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Is this a PR Disaster for the Sox?

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I knew something was up when Sale lit in to KW on-air after the LaRoche fiasco. I've never seen a player go after a team president like that while still playing for him. That's when I knew something was quite wrong.

 

A great April of course makes everything disappear--until it stopped being great.

 

Sale even took a shot at Ventura recently (after the jersey thing)--what that shows me is that the elite players (all two or three of them) know that they're surrounded by incompetence and it's harder and harder to tolerate it anymore.

 

I feel for Sale--he's spending his glory years on a team that has absolutely no chance to do anything. I'd be mad too.

 

As for nothing happening at the trade deadline, not a shock. A blowup would mean management admitting failure--something they have never done. There was no big splash to be made to make us instant contenders, so they basically just sat there and made some meaningless trade.

 

Pathetic. If this team goes away because of this mismanagement, I will always blame JR--I don't care if we won in 2005.

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QUOTE (WBWSF @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 11:53 AM)
No!!!! All they have to do is get hot the next 2 months and get into the 2016 Playoffs. Once that happens everything will be fine.

 

you forgot the green text.

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QUOTE (LVSoxFan @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 11:54 AM)
I knew something was up when Sale lit in to KW on-air after the LaRoche fiasco. I've never seen a player go after a team president like that while still playing for him. That's when I knew something was quite wrong.

 

A great April of course makes everything disappear--until it stopped being great.

 

Sale even took a shot at Ventura recently (after the jersey thing)--what that shows me is that the elite players (all two or three of them) know that they're surrounded by incompetence and it's harder and harder to tolerate it anymore.

 

No, these incidents both involve Sale and show that Sale is a childish idiot.

 

Recall that Sale got into a shouting match with Kenny Williams during his rookie year because Kenny wanted to use Sale as a closer. Sale throws temper-tantrums when he doesn't get his way, and I can't wait until he's traded for a package of young, talented players.

 

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The Sox are one of the oldest franchises in major league baseball, a team that defeated the Cubs in the World Series in 1906, and has won the World Series twice sionce then including one 11 years ago.

Never forget, the last time we heard this kind of talk about the Cubs taking over the entire Chicago metro area was in the Fall of 2003, just before the NLCS.

LOL! And how did the Cubs do in the Mets series in last years NLCS?

Swept! O for 4.

Yes, indeed, things can turn around rather quickly in sports. Does anyone think the Yankees and Dodgers or the Giants and Cardinals will ever stay down for very long?

 

Stop all the hand wringing, finger pointing and worst of all the false outrage from pseudo Sox fans (aka Cub fans).

 

Go to a game with friends, tail gate and have a good time. If you are a fair weather fan, , take your s---- to the Northside and leave Sox fans alone. Enough of the piling on. This has gotten way old. Get a life and move the ____ on.

Edited by miracleon35th

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I don't think they will ever move, but there is no doubt a HUGE chasm between the fanbase and the organization now. Can you believe there were fans calling out other fans this season for not showing up? Where are those people now? Reality finally setting in that no one wants to throw their money away on a s***ty product?

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QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 11:32 AM)
Outside of barely squeaking into the playoffs in '08, they've been pretty mediocre or worse for almost a decade now. How many more years of garbage can we expect before they're relevant again? How much better could things have been if they hadn't tried the same bad plan for years and years?

 

They are going to try the same bad plan again in 2017 it appears. They will hope that Abreu bounces back, Frazier gets his average/OBP up, Anderson and Rodon continue to improve and not regress, Shields and Gonzo can hold up the end of the rotation, and that Q and Sale continue to dominate and avoid the injury bug.

 

The re-tooling and hoping will most likely not work. The rebuilding will then begin in earnest at the trade deadline next year. I know it's a pipe-dream, but I would like a totally new front office to handle the rebuild. Hopefully the Sox can be competitive again by 2019-2020.

 

Things obviously could have been much better since 2008, but this organization is too stubborn to stick with any sort of logical plan. Hahn and company really screwed up in the offseason prior to 2015.

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The White Sox Post Ron Schueler:

- Don't overvalue prospects because many don't pan out. In fact, don't even bother with the farm, most prospects fail. Prospects fail a lot. Have I told you about how prospects fail? Sox used to have #1 farm system, what did that get them? Lorenzo Barcelo sucked!

- Don't sign pitchers to long-term expensive deals. In fact, don't sign anyone to long-term expensive deals. You can find plenty of talent on reasonable deals, you just need to sign past their prime, older players coming off career worst years and hope they rebound. It works less than 10% of the time, but when it does! You can then hold onto them until they start to suck again and then hope they retire.

- You are always in it. Don't compare your roster to other teams, that's a losers mindset. Compare your roster to only last years roster. Is it better? Then you are in the playoffs, probably. Teams make 15 game leaps all the time, especially when they replace below average players with average ones. Resist urges to sell. You had a bad run of luck, remember the white flag trade? Fans were mad for a whole 2 years. Selling just gets you prospects, and see point 1.

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Speaking just for myself? This is the lowest I've been. I refuse to make time in my schedule to watch games. If Sale is pitching or it's 3-2 in the 8th maybe I'll turn the TV on. Other than that? Done.

 

BUT all of that won't happen until the Sox demote Avi to AAA. I've made a pact with myself to watch no more Sox game until he gets what he deserves.

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QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 11:13 AM)
The Sox are one of the oldest franchises in major league baseball, a team that defeated the Cubs in the World Series in 1906, and has won the World Series twice sionce then including one 11 years ago.

Never forget, the last time we heard this kind of talk about the Cubs taking over the entire Chicago metro area was in the Fall of 2003, just before the NLCS.

LOL! And how did the Cubs do in the Mets series in last years NLCS?

Swept! O for 4.

Yes, indeed, things can turn around rather quickly in sports. Does anyone think the Yankees and Dodgers or the Giants and Cardinals will ever stay down for very long?

 

Stop all the hand wringing, finger pointing and worst of all the false outrage from pseudo Sox fans (aka Cub fans).

 

Go to a game with friends, tail gate and have a good time. If you are a fair weather fan, , take your s---- to the Northside and leave Sox fans alone. Enough of the piling on. This has gotten way old. Get a life and move the ____ on.

 

I agree with one thing you wrote...yes it has gotten old. The losing, the mismanagement the failing to make the postseason.

 

All of that is true in my opinion.

 

Mark

 

 

 

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QUOTE (Dunt @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 12:17 PM)
I don't think they will ever move, but there is no doubt a HUGE chasm between the fanbase and the organization now. Can you believe there were fans calling out other fans this season for not showing up? Where are those people now? Reality finally setting in that no one wants to throw their money away on a s***ty product?

 

Remember when people were trying to say that Sox fans weren't bitter and angry...

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Yes this is a PR disaster. Ownership and front office need to take a deep breath and look at themselves in the mirror the rest of the season. Then they need pick a direction and be aggressive. No more half assed off-seasons. It's time to rebuild and load up the farm system from the returns of Sale and Quintana. Then hope we get bounce back seasons from Abreu and Frazier and move them at the deadline.

 

I want an all new coaching staff. Fresh blood and a manager who knows what he's doing and is a leader of men. This clubhouse is a clown show with RV leading the way. It's time to fix this and get the team back to truly competing. Then you'll see the fan base back. I hate to use an NFL analogy but the Sox are like the Chiefs in 2012. Everyone hated the front office and started boycotting games after the fans had the funeral of the team (fans wore all black to a game to represent the death of the team). That got ownership's attention and he became aggressive and fixed things with a great head coach and front office. He also held a meeting with season ticket holders to hear their say. This fan base has had enough of this s***. Attendance isn't going to get better if JR keeps with the status quo. I'm losing my optimism with this franchise. I really hope there's some wholesale changes and they rebuild. If not, I'll just ignore the team until the owner dies and a new owner takes over who wants to really be a contender and win.

Edited by SouthSideSale

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QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 04:02 PM)
No.

 

Concise and to the point and correct. You don't give away your core group of players for peanuts just to placate a segment I'd the fan base that melts down after every bad play, every caught stealing, every hit allowed or every loss.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 07:02 PM)
Remember when people were trying to say that Sox fans weren't bitter and angry...

 

It was a trick

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QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 02:25 PM)
Concise and to the point and correct. You don't give away your core group of players for peanuts just to placate a segment I'd the fan base that melts down after every bad play, every caught stealing, every hit allowed or every loss.

 

Its much better to continue the same course of action and hope for division wide regression and for the annual retread/player over 30 to do their thing on the back of the card and hope for the best. Its really a simple thing. You either have to develop talent in the farm system via the draft and international signing period and then develop them or spend gobs of money on free agents. You cant ignore both and hope that everyone around you fails just enough to squeak out a winning season. Enjoy the 77 to 84 win seasons for the next decade if thats our plan.

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QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 12:13 PM)
The Sox are one of the oldest franchises in major league baseball, a team that defeated the Cubs in the World Series in 1906, and has won the World Series twice sionce then including one 11 years ago.

Never forget, the last time we heard this kind of talk about the Cubs taking over the entire Chicago metro area was in the Fall of 2003, just before the NLCS.

LOL! And how did the Cubs do in the Mets series in last years NLCS?

Swept! O for 4.

Yes, indeed, things can turn around rather quickly in sports. Does anyone think the Yankees and Dodgers or the Giants and Cardinals will ever stay down for very long?

 

Stop all the hand wringing, finger pointing and worst of all the false outrage from pseudo Sox fans (aka Cub fans).

 

Go to a game with friends, tail gate and have a good time. If you are a fair weather fan, , take your s---- to the Northside and leave Sox fans alone. Enough of the piling on. This has gotten way old. Get a life and move the ____ on.

 

Only a true Sox fan would make this a Cubs vs. Sox conversation. Right?

 

Do I think that the Sox will leave this city? No, probably not but I thought it was a valid point that the direction that this organization has been heading in from the top down the past decade has made it at least a possibility if you strecth your imagination just a bit. There is a dysfunction throughout the org that bothers me enough, even as