White sox may be reconsidering their stance of being non sellers

[Southwest Sider]

As much as many may have doubted the merits of going for it, it really wasn't a bad move. Many had observed awhile back while the Sox were loading up that many of the players were on short contracts, making it much easier to unload them should the Sox prove to not be serious contenders. One question I had with it was would these players retain or build upon their value? If the players were playing well enough to have value, then there was a good chance that the Sox were contending. If the Sox weren't contending, then these players haven't been playing as well and have lesser trade value.

 

The other question I had is would the Sox only trade guys like Melky, Robertson (and the rest of the pen), Lawrie, and Frazier in the event of a rebuild and continue to try to build around the core of Sale/Q/Abreu/Eaton.

 

The good news is that I think these players have performed well enough to have decent trade value. Robertson is an elite closer, yes he is paid handsomely but the contract is by no means an albatross. He should fetch a good return. Melky has continued as he has in his career of being a professional hitter. Having him on the team has been vital to staying near .500, in my opinion. He is a great hitter and with only 1 year left on his contract, should be able to bring solid value back. Frazier has had a terrible batting average but his power is real and he could well hit 40+ home runs this year. We'd be a lot better off if he hit for power and average, but he definitely has value. Lawrie is pretty decent too, I'm surprised Oakland let him go for so little, but maybe that's the kind of return the Sox could expect for Lawrie. Duke, Jones, Jennings etc should also bring back value.

 

As has been mentioned in this thread, you can't really trade those short contract guys without trading the core guys. Their contracts will nearly be up by the time a new core is forming, and those core guys have the most value and will bring back the elite prospects. The Sox would need to fully commit to a rebuild. If the offer for a player isn't there this trade deadline, try again in the offseason. If it's not there in the offseason, try next season. Abreu is a great example of this. Some teams might try to snag him on the cheap since his numbers aren't elite, but it might be more prudent to keep him and see what he does next year.

 

A rebuild would also give the Sox the flexibility to see what they have in other players. I think you have to keep a guy like Avi Garcia around because he doesn't have any value and he would fill a position for a rebuilding Sox team. You never know, maybe he actually figures it out and you dump him at his highest value. Keep Tim Anderson around and let him learn on a crappy team. Hopefully he'd be willing to sign a contract to buy out his arb years and 2 years or so of free agency if he's worth keeping him around. That way he could be infused into whatever our new core is by the time it is coming up. Rodon is in a similar situation, but given that his agent is Scott Boras, if/when Rodon figures it out, keep him until he's 1-2 years from free agency and then unload him to the highest bidder. This would help add layers of depth to the minor league system.

 

Get top 10 (prefer top 5) draft picks a couple years in a row and really invest in Latin America. This is where I believe the Sox faulted the most during the past few years. Teams like the Indians who are direct rivals have several good Latin American players on their current roster, and it is a huge reason why they are so much better than the Sox. Focus heavily on bringing in the best Latin American prospects during the rebuild. Instead of investing money into the ML roster, invest it in prospects.

 

Bring in all the best player development people you possibly can. I like Hostetler, so let him run the show there and bring in guys he likes. I kind of agree with some posters here that this is the direction Hahn has wanted to go the entire time. Let him run a rebuild, I say. There's no need to let him go but hopefully KW, who got lucky once in 2005 with a strategy that really doesn't work for long term success and decided to continuously employ that strategy to chase a World Series title, would resign since this direction isn't one that he endorses. That way Hahn can freely run the show.

 

This all sounds great to me. I'm ready for a Sox rebuild. I'm young enough to not care about a few more years of losing (especially with light at the end of the tunnel, unlike now). I'd feel bad for the older fans who might miss out on the potential rewards of a rebuild, but I really hope they wouldn't get too salty about it. This is a business and if the Sox want to win over some newer generations of fans they need to start over with this team because continually floundering around .500 is just not fun.

