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Jose Abreu

Trade Deadline: Sox Make No Moves

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QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 09:18 PM)
I've been sick to my stomach all afternoon over this. I understand the underlying logic in holding onto Sale & Quintana until the offseason, although I question which non-contenders will actually be part of this so-called derby. To me, there are only so many teams that can afford these guys and most of them were in the playoff hunt anyways. Having said that, major leaguers could be in play this fall and so could 2016 draft picks. Perhaps a few more teams will enter the fray, but I don't expect a ton more, even with a poor free agent market. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on Sale & Quintana for now.

 

What really pisses me off are all the other guys they could have dealt. Yes, we don't know what was offered, but it's quite amazing to me that we only made one trade and it was for a local kid with ties to our GM's high school. Tilson is a legit prospect, but I can't help but think this is another case of our front office trying to get their "guy" who fills a specific need and missing out on a potentially greater return. And I find it incredibly hard to believe no one offered anything of value for Melky or Robertson. Relievers & OFs were going left and right for solid returns. The fact we couldn't make any deals with out guys strongly suggests our demands were unrealistic or we were simply late to the party. Either way, this deadline only increased my fears that Hahn & KW don't know how to sell.

 

The worst part of this all is the complete lack of direction. We still don't know if this team is going to rebuild or retool or most likely do a half-ass job in between. The lack of moves has me greatly concerned there is still no long term plan. Obviously we'll know more this fall/winter, but I would have loved to seen some signs that a rebuilding was coming. Instead, we get to spend the next five months worrying whether or no the front office will do the right thing. I'm getting to the point where following this team has become unenjoyable due to the utter incompetence of our front office and ownership group. Again, I hope they prove me wrong and blow this mess up during the offseason, but with the lack of direction and accountability for years & years I have no reason to be optimistic at the moment.

 

This is how I feel. Now that our seasons done, I'm rooting for a top 10 draft pick. f*** it because we need them.

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QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 08:14 PM)
Not surprised one iota that we kept Sale and Q . Look what the Yankees got for Chapman for a a rental. Then figure the time Sale and Q have left and no matter what the return we got it wouldn't be enough. We can still get productive cheap years from them and then trade them for a haul if they stay healthy.

 

Maybe we see Shield or Gonzales moved later but if you look at how we entered this season with the 4 and 5 spots in turmoil and look at how the top 5 are pitching now the Sox could have a pretty good rotation next year especially if Shields and Gonzo finish as strong as they have been pitching lately.

 

Let's say Jerry opens up the checkbook , long shot I know, but the lack of moves could be tied to Jerry saying something like that. Even though it's a thin free agent class there is still going to be some quality that could help the Sox. Cespedes( if he opts out), Reddick, Kenley Jansen, Lucroy ,Dexter Fowler, Ian Desmond. Add some OBP ,power and relief pitching and all of a sudden you have a team with direction . Maybe Melky and Robertson get moved in the offseason to free up some money.

 

Just sayin' things CAN get better.

I wouldn't spend too much time expecting a spending spree sprouting forth from "Our Octogenarian Owner" this winter, for premium talent that matters, at least. Remember the negotiation "principles" that he tethered the organization to last winter? No contract offers greater than three years to the available premium talent? How'd that approach work out for the team? Not too well! If they enter this winter with these same "principles" in place, they will exit the winter with the same results.

 

Unfortunately we'll need a plan in the offseason not counting on 'ol Uncle Jer digging deep into his tax-subsidized profits to improve this team, but one that hopefully proves to be effective in lifting this team out of its current and long term malaise.

Edited by Thad Bosley

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QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 09:14 PM)
Not surprised one iota that we kept Sale and Q . Look what the Yankees got for Chapman for a a rental. Then figure the time Sale and Q have left and no matter what the return we got it wouldn't be enough. We can still get productive cheap years from them and then trade them for a haul if they stay healthy.

 

Maybe we see Shield or Gonzales moved later but if you look at how we entered this season with the 4 and 5 spots in turmoil and look at how the top 5 are pitching now the Sox could have a pretty good rotation next year especially if Shields and Gonzo finish as strong as they have been pitching lately.

