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White Sox Listening on Sale

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Great thread.

 

I hear the white sox are listening to offers on Sale. You think they'll fit anything before the trade deadline?

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QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Sep 14, 2016 -> 12:52 PM)
DH Harold Baines was leading the AL in hitting at the All-Star break shortly before he was traded to the Rangers that season, and was the Sox' only All Star representative that year. So up until he was traded, he was, in fact, the Sox' best player in 1989.

1. Disagree. Baines was a very good player but Fisk was still the best player on that team.

2. You didn't comment on this one?

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QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 14, 2016 -> 04:22 PM)
1. Disagree. Baines was a very good player but Fisk was still the best player on that team.

2. You didn't comment on this one?

1. The initial question asked was about the immediate impact of any new young players acquired after having been traded for the Sox' best player. I referenced 1989, when at the time Baines was traded, he was the best player on the Sox, bar none. Even better than the great Carlton Fisk, if for no other reason than Fisk missed a third of 1989 for whatever reason. If you want to make a case that Fisk was the better all around player over the course of their respective careers, you might have a point to make. But in 1989, when Baines was actually a top the league in batting average at the time of his trade, he was the better of the two. Feel free to continue to disagree, but that's my final say on that one.

2. I don't remember what "this one" was, and I don't feel like flipping back several pages to find out what it was. If it's more of the Wieters/Fowler/Volquez/Moreland sailing into the rescue next season business, forget about it. That dog won't hunt.

Edited by Thad Bosley

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QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Sep 14, 2016 -> 05:30 PM)
1. The initial question asked was about the immediate impact of any new young players acquired after having been traded for the Sox' best player. I referenced 1989, when at the time Baines was traded, he was the best player on the Sox, bar none. Even better than the great Carlton Fisk, if for no other reason than Fisk missed a third of 1989 for whatever reason. If you want to make a case that Fisk was the better all around player over the course of their respective careers, you might have a point to make. But in 1989, when Baines was actually a top the league in batting average at the time of his trade, he was the better of the two. Feel free to continue to disagree, but that's my final say on that one.

2. I don't remember what "this one" was, and I don't feel like flipping back several pages to find out what it was. If it's more of the Wieters/Fowler/Volquez/Moreland sailing into the rescue next season business, forget about it. That dog won't hunt.

1. Still disagree and fangraphs would agree with me.

2. What you are talking about isn't just trading Chris Sale. If you are trading Chris Sale, you are also trading 3 or 4 of Todd Frazier, Melky Cabrera, David Robertson, Adam Eaton, Jose Quintana, and Jose Abreu. To equate that to 1989, they would be also trading Carlton Fisk, Bobby Thigpen, and Ozzie Guillen in addition to Harold Baines. Unless I am wrong and you are only in favor of moving Chris Sale and no other veterans this offseason?

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Fisk was the better overall player because of position, but at that point in their respective careers, Baines was in his prime and Fisk was nearing the end.

 

Unless you can argue another team would have given up the same package the Rangers surrendered.

 

Of course, as a DH, those players forever be handicapped statistically until they come up with a better stat than WAR. That's how you could also argue a month ago that Avila was "better" than Abreu.

Edited by caulfield12

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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 14, 2016 -> 05:49 PM)
Fisk was the better overall player because of position, but at that point in their respective careers, Baines was in his prime and Fisk was nearing the end.

 

Unless you can argue another team would have given up the same package the Rangers surrendered.

 

Of course, as a DH, those players forever be handicapped statistically until they come up with a better stat than WAR. That's how you could also argue a month ago that Avila was "better" than Abreu.

Fisk and Baines had the same wRC+ of 129 that season. So while Baines hit really well and outhit most DHs that season the same exact thing could be said about Fisk relative to other catchers. And then obviously Fisk played the toughest position on the diamond at an above average level, that's what really separated the two that season and made Fisk the better player.

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