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White Sox Listening on Sale

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Assuming that anything we're hearing is what is actually happening (and that's assuming a lot) ...

 

so much of the posturing going on is near textbook.

 

Sox: We hold all the cards -- this is a once in a generation trade opp (talent/surplus) and you don't get him unless we're overwhelmed.

 

Bosox: We'll overwhelm you, but you're not getting Moncada because we've got too much invested in him already. Take any other 5 you want.

 

And for those of us who have seen similar hard-line positions play out over and over again, Sox will allow the clock to wind-down, while Bosox will keep playing the "anyone but Moncada" card, and we'll see who caves first. Very likely that Robertson, Melky, or even Jennings gets added to break a tie. Or, and I hope not, Sox keep insisting on Moncada, but cave by taking a couple fewer prospects in order to achieve the "victory" of attaining M + B + maybe just one other (Devers?).

 

Fascinating stuff. Oh, to be a fly on the wall. Because, unfortunately, we'll hear what we hear and never know exactly what is going on.

 

I still wouldn't be surprised if the Yankees swoop in last minute and blow everyone out of the water. That would be classic New York. Would so love to win a deal big-time taking advantage of the hated East Coast rivals doing their thing with each other!

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What's gonna be most frustrating to me is if Sale is moved, but Sox hold onto pieces like Frazier, Melky, Robertson, Shields, Gonzalez. If you trade Sale, trade everyone cause you're going to suck anyway. I don't think he's going to get traded, but we're sort of running out of time to make other moves if he is.

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Few hours left. I was optimistic something would get done but I don't think Boston is going to budge. Oh well.

Maybe they revisit in November. I'm fine with this because they're panicking and giving our most valuable assets away to a team in the AL especially.

Edited by SouthSideSale

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QUOTE (Footlongcomiskeydog @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 11:00 AM)
Maybe the Sox have no real interest in moving Q or Sale. Obviously you listen to offers for them and explore what teams are willing to give up, but this might just be posturing by the Sox. Weren't the Sox already offered a supposed king's ransom for Sale? Would give my left nut to see exactly who was on the table in that supposed trade.

 

If I had to guess it was a package around Profar and Gallo by Texas...a king's ransom based on reputation and prospect rankings. Fine if we were trading just any player but a low ball for Chris Sale

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QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 10:58 AM)
Boston has some positions that are set long-term, those being held by Pedroia, Betts, and Bogaerts. Moncada could move to third, sure, but then you have Devers who would also come up and play... what, DH then?

 

Pedroia is 32. He seems the most likely to eventually move and be replaced by Moncada. It might be possible to move him to LF.

 

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QUOTE (CyAcosta41 @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 09:01 AM)
Assuming that anything we're hearing is what is actually happening (and that's assuming a lot) ...

 

so much of the posturing going on is near textbook.

 

Sox: We hold all the cards -- this is a once in a generation trade opp (talent/surplus) and you don't get him unless we're overwhelmed.

 

Bosox: We'll overwhelm you, but you're not getting Moncada because we've got too much invested in him already. Take any other 5 you want.

 

And for those of us who have seen similar hard-line positions play out over and over again, Sox will allow the clock to wind-down, while Bosox will keep playing the "anyone but Moncada" card, and we'll see who caves first. Very likely that Robertson, Melky, or even Jennings gets added to break a tie. Or, and I hope not, Sox keep insisting on Moncada, but cave by taking a couple fewer prospects in order to achieve the "victory" of attaining M + B + maybe just one other (Devers?).

 

Fascinating stuff. Oh, to be a fly on the wall. Because, unfortunately, we'll hear what we hear and never know exactly what is going on.

 

I still wouldn't be surprised if the Yankees swoop in last minute and blow everyone out of the water. That would be classic New York. Would so love to win a deal big-time taking advantage of the hated East Coast rivals doing their thing with each other!

Which is where I counter with Q.

 

I'd do Q for their 2-5 prospects in a heartbeat.

 

Sale...I'm torn on not getting Moncada as part of the deal.

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IMO the extra year of control makes Quintana just as valuable as Sale. I know teams won't see it that way, but it's not like Sale is that much better.

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QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 11:01 AM)
What's gonna be most frustrating to me is if Sale is moved, but Sox hold onto pieces like Frazier, Melky, Robertson, Shields, Gonzalez. If you trade Sale, trade everyone cause you're going to suck anyway. I don't think he's going to get traded, but we're sort of running out of time to make other moves if he is.

 

I agree, with the caveat that you can't trade both Sale and Q and expect to compete in a couple of years.

 

I'd actually be in favor of trying to sign Frazier to an extension.

 

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QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 11:01 AM)
What's gonna be most frustrating to me is if Sale is moved, but Sox hold onto pieces like Frazier, Melky, Robertson, Shields, Gonzalez. If you trade Sale, trade everyone cause you're going to suck anyway. I don't think he's going to get traded, but we're sort of running out of time to make other moves if he is.

Depends what we get back for Sale. I'm not really for this, but if you were able to get Mazara and Profar, that's a "win in the next couple of years" move. That would mean Garcia is out (Mazara plays OF), Melky could go to DH, and Profar can play a number of positions.