 

Let's say Jerry opens up the checkbook , long shot I know, but the lack of moves could be tied to Jerry saying something like that. Even though it's a thin free agent class there is still going to be some quality that could help the Sox. Cespedes( if he opts out), Reddick, Kenley Jansen, Lucroy ,Dexter Fowler, Ian Desmond. Add some OBP ,power and relief pitching and all of a sudden you have a team with direction . Maybe Melky and Robertson get moved in the offseason to free up some money.

 

Just sayin' things CAN get better.

 

I agree w what yore saying. But Lucroy and Dexter have team options that will certainly be exercised.

 

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From Whitesoxdave

 

FWIW I was told the #WhiteSox turned down a Benintendi, Kopech, Johnson/Ball, and PTBNL package for Quintana from #RedSox

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QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 11:06 PM)
From Whitesoxdave

 

FWIW I was told the #WhiteSox turned down a Benintendi, Kopech, Johnson/Ball, and PTBNL package for Quintana from #RedSox

 

0_o

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QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 10:06 PM)
From Whitesoxdave

 

FWIW I was told the #WhiteSox turned down a Benintendi, Kopech, Johnson/Ball, and PTBNL package for Quintana from #RedSox

 

Yeah, there would have been a pretty impressive meltdown if they came back to the fans with that for Q, and rightly so.

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QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 10:06 PM)
From Whitesoxdave

 

FWIW I was told the #WhiteSox turned down a Benintendi, Kopech, Johnson/Ball, and PTBNL package for Quintana from #RedSox

 

 

I would not have made that deal. Benintendi is going to be awesome but that's light. I would have done Benintendi, Devers, and Trey Ball though

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QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 10:06 PM)
From Whitesoxdave

 

FWIW I was told the #WhiteSox turned down a Benintendi, Kopech, Johnson/Ball, and PTBNL package for Quintana from #RedSox

 

Solid offer, but I don't blame the Sox for turning that down. They can get more in the offseason. I just don't like guys like Melky, Robertson, Lawrie, Jones, etc. still here.

 

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:cheers

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 08:18 PM)
I've been sick to my stomach all afternoon over this. I understand the underlying logic in holding onto Sale & Quintana until the offseason, although I question which non-contenders will actually be part of this so-called derby. To me, there are only so many teams that can afford these guys and most of them were in the playoff hunt anyways. Having said that, major leaguers could be in play this fall and so could 2016 draft picks. Perhaps a few more teams will enter the fray, but I don't expect a ton more, even with a poor free agent market. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on Sale & Quintana for now.

 

What really pisses me off are all the other guys they could have dealt. Yes, we don't know what was offered, but it's quite amazing to me that we only made one trade and it was for a local kid with ties to our GM's high school. Tilson is a legit prospect, but I can't help but think this is another case of our front office trying to get their "guy" who fills a specific need and missing out on a potentially greater return. And I find it incredibly hard to believe no one offered anything of value for Melky or Robertson. Relievers & OFs were going left and right for solid returns. The fact we couldn't make any deals with out guys strongly suggests our demands were unrealistic or we were simply late to the party. Either way, this deadline only increased my fears that Hahn & KW don't know how to sell.

 

The worst part of this all is the complete lack of direction. We still don't know if this team is going to rebuild or retool or most likely do a half-ass job in between. The lack of moves has me greatly concerned there is still no long term plan. Obviously we'll know more this fall/winter, but I would have loved to seen some signs that a rebuilding was coming. Instead, we get to spend the next five months worrying whether or no the front office will do the right thing. I'm getting to the point where following this team has become unenjoyable due to the utter incompetence of our front office and ownership group. Again, I hope they prove me wrong and blow this mess up during the offseason, but with the lack of direction and accountability for years & years I have no reason to be optimistic at the moment.

 

Exactly right.

 

At this point, they won't be able to give tickets away, and then you'll have a forced instead of planned rebuild.

 

The dichotomy with the Northside couldn't be more obvious. We're almost completely irrelevant. Congrats, JR.

