams. Personally, I think Fraizer would be a nice piece for the Mets at 3B, and there are always teams looking for a solid closer. Hell, call the Cubs and say we have a much CHEAPER option for you than Chapman/Miller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Jul 18, 2016 -> 02:11 PM) LOL - boy, you'll throw anything against the wall and hope it'll stick, won't you? This is one of your better or weaker attempts, depending on how you look at it. Let me spell it out for you - 25 years of getting all of the revenues with practically none of the expenses associated with a Major League Baseball stadium is going to go a long ways towards establishing billionaire status in this world. A long ways! Gotta hand it to the 'ol SOB - he knew what he was doing back in the '80s when he pulled this scheme off with the new stadium. He's a billionaire today as a result. I know you will refuse to admit you are wrong, but here is something explaining the Forbes list and explaining how JRs net worth skyrocketed, not due toa 25 year old lease, but on the sale of the Clippers. Looking at the Internet before the sale his net worth was estimated between $280 million and $350 million. http://www.magazine.org/industry-news/pres...lionaires-issue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 18, 2016 -> 06:38 PM) I know you will refuse to admit you are wrong, but here is something explaining the Forbes list and explaining how JRs net worth skyrocketed, not due toa 25 year old lease, but on the sale of the Clippers. Looking at the Internet before the sale his net worth was estimated between $280 million and $350 million. http://www.magazine.org/industry-news/pres...lionaires-issue Jesus, if the Clips are worth $2 billion or whatever, what are the Bulls worth? Forbes says $2.3 billion, but I wouldn't be surprised if that were on the low side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 (edited) This teams best window for a World Series may be in fact 2018 and 2019 with the right development and moves. Sale, Q, Rodon (hopefully developing), Fulmer (hopefully developing) and maybe Hansen (if he can get his control and command in check. Certainly has the potential). Build the pen (front end-guys like Danish, Guerrero, Beck, some free agents. Back end-Jones, Burdi, Robertson). The back end could be different obviously. We could even move a guy like Q to try and expedite the process and add young talent. Fill his spot with development or acquisition. Then develop the bats and make some acquisitions via trade or free agency. Eaton RF Engel CF Anderson SS (I think he'll be a middle of the order bat by then) Abreu DH Collins 1B Frazier (if they extend him) 3B/1B Lawrie 2B (he's been what I thought he'd be so team friendly extension would be worth it possibly) Reddick LF Catcher (FA/trade or development) If it's still a disaster then, blow it up. But that may be the season they're for real if things break their way. This is my feeling optimistic post. I'm sure someone will tell me I'm crazy or wrong. Thought a lot about this last night. Edited July 19, 2016 by SouthSideSale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Jul 18, 2016 -> 10:04 AM) Matt Davidson Davidson was just put on the 60 day DL. He's out for an extended period of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thad Bosley Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 18, 2016 -> 06:38 PM) I know you will refuse to admit you are wrong, but here is something explaining the Forbes list and explaining how JRs net worth skyrocketed, not due toa 25 year old lease, but on the sale of the Clippers. Looking at the Internet before the sale his net worth was estimated between $280 million and $350 million. http://www.magazine.org/industry-news/pres...lionaires-issue LOL - oh, so NOW you believe the Forbes list. Earlier today you were very dismissive of their information, but now you are citing it because you think it somehow defends your wrong position on this matter. Pick a side and stick with it, wouldja!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 18, 2016 -> 09:20 PM) Davidson was just put on the 60 day DL. He's out for an extended period of time. September at least. I hope he can at least comeback and get some ABs but don't rush the broken foot. Those can be tricky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Jul 18, 2016 -> 01:53 PM) Under the (sweetheart lease) deal, the Sox didn't have to pay a fee for use of the stadium until 2008. In 2015, that fee amounted to about $1.6 million. The Sox also must pay a fee on each ticket sold in excess of 1.93 million in paid attendance. Since 2008, the Sox have paid that fee only in 2010, when games drew 2.2 million fans. However, the Sox were allowed to apply a credit based on the taxes the team paid that year, reducing the ticket fee payment from $455,974 to $95,531. "The White Sox didn't have that much of an incentive to really pack the place," Sanderson said. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-sox-...0521-story.html Before sweetheart lease deal = Reinsdorf NOT a billionaire. 25 years later after state subsidization per sweetheart lease terms = Reinsdorf net worth of $1.3 billion So as you can see, you are right - Reinsdorf is all about the money, if you care to pay attention to the details of the sweetheart lease deal he got rammed down the taxpayers' throats back in 1988, and from which he's been reaping the benefits BIG TIME for the past 25 years. But because he gets subsidized for low attendance, he could easily go in for a full rebuild and his pocketbook would never know the difference. Amazing what little tidbits of information you find lying in the details! Speaking of lying... There must be some awesome stadium deals out there because there are 15 teams worth more than the White Sox. I know you ignored it completely, but WAY more of JR's net work comes from the Chicago Bulls, which he owns almost all of, versus the White Sox, of which he is a minority share holder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thad Bosley Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 18, 2016 -> 10:30 PM) Speaking of lying... There must be some awesome stadium deals out there because there are 15 teams worth more than the White Sox. I know you ignored it completely, but WAY more of JR's net work comes from the Chicago Bulls, which he owns almost all of, versus the White Sox, of which he is a minority share holder. Do the Bulls operate under a sweetheart lease deal, and have they since the United Center came into being, such that Reinsdorf enjoys the trappings of all of the revenues of that stadium but little to none of the expenses? Because that's what your hero Mr. Reinsdorf unscrupulously secured for himself with the deal with the state back in '88 for the Sox' stadium, and from which he's profited IMMENSELY over the past 25 years. Massive revenue that comes from a Major League Baseball stadium, but no expense. Pure profit for 25 years now. That's the primary reason Reinsdorf is a billionaire today. You can choose to ignore that all you want, but that's the facts, Jack. It's as simple as that. Edited July 19, 2016 by Thad Bosley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Jul 18, 2016 -> 10:21 PM) LOL - oh, so NOW you believe the Forbes list. Earlier today you were very dismissive of their information, but now you are citing it because you think it somehow defends your wrong position on this matter. Pick a side and stick with it, wouldja!! Not necessarily. I really don't know but the guy's net worth shot up over $1 billion in a year. I guess the big money kicked in on year 24 of the lease. You,really are making a fool of yourself now. Nothing about the Bulls being worth $2.3 billion, more than double the Sox even with the lease that guarantees you billions, has anything to do with JR's net worth. Edited July 19, 2016 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thad Bosley Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 18, 2016 -> 09:48 PM) Not necessarily. I really don't know but the guy's net worth shot up over $1 billion in a year. I guess the big money kicked in on year 24 of the lease. You,really are making a fool of yourself now. Nothing about the Bulls being worth $2.3 billion, more than double the Sox even with the lease that guarantees you billions, has anything to do with JR's net worth. Your wafer thin argument doesn't hold, but nice try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Jul 18, 2016 -> 10:51 PM) Your wafer thin argument doesn't hold, but nice try. I don't have to try. You already lost. Your standard, one track mind post doesn't work here, but keep making yourself look bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thad Bosley Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 18, 2016 -> 09:59 PM) I don't have to try. You already lost. Your standard, one track mind post doesn't work here, but keep making yourself look bad. Your understanding of all of this is so stunningly superficial, it's becoming embarrassing to read your drivel at this point. But keep going, because the facts will always beat out your weak attempts to deflect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 12:03 AM) Your understanding of all of this is so stunningly superficial, it's becoming embarrassing to read your drivel at this point. But keep going, because the facts will always beat out your weak attempts to deflect. Your understanding of all of this is so stunningly superficial, it's becoming embarrassing to read your drivel at this point. But keep going, because the facts will always beat out your weak attempts to deflect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Jul 18, 2016 -> 10:43 PM) Do the Bulls operate under a sweetheart lease deal, and have they since the United Center came into being such that Reinsdorf enjoys the trappings of all of the revenues of the stadium but little to none of the expenses? Because that's what your hero Mr. Reinsdorf unscrupulously secured for himself with the deal with the state back in '88, and from which he's profited IMMENSELY over the past 25 years. Massive revenue that cones from a Major League Baseball stadium, no expense. That's the primary reason Reinsdorf is a billionaire today. It's as simple as that. No offense dude, but you're totally f***ing wrong here. The sweetheart lease deal is obviously valuable, but is not nearly as valuable as you're making it out to be. How much do you think other teams pay in rent per year? Based on my limited research, it sounds like $20M might be on the high end, making our lease under-market by $18M/year. Now consider our lease only lasts 13 more years, putting its undiscounted pre-tax value at $234M. I don't have access to Excel right now, but if you took the present value of the after-tax lease savings, the value is probably closer to $100M. Given that Reindsdorf only has a small stake in the team, his portion of the sweetheart lease deal likely makes up at most a percent or two of his billion dollar valuation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted July 19, 2016 Author Share Posted July 19, 2016 So, I guess it's time to sell lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTruth05 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 07:01 AM) So, I guess it's time to sell lol If they're not gonna sell they should at least roll into the fetal position and cry until the season ends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 18, 2016 -> 10:11 PM) No offense dude, but you're totally f***ing wrong here. The sweetheart lease deal is obviously valuable, but is not nearly as valuable as you're making it out to be. How much do you think other teams pay in rent per year? Based on my limited research, it sounds like $20M might be on the high end, making our lease under-market by $18M/year. Now consider our lease only lasts 13 more years, putting its undiscounted pre-tax value at $234M. I don't have access to Excel right now, but if you took the present value of the after-tax lease savings, the value is probably closer to $100M. Given that Reindsdorf only has a small stake in the team, his portion of the sweetheart lease deal likely makes up at most a percent or two of his billion dollar valuation. Are you including the highly favorable parking agreement for the Sox? As far as the poll, currently running about 80-85% sell, although how expansive the selling isn't possible to determine. Edited July 19, 2016 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighurt574 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 It would be crazy to still be in buy mode at this point, unless we're acquiring guys under contract for next year as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Has JR ever fired a GM other than Hawk Harrelson? Seriously, Hahn and KW aren't going anywhere until he passes away and someone else assumes the role as majority owner. So sad and morbid we have to wait for that to finally see changes within upper management and correct all of this mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Larry Himes. Personality clash. Not because he couldnt draft extremely well. Being a good/loyal team member is paramount. See Thibs, 2015. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCsoxfan Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 The silver lining in all of this is that we're not going to be fooled into thinking this ball club is a contender & other "1 piece away". Would be a travesty to trade good young prospects on this mediocre team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCsoxfan Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Reports out there that the Dodgers are open to trading Puig for another corner OF. Eaton for Puig straight up? Or am I dreaming? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted July 19, 2016 Author Share Posted July 19, 2016 QUOTE (NCsoxfan @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 08:35 AM) Reports out there that the Dodgers are open to trading Puig for another corner OF. Eaton for Puig straight up? Or am I dreaming? Are you serious? Eaton is better than Puig..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCsoxfan Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 09:36 AM) Are you serious? Eaton is better than Puig..... Good point, didn't realize he has been so awful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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