 

Can JR set aside his urges to win now and approve the rebuild? Would he be okay with possibly dying before seeing the Sox contend again? These are the real questions. There is smoke around a firesell now... which honestly surprises the heck out of me. It would be incredibly admirable of JR if he approved a rebuild, and my respect for him would reach new heights.

 

 

[Panerista]

That's only 3 years away. The sox will be looking at far longer than that with no top of the rotation starters. Unless you think rodon and Fulmer are 1 and 2 starters. I'm not convinced of that.

I mean, yes and no. We don't really know what either are at this point, but it's a better situation than what happened on the north side. If the Sox draft solid fielding talent, they can trade or sign the pitching they need.

 

It's the fielding talent we really need to grow. And if it takes anymore than three seasons, our Ace pitchers are gone anyway.

Edited July 22, 2016 by Deadpool

[Quin]

This sounds like a good plan to start. My hope is that Q is the only one traded. I'd hate to see him go, like all of us would. Also, no guarantee that Shields is even around next year. He could opt out, especially with how bad the FA market is next year. Then they are creating even more holes in their team. If they keep Sale, then they would have a possible rotation of sale/Rodon/Fulmer/Gonzalez/?

 

If Q is traded, I'd be fine seeing Frazier, Melky, Robertson, Jennings and Duke finding new homes

[Dick Allen]

People aren't going to be able to deal with a full rebuild. Just look at the facts. 2014 was a rebuilding season, how many people complained about Konerko taking the 25th spot and ruining "roster construction"? They weren't going to win, I thought people didn't care. And many who have said this season is over are complaining Jacob Turner is starting tonight. That's what you get in a rebuild. Guys like Jacob Turner starting, for years.

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

What's the point of keeping Sale if Q, DRob, etc are traded?

 

That team obviously wouldn't be competitive, and attendance would crater whenever Sale isn't pitching. If he was a position player, it might be different, but he only plays every 5 days anyway. He's the face of the franchise, but why keep a legit ace on a 65 win team? It really makes no sense.

[ptatc]

I'm still confident in Rodon to become a dominant pitcher in time. Fulmer, I haven't seen enough of, but you never know. If you couple in the prospects we'd get from these trades (maybe Urias, De Leon, etc.) and the one we draft and likely fast track, 3-4 years isn't that crazy.

Even if rodon does become 1 or 2, there is a great deal of "hope" there. Anyone they draft will take at least 4 years to become a 1 or 2 in the MLB, unless you count on drafting HOF players every year like Sale.

 

If they don't keep one top of the rotation starters, I don't think they will not be a realistic World Series contender for at least 5 years.

[Chicago White Sox]

This seems like the best bet. Hopefully, they should get at least 1 or 2 MLB ready players in the positions who mentioned. This will 2-3 holes to fill over the next year or two.

Frazier, Melky, & Lawrie are all free agents after next season. So either you're spending big money to lock up those guys (all three who are flawed and two in their 30s) or have to fill another three holes with limited internal options.

 

I really feel like people are grasping at straws here. Look at our weak minor league system. Look at the next two free agent classes which are both poor. Realize Chris Sale, our most important player, has three years of control left. Combine all those facts and really try to come up with a legit plan to win before you lose Sale for nothing. Best case scenario you get one year with him before leaves for a $200M+ contract and that's assuming everything goes right.

 

Seems like many posters here are so anti-rebuild that they'd like to half-ass it for another three years.

[fathom]

People aren't going to be able to deal with a full rebuild. Just look at the facts. 2014 was a rebuilding season, how many people complained about Konerko taking the 25th spot and ruining "roster construction"? They weren't going to win, I thought people didn't care. And many who have said this season is over are complaining Jacob Turner is starting tonight. That's what you get in a rebuild. Guys like Jacob Turner starting, for years.

 

The complaints about Turner starting tonight were before Hahn said they're open for business.

[Dunt]

People aren't going to be able to deal with a full rebuild. Just look at the facts. 2014 was a rebuilding season, how many people complained about Konerko taking the 25th spot and ruining "roster construction"? They weren't going to win, I thought people didn't care. And many who have said this season is over are complaining Jacob Turner is starting tonight. That's what you get in a rebuild. Guys like Jacob Turner starting, for years.

 

People werent complaining about Jacob Turner because a rebuild was in order, people were complaining about Jacob Turner starting because he was starting out of the all-star break when people were still thinking the team was going for it.

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

Even if rodon does become 1 or 2, there is a great deal of "hope" there. Anyone they draft will take at least 4 years to become a 1 or 2 in the MLB, unless you count on drafting HOF players every year like Sale.

 

If they don't keep one top of the rotation starters, I don't think they will not be a realistic World Series contender for at least 5 years.

They haven't been a realistic World Series contender since Sale and Q have put on a White Sox uniform, so...

[lasttriptotulsa]

Anybody expecting the Sox to do a full 3-5 year rebuild is just kidding themselves. It will never happen nor should it. The team has a very, very solid core in Sale, Quintana, Rodon, Fulmer, Eaton and Abreu. Plus they have Collins and Burdi waiting in the wings. The team is so close to competing that it would be a shame to start over. I could see them moving some of the group of Q, Frazier, Robertson and Duke but I think they will still go for it in 2017. Honestly who was the last team to do a full tear down and end up winning a World Series out of the rebuild?

[Jose Abreu]

People aren't going to be able to deal with a full rebuild. Just look at the facts. 2014 was a rebuilding season, how many people complained about Konerko taking the 25th spot and ruining "roster construction"? They weren't going to win, I thought people didn't care. And many who have said this season is over are complaining Jacob Turner is starting tonight. That's what you get in a rebuild. Guys like Jacob Turner starting, for years.

But I'd hope more are willing to put up with an elongated losing period if they can realize how good the farm would be and how good the team could be in the near future

[Dick Allen]

The complaints about Turner starting tonight were before Hahn said they're open for business.

Doesn't matter. If they aren't going to win what difference does it make? Why do you harp on JB Shuck if you are all for losing and a rebuild? Why did you complain about Konerko in 2014?

 

If the Sox went into full rebuild mode and had castoffs and just about every position, there would be plenty of complaining. Even from you.

[Jose Abreu]

Even if rodon does become 1 or 2, there is a great deal of "hope" there. Anyone they draft will take at least 4 years to become a 1 or 2 in the MLB, unless you count on drafting HOF players every year like Sale.

 

If they don't keep one top of the rotation starters, I don't think they will not be a realistic World Series contender for at least 5 years.

Then we can always head to the FA market or the trade market to find our ace, if we do get to this "worst case scenario" point

[ptatc]

What's the point of keeping Sale if Q, DRob, etc are traded?

 

That team obviously wouldn't be competitive, and attendance would crater whenever Sale isn't pitching. If he was a position player, it might be different, but he only plays every 5 days anyway. He's the face of the franchise, but why keep a legit ace on a 65 win team? It really makes no sense.

Because finding top of the rotation guys are really hard to find. There is a reason that these teams in contention are willing to trade a "king's ransom" for Sale, because he is a rare pitcher and nearly impossible to find.

 

The sox have one already. The key is to have a discussion with him and see if he is willing to be on a bad team for a few more years and be the leader for a bunch of kids.

[Chisoxfn]

I think you are pretty spot on here, especially if you've been reading between the lines of everything that has been said over the last 24-48 hrs. A lot of reassurances Sale isn't going anywhere, but you haven't really heard a thing about Q. I think Robertson and Duke leaving are no brainers, you have no use for them and can get valuable pieces back.

My thoughts are if you do that, I think you have to consider Frazier as a possibility as well. Of course I'm a huge Saladino fan and want to just get him a ton of at bats.