 

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QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 08:13 PM)
I would not have made that deal. Benintendi is going to be awesome but that's light. I would have done Benintendi, Devers, and Trey Ball though

A few observations...

 

1) Makes you think they really did require Moncada and Benintendi for Sale; and 2) makes me think this is a framework that should have led to a deal getting done for Q.

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QUOTE (bmags @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 10:13 PM)
That's a promising start though. A better GM could have probably worked it.

They're one prospect (not Moncada, probably Devers) from completing the deal. That's not as far apart as I would have imagined.

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I just got home from work and there's so many new posts on here. Has anybody from the front office said anything about not making any deals today?

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The trading deadline is a deadline designed for play-off bound teams, it is not meant for .500-ish teams to quickly rebuild for the stretch run or to reload for next season. I didn't see any other team's ace pitcher garner the attention that Sale did. Why, because of a silly tantrum? No reason whatsoever for the Sox to jump at trade offers unless those offers were compelling.

Anyway, some of our players will go on waiver wire deals this year and hopefully that will satisfy those in the rebuild it camp, at least until we reach Hot Stove time when a few more trades will be made.

 

"The dichotomy with the Northside couldn't be more obvious. We're almost completely irrelevant."

 

Who is we? Irrelevant to whom? Cub fans?

LOL. This is so transparent....

 

 

Edited by miracleon35th

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QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 06:55 AM)
The trading deadline is a deadline designed for play-off bound teams, it is not meant for .500-ish teams to quickly rebuild for the stretch run or to reload for next season. I didn't see any other team's ace pitcher garner the attention that Sale did. Why, because of a silly tantrum? No reason whatsoever for the Sox to jump at trade offers unless those offers were compelling.

Anyway, some of our players will go on waiver wire deals this year and hopefully that will satisfy those in the rebuild it camp, at least until we reach Hot Stove time when a few more trades will be made.

Like the one poster said we DEFINITELY were late to the party. Trades could and should have been made a long time ago. Anybody with a baseball brain knew we were toast at least after blowing 3 straight games in KC to an average to lousy Royals team. Sox have nobody who can figure out if a team is a contender or not. Geez, I wish we had somebody like Bill James to tell the front office we didn't have a contender. Coulda traded Robertson to start the ball rolling a month or more ago.

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QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 02:01 PM)
Mired in front office incompetence. Why is David Robertson still on the roster?? Why are Miguel Gonzalez, James Shields, Melky, etc. still on the roster??

JUst saw Buster Olney on ESPN this morning reviewing yesterday's trades, and he closed with a bit on White Sox, saying they have a chain of command issue, which is a real problem. Unquote.

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QUOTE (oldsox @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 06:29 AM)
JUst saw Buster Olney on ESPN this morning reviewing yesterday's trades, and he closed with a bit on White Sox, saying they have a chain of command issue, which is a real problem. Unquote.

Sox do first words out of Hahn's mouth was "We were not close on anything I could take to Jerry". F'N sell Jerry

Edited by Soxfest

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QUOTE (ewokpelts @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 05:08 AM)
This franchise is a joke.

Lack of consequences and incompetence best exemplifies the current state of the White Sox organization. I'm starting to wonder if JR even wants to win? Apparently the White Sox are afraid to sell high on any of their veterans. I remember 2014, they had a golden opportunity to trade Alexei Ramirez away to the LA Dodgers for an impressive return of prospects. They decided to keep him and randomly Go For It prematurely in 2015. Alexei has a horrible 2015 season and he leaves for nothing via free agency the following year. As a GM you cannot let this happen. Know your damn team and finally value your farm system.

Sale and Q aside, they could have traded Melky, Frazier, Robertson, Lawrie, Shields and Gonzalez for solid return packages. They could have sold very high on Adam Eaton who is having a tremendous season. I can understand holding onto Abreu because of his down season... But come on! Do your job as a GM! I'm starting to get the vibe that they won't sell anybody this winter, in fact they will try to retool and piece together another roster full of veterans and give it another 'Go' in 2017. This makes me wonder if they are all indeed insane. They have the same approach every year and it fails every time. I'm pretty sure that's the definition of insanity, so my conclusion to this hot mess is: Jerry and his puppets-- KW & Hahn are all certifiably insane.