 

I'm not saying I like that idea, but there are ways in which the Sox could only trade Sale.

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Are these Boston or White Sox leaks that Stark has?

 

It seems pretty silly Boston would be trying to lower the price by leaking there is less than a 5% chance.

 

Give us Chris Sale for what we want to give you, or we won't make a deal. I don't think that moves the needle at 35th and Shields.

Edited by Dick Allen

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I can't stress enough how little sense the Moncada "money we have invested in him" thing makes. I highly doubt that's a real holdup, because DD is smarter than that.

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QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 09:03 AM)
IMO the extra year of control makes Quintana just as valuable as Sale. I know teams won't see it that way, but it's not like Sale is that much better.

The difference with Sale is he always has that one dominant game in him...say it's a WS game...he has the ability to dial it up and absolutely dominate whereas I am not sure Q does...Q is more steady, but Chris has a higher ceiling for any given game(s)...

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QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 11:00 AM)
One would assume Hahn is a good multi-tasker...

 

:lol: When Hahn applied for the job, the job description said "must be a good multi-tasker" right below the other requirements of: "flexibility to travel when needed" and "ability to lift 5 lbs"

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QUOTE (Deadpool @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 11:05 AM)
Depends what we get back for Sale. I'm not really for this, but if you were able to get Mazara and Profar, that's a "win in the next couple of years" move. That would mean Garcia is out (Mazara plays OF), Melky could go to DH, and Profar can play a number of positions.

 

I'm not saying I like that idea, but there are ways in which the Sox could only trade Sale.

I mean, wouldn't our rotation suck then?

Quintana

Shields

Rodon

Gonzalez

Ranaudo?

 

Yuck.

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Also, DD "caving" is NOT going to include Moncada/Benintendi AND Devers/Kopech. If Hahn somehow talks him into the first two being included, anything else is gonna be light.

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QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 11:06 AM)
I mean, wouldn't our rotation suck then?

Quintana

Shields

Rodon

Gonzalez

Ranaudo?

 

Yuck.

Yeah, I don't like a trade with Texas anymore, either. Especially since Fulmer has been struggling.

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Bob Nightengale on MLBN says Red Sox want Sale "very, very badly", far more than Dodgers and Rangers, and he thinks it's a coin flip whether he gets moved today.

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QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 11:05 AM)
I can't stress enough how little sense the Moncada "money we have invested in him" thing makes. I highly doubt that's a real holdup, because DD is smarter than that.

I think it makes total sense. It's $63 million added to the cost of acquiring Chris Sale.

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QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 11:06 AM)
Also, DD "caving" is NOT going to include Moncada/Benintendi AND Devers/Kopech. If Hahn somehow talks him into the first two being included, anything else is gonna be light.

For Chris Sale, you need Moncada, Benintendi, and at least one of Devers/Kopech.

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QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 11:06 AM)
Also, DD "caving" is NOT going to include Moncada/Benintendi AND Devers/Kopech. If Hahn somehow talks him into the first two being included, anything else is gonna be light.

 

Moncada and Benintiendi are prospects, not proven ML talent. And I don't think that those two plus an average prospect or a mediocre bullpen arm are enough for 3+ years of a bornerline-HOF pitcher with a ridiculously cheap contract.

Edited by Black_Jack29

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I'm gonna trust Nightengale, who is always right about us, when he says that it's 50/50 on Sale getting moved today, over Stark, who said it's 5/95.

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QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 11:11 AM)
I'm gonna trust Nightengale, who is always right about us, when he says that it's 50/50 on Sale getting moved today, over Stark, who said it's 5/95.

 

I hope that you're right, but Stark's analysis seems more plausible to me. Boston is the best trading partner for us now and it might make more sense for them to wait until the winter meetings. I get the impression that they might be more willing to move somebody like Betts than Moncada, and they may not want to do that now.

 

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QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 11:03 AM)
Which is where I counter with Q.

 

I'd do Q for their 2-5 prospects in a heartbeat.

 

Sale...I'm torn on not getting Moncada as part of the deal.

 

Agree. I'd do that too.

 

That's the beauty of Rick truly holding all the cards.

 

And I'd actually prefer that result -- send Sale to the N.L. (far away from us) for a king's ransom and still get a boatload of REAL prospects from prospect rich Boston.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 11:08 AM)
I think it makes total sense. It's $63 million added to the cost of acquiring Chris Sale.

 

It isn't though -- the "value" assigned to Moncada today doesn't have anything to do with the cost of acquiring him in the past. The Red Sox either made a good buy or a bad buy, but regardless, what they have TODAY is today's version of Moncada.

 

It's a common stock market fallacy to think like you're suggesting. If you bought $1,000 of stock yesterday, it diminished to $500 in value today, you shouldn't balk at a chance to sell it for $600 simply because you had $1000 into it.

Edited by Eminor3rd

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QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 11:10 AM)
Moncada and Benintiendi are prospects, not proven ML talent. And I don't think that those two plus an average prospect or a mediocre bullpen arm are enough for 3+ years of a bornerline-HOF pitcher with a ridiculously cheap contract.

 

I'm not arguing with your opinion of his value, I'm just telling you there's no way that deal ever happens. I'm just trying to set expectations.

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