[Jose Abreu]

Anybody expecting the Sox to do a full 3-5 year rebuild is just kidding themselves. It will never happen nor should it. The team has a very, very solid core in Sale, Quintana, Rodon, Fulmer, Eaton and Abreu. Plus they have Collins and Burdi waiting in the wings. The team is so close to competing that it would be a shame to start over. I could see them moving some of the group of Q, Frazier, Robertson and Duke but I think they will still go for it in 2017. Honestly who was the last team to do a full tear down and end up winning a World Series out of the rebuild?

Royals

[Chisoxfn]

People aren't going to be able to deal with a full rebuild. Just look at the facts. 2014 was a rebuilding season, how many people complained about Konerko taking the 25th spot and ruining "roster construction"? They weren't going to win, I thought people didn't care. And many who have said this season is over are complaining Jacob Turner is starting tonight. That's what you get in a rebuild. Guys like Jacob Turner starting, for years.

Reality is, I don't think the Sox are going to do that, but if they are going to try and move some guys, I think you have to move people like Robertson and still need to move one of your pitchers, cause somehow, you got to start multiplying prospects in the equation who might pan out (they all might bust too).

[ptatc]

Then we can always head to the FA market or the trade market to find our ace, if we do get to this "worst case scenario" point

Spending 200 million for 5 years for an ace is not the way to have success. More often than not it doesn't work out. I would rather keep the one they have.

[Harry Chappas]

The complaints about Turner starting tonight were before Hahn said they're open for business.

 

Was there ever a good explanation given as to why Turner was starting over Fulmer?

 

Now that they are open for business and the clock is ticking why not let Fulmer start until Rodon comes back and then move him to the pen?

 

[Panerista]

People aren't going to be able to deal with a full rebuild. Just look at the facts. 2014 was a rebuilding season, how many people complained about Konerko taking the 25th spot and ruining "roster construction"? They weren't going to win, I thought people didn't care. And many who have said this season is over are complaining Jacob Turner is starting tonight. That's what you get in a rebuild. Guys like Jacob Turner starting, for years.

Look at the attendance. People aren't dealing with this garbage, either.

 

Spending 200 million for 5 years for an ace is not the way to have success. More often than not it doesn't work out. I would rather keep the one they have.

If the rest of the team is cheap, you can totally overspend on an ace. You have to pick your spots, obviously, but there's still no cap.

Edited July 22, 2016 by Deadpool

[Dick Allen]

Then we can always head to the FA market or the trade market to find our ace, if we do get to this "worst case scenario" point

And trade the prospects you got for Sale for an ace that makes double his salary?

 

Prospects bust. You can't give all your talent away or you wind up really sorry.

[Jose Abreu]

People who speak of our core and how close we are to competing...

 

sure, our core is great. But you need a supporting cast to win. Our regime has proven time and time again that they are incapable of gathering an adequate supporting cast to complement our core.

Edited July 22, 2016 by Jose Abreu

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

Anybody expecting the Sox to do a full 3-5 year rebuild is just kidding themselves. It will never happen nor should it. The team has a very, very solid core in Sale, Quintana, Rodon, Fulmer, Eaton and Abreu. Plus they have Collins and Burdi waiting in the wings. The team is so close to competing that it would be a shame to start over. I could see them moving some of the group of Q, Frazier, Robertson and Duke but I think they will still go for it in 2017. Honestly who was the last team to do a full tear down and end up winning a World Series out of the rebuild?

This phrase is said every year, and yet the end result is always the same.

 

Why should we expect the Sox to be any better next year than they are this year with a core that is a year older and the bottom of the barrel free agent signings they make every offseason?

 

That philosophy is insanity - doing the same thing over and over again while expecting different results. The Sox have proven that rebuilding on the fly doesn't work. It's time to try something new.

 

 

[Jose Abreu]

And trade the prospects you got for Sale for an ace that makes double his salary?

 

Prospects bust. You can't give all your talent away or you wind up really sorry.

I hate to use them as an example, but look at the Cubs. Once they became ready, they signed Jon Lester. This is all assuming that Rodon, Fulmer, Urias, De Leon, 2017 1st round pick, etc. all bust, and that's pretty unlikely