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QUOTE (Kalapse @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 03:46 PM)
Not surprising, more confusing. They can make a decision that goes against the collective vision of the fanbase but what exactly is thier vision? Because I have no idea. Good luck trying to turn around a perpetually .500 team with zero minor league or financial resources without selling off ML assets. I'm f***ing bored.

 

I'm bored too -- I get it, I really do.

 

But if you take a step back and look at the situation and the options, the roster is built to push through 2017. I have no doubt that Hahn considered changing that course after his "mired in mediocrity" statement, but I have to assume that teams were not willing to pay up. Rather than make a bad deal simply for the sake of changing something, there's an argument to be made to let things play out. I'm sure he could have moved some relievers and role players, but if the returns aren't meaningful, there's value in retaining the flexibility of competing in 2017 into this offseason, where I have no doubt that he'll try to see what he can get out of Sale/Quintana again.

 

For those asking "what can possibly be done to improve the team's chances in 2017," it starts with Abreu being Abreu, Frazier being Frazier, and Rodon finally turning into Rodon. Those guys have been bad, but there doesn't appear to be any physical reason, and the reality is just that sometimes guys have bad years. Remember when David Ortiz was cooked? Remember when Carlos Beltran was useless? Remember when it was ridiculous to acquire John Lackey? There are a ton of examples of teams giving up on good players only to see them flourish later, often elsewhere. We're all real good at coming up with convenient ad hoc explanations like "toxic clubhouse" or "new training program" or "obvious contract year effort" and other unsubstantiated, random crap, but when we do that, we're ignoring the fact that baseball is a competition where two really good players are doing everything they can to stop the other from succeeding, and no matter how much talent there is, one of them ALWAYS has to lose. Team sports aren't just coming in and pushing buttons -- sometimes you simply get beat.

 

If any those players simply did what was reasonably expected, we'd probably be a couple games over .500. If ALL of them simply did what they were reasonably expected, we'd be in the thick of the playoff hunt. Is the consistent disappointment of the team a systemic problem of the organization? Maybe. But if you're Rick Hahn, you're not going to fire yourself. You're going to do what ALL of us do every day: you're going to assume you're capable of doing your job, and make the best decision you can given the hand in front of you.

 

It's totally fair to be disappointed and upset -- I am too. But the decision to hold onto controllable assets into this offseason is absolutely a defensible decision, even if it's boring and feels bad. It very well may turn out to be the wrong one (assuming the offers on the table were what we think), and you certainly DON'T have to like it or agree with it, but it's a far cry from obvious incompetence.

 

In case anyone doesn't know about it, this is an awesome resource for when you want to start taking stock of the offseason: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GZ9...pub?output=html

 

Note the contracts that come off the books after next season: Melky, Frazier, Lawrie, Gonzalez. If we fail next year, all those guys will be hot deadline chips. Shields and Robertson will each have ~1.5yr/~$15m remaining, and will also be good chips if they're pitching well. Jones and Jennings will still have multiple years of control remaining. Sale and Quintana will be essentially JUST as valuable, but the team will be in a clearer position to sell.

 

And that's IF we fail. Those aforementioned bouncebacks could get us most of the way to contention, and I'm assuming Avisail Garcia will FINALLY be non-tendered, so we may just have a shot. The offseason shopping list is clear and achievable: catcher, first base/DH, corner OF.

 

 

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QUOTE (Kalapse @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 05:33 PM)
Regardless of everything that transpired "mired in mediocrity" was a misstep.

 

I diagree. It at least demonstrated that Hahn feels the same way about things that most reasonable fans do, at the end of the day he was not able to do anything to improve it. I appreciate the honesty at least.

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QUOTE (oldsox @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 06:29 AM)
JUst saw Buster Olney on ESPN this morning reviewing yesterday's trades, and he closed with a bit on White Sox, saying they have a chain of command issue, which is a real problem. Unquote.

 

There is KW rearing his head again. Hahn probably needs to go and find a place where he can be free to operate as a GM without KW's ego getting in the way.

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