Jump to content
Jose Abreu

Trade Deadline: Sox Make No Moves

Recommended Posts

Just heard from a second source who was told the same thing, JR does not want a rebuild and unless that changes it simply won't happen.

 

Mark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 12:50 PM)
Just heard from a second source who was told the same thing, JR does not want a rebuild and unless that changes it simply won't happen.

 

Mark

So do you think there is any reason to watch/listen/care about the White Sox as long as JR is around?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 12:45 PM)
You are right. Proof positive. Could you imagine what Atlanta could have received for Shelby Miller if they would have just traded him last deadline as opposed to the winter?

 

These guys are so stupid, they should listen to message boards. Who cares what the offers are, if they are going to give you pennies on the dollar, take the pennies because message board posters love prospects until they suck for a week, then they are despicable.

 

Just remember listening to fans regarding personnel will lead you to bad things. Someone bumped a Bonafacio thread from last year a couple of months ago, and there was a post by someone that no one should complain about Hahn as he did what Soxtalk wanted him to do. Well, that didn't work out, and not only did it become not what Soxtalk. it wasn't even Hahn. It was all Kenny Williams.

 

Basically, most of the people complaining wanted a trade just to make a trade. What good does it do to trade Melky or Robertson for another Avi Garcia (who many were extremely high on btw) .

 

See what's out there this winter. I think either they trade a couple of these guys away, or JR is going to jack up the payroll. I think the half assed approach is over. At least I hope so.

 

While you are busy telling fans how wrong they are, you can sit here with a straight face and tell me you believe the last sentence you wrote?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (shakes @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 12:52 PM)
While you are busy telling fans how wrong they are, you can sit here with a straight face and tell me you believe the last sentence you wrote?

Yes I do.

 

Besides, the White Sox aren't as bad as most want to make them. They are right around .500. You would think reading most posts, they are a 120 loss team. And everyone they could have traded yesterday to make people happy, they can trade after the season.

 

I was disappointed they didn't make any moves, but I want them to get better and win. The amount of fans pissed off they think the Sox will try to win next year is crazy. These same people, if the Sox traded everyone away and had guys like Shuck and Coats playing everyday, would still be complaining. It's what they love to do. Just look at their posts. Even when the Sox win they aren't happy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 12:50 PM)
Just heard from a second source who was told the same thing, JR does not want a rebuild and unless that changes it simply won't happen.

 

Mark

 

And while people keep saying the chain of command isn't clear, to me, it is very clear.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 12:58 PM)
Yes I do.

 

Besides, the White Sox aren't as bad as most want to make them. They are right around .500. You would think reading most posts, they are a 120 loss team. And everyone they could have traded yesterday to make people happy, they can trade after the season.

 

I was disappointed they didn't make any moves, but I want them to get better and win. The amount of fans pissed off they think the Sox will try to win next year is crazy. These same people, if the Sox traded everyone away and had guys like Shuck and Coats playing everyday, would still be complaining. It's what they love to do. Just look at their posts. Even when the Sox win they aren't happy.

 

Yep

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 11:45 AM)
You are right. Proof positive. Could you imagine what Atlanta could have received for Shelby Miller if they would have just traded him last deadline as opposed to the winter?

 

These guys are so stupid, they should listen to message boards. Who cares what the offers are, if they are going to give you pennies on the dollar, take the pennies because message board posters love prospects until they suck for a week, then they are despicable.

 

Just remember listening to fans regarding personnel will lead you to bad things. Someone bumped a Bonafacio thread from last year a couple of months ago, and there was a post by someone that no one should complain about Hahn as he did what Soxtalk wanted him to do. Well, that didn't work out, and not only did it become not what Soxtalk. it wasn't even Hahn. It was all Kenny Williams.

 

Basically, most of the people complaining wanted a trade just to make a trade. What good does it do to trade Melky or Robertson for another Avi Garcia (who many were extremely high on btw) .

 

See what's out there this winter. I think either they trade a couple of these guys away, or JR is going to jack up the payroll. I think the half assed approach is over. At least I hope so.

Whimisical meanderings of a message board poster.

Edited by Thad Bosley

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 12:58 PM)
Yes I do.

 

Besides, the White Sox aren't as bad as most want to make them. They are right around .500. You would think reading most posts, they are a 120 loss team. And everyone they could have traded yesterday to make people happy, they can trade after the season.

I was disappointed they didn't make any moves, but I want them to get better and win. The amount of fans pissed off they think the Sox will try to win next year is crazy. These same people, if the Sox traded everyone away and had guys like Shuck and Coats playing everyday, would still be complaining. It's what they love to do. Just look at their posts. Even when the Sox win they aren't happy.

Most of us doubt that this will happen. I'll bet my house it doesn't.

 

They will retool and give it another ill-advised shot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 11:52 AM)
So do you think there is any reason to watch/listen/care about the White Sox as long as JR is around?

Stop trying to turn the frustration of the fanbase on the futility of the octogenarian owner and his management team on the fans.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (shysocks @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 01:06 PM)
Most of us doubt that this will happen. I'll bet my house it doesn't.

 

They will retool and give it another ill-advised shot.

 

you forgot to log into your greg account

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 01:09 PM)
you forgot to log into your greg account

Just in a gambling mood today.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Sox are a sub-.500 team, have been for 6 out of the last 9 years and have zero seasons at or above 90 wins in that period. On average, they're a 78 win team since 2007.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My best guess as to what happens in the off season:

 

They trade Quintana for what most consider to be an underwhelming package but it has a lot of major league and major league ready talent in it. They then add to this with some scrap heap reclamation project type veterans on 1 year deals and proceed to try to catch lightning in a bottle one more year.

Edited by gatnom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 02:05 PM)
The Sox are a sub-.500 team, have been for 6 out of the last 9 years and have zero seasons at or above 90 wins in that period. On average, they're a 78 win team since 2007.

When the Pirates rebuilt, they went 20 consecutive seasons without winning 80 games.

 

Sure, the Sox can trade all of their good players for prospects, but how does that guarantee the team is better, let alone "fixed" ready to be in the playoffs 4 or 5 years in a row?

 

Until we know what exactly was offered for White Sox players, I am a guy who can't say they made a mistake not trading them. There was a poster yesterday who said the return on any of these players had nothing to do with it. I think it has everything to do with it. They can still be traded, or maybe they won't.

 

 

Until then, we have to watch Q and Sale pitch instead of a guy like Volstad. We have to watch Melky hit instead of a guy like Coats. We have to watch Robertson and less of lesser pitchers. I really don't have a problem with it. I will judge the team next year next year, not now. If they half ass it again, I'm with you, but I think they have learned their lesson. They are either going big or dealing guys away. I also wouldn't be surprised if a player or 2 is dealt this month. Maybe that will ease some pain. The Sox could get another Leury Garcia or 2 and the rebuild will be well underway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (Tony @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 02:19 PM)
And the last 10 years of White Sox baseball has gotten fans....what exactly?

The same as most teams. I know White Sox fans are owed more than any other fanbase, but what you are arguing is 'why would they try to win?" You haven't made the playoffs in 8 years. Quit trying to win" Lose, lose, lose. Get a bunch of prospects. It's fool proof, and don't hold out for the best price. Just take what you can get.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But the problem with the Pirates wasn't that they tried to rebuild, it's that they had poor management. Our management is not trying to rebuild and fielding a mediocre team for years because of poor management. You are identifying the strategy of trying to acquire a bunch of young talent as the cause of the problem, but really it's the poor management.

 

The correct move right now would be to rebuild. We aren't rebuilding not because it is the right decision because Pirates, but because we have a front office that is scared of their own shadows. They'd rather fail when aesthetically it looks like they tried vs failing when they "gave up".

 

So to your inevitable retort that "why would you want to rebuild with bad management", had we started to rebuild it would be a sign that they were starting to do things correctly. But because they are not, we can continue to assume that they are not the team that can find the playoffs.

 

It's a great situation to be in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 02:16 PM)
When the Pirates rebuilt, they went 20 consecutive seasons without winning 80 games.

 

Sure, the Sox can trade all of their good players for prospects, but how does that guarantee the team is better, let alone "fixed" ready to be in the playoffs 4 or 5 years in a row?

 

Until we know what exactly was offered for White Sox players, I am a guy who can't say they made a mistake not trading them. There was a poster yesterday who said the return on any of these players had nothing to do with it. I think it has everything to do with it. They can still be traded, or maybe they won't.

 

 

Until then, we have to watch Q and Sale pitch instead of a guy like Volstad. We have to watch Melky hit instead of a guy like Coats. We have to watch Robertson and less of lesser pitchers. I really don't have a problem with it. I will judge the team next year next year, not now. If they half ass it again, I'm with you, but I think they have learned their lesson. They are either going big or dealing guys away. I also wouldn't be surprised if a player or 2 is dealt this month. Maybe that will ease some pain. The Sox could get another Leury Garcia or 2 and the rebuild will be well underway.

You know why I can say they made a mistake? Because that's all they've done for a decade now. You and anyone else can take the wait and see approach but I've been waiting and seeing for 11 f***in years now and I know exactly how this turns out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 02:16 PM)
When the Pirates rebuilt, they went 20 consecutive seasons without winning 80 games.

 

Sure, the Sox can trade all of their good players for prospects, but how does that guarantee the team is better, let alone "fixed" ready to be in the playoffs 4 or 5 years in a row?

 

Until we know what exactly was offered for White Sox players, I am a guy who can't say they made a mistake not trading them. There was a poster yesterday who said the return on any of these players had nothing to do with it. I think it has everything to do with it. They can still be traded, or maybe they won't.

 

 

Until then, we have to watch Q and Sale pitch instead of a guy like Volstad. We have to watch Melky hit instead of a guy like Coats. We have to watch Robertson and less of lesser pitchers. I really don't have a problem with it. I will judge the team next year next year, not now. If they half ass it again, I'm with you, but I think they have learned their lesson. They are either going big or dealing guys away. I also wouldn't be surprised if a player or 2 is dealt this month. Maybe that will ease some pain. The Sox could get another Leury Garcia or 2 and the rebuild will be well underway.

 

Cool, I like forward to many more seasons of ~78 wins.

 

re: the bolded, identical post could have been made last year. Year before. Year before that. etc.

Edited by StrangeSox

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 02:25 PM)
The same as most teams. I know White Sox fans are owed more than any other fanbase, but what you are arguing is 'why would they try to win?" You haven't made the playoffs in 8 years. Quit trying to win" Lose, lose, lose. Get a bunch of prospects. It's fool proof, and don't hold out for the best price. Just take what you can get.

 

Menu tonight: Meatball sub

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (bmags @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 02:28 PM)
Menu tonight: Meatball sub

The Pirates took a long time to stop sucking, this proves that rebuilding is bad and the White Sox can do nothing but be mired in mediocrity forever, they have no choice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 02:16 PM)
When the Pirates rebuilt, they went 20 consecutive seasons without winning 80 games.

 

Sure, the Sox can trade all of their good players for prospects, but how does that guarantee the team is better, let alone "fixed" ready to be in the playoffs 4 or 5 years in a row?

 

Until we know what exactly was offered for White Sox players, I am a guy who can't say they made a mistake not trading them. There was a poster yesterday who said the return on any of these players had nothing to do with it. I think it has everything to do with it. They can still be traded, or maybe they won't.

 

 

Until then, we have to watch Q and Sale pitch instead of a guy like Volstad. We have to watch Melky hit instead of a guy like Coats. We have to watch Robertson and less of lesser pitchers. I really don't have a problem with it. I will judge the team next year next year, not now. If they half ass it again, I'm with you, but I think they have learned their lesson. They are either going big or dealing guys away. I also wouldn't be surprised if a player or 2 is dealt this month. Maybe that will ease some pain. The Sox could get another Leury Garcia or 2 and the rebuild will be well underway.

 

This is classic DA

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 02:25 PM)
The same as most teams. I know White Sox fans are owed more than any other fanbase, but what you are arguing is 'why would they try to win?" You haven't made the playoffs in 8 years. Quit trying to win" Lose, lose, lose. Get a bunch of prospects. It's fool proof, and don't hold out for the best price. Just take what you can get.

Since 2006, there's literally 5 teams including the Sox who don't have at least 2 playoff appearances. Two of those are the Blue Jays and Astros who can get out of that category this season. But yes, we're just entitled morons who can't see this awesome product that the organization has given us for the last decade!

Edited by Rowand44

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (bmags @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 02:26 PM)
But the problem with the Pirates wasn't that they tried to rebuild, it's that they had poor management. Our management is not trying to rebuild and fielding a mediocre team for years because of poor management. You are identifying the strategy of trying to acquire a bunch of young talent as the cause of the problem, but really it's the poor management.

 

The correct move right now would be to rebuild. We aren't rebuilding not because it is the right decision because Pirates, but because we have a front office that is scared of their own shadows. They'd rather fail when aesthetically it looks like they tried vs failing when they "gave up".

 

So to your inevitable retort that "why would you want to rebuild with bad management", had we started to rebuild it would be a sign that they were starting to do things correctly. But because they are not, we can continue to assume that they are not the team that can find the playoffs.

 

It's a great situation to be in.

No, it's that prospects bust. Very rarely does it work out trading a star for a bunch of prospects. It does occasionally, and these 2 are different. They have years of control. It's not like they are going to be a free agent in a couple of months or another year. People were excited about Avi when he was acquired. Many were excited about Davidson. A lot of people thought Hawkins would be a stud. People are already down on Fulmer. It's not just the White Sox who have prospects that bust. Every team does. Look at the top 10s from 5 or 6 years ago and they don't look as good now for the most part.

 

That's why they cannot settle. You miss on the prospect package for Sale and Q, you just set your team back a lot more years. Being very careful with this should be applauded not ripped apart. Maybe they are going to rebuild. Is there really a big difference if they waited until the offseason as opposed to now? You make it seem like it's now past the point of no return, if they were going to rebuild, these guys had to be gone.

 

Besides, how can the Sox have so many players that have value of top prospects, yet be a team that is destined to be awful?

 

 

And if trading away all your pieces is a sign of good management, how is it, if you don't think these guys know talent, you want them trading all of your worthwhile pieces? You want to talk setting a franchise back a decade or so, it would be getting what turns out to crap back for these guys.

Edited by Dick Allen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Prospects suck and are likely to bust out, better to keep doubling down on signing past-their-prime veterans and rebuilding reloading around a core of 2 pitchers.

Edited by StrangeSox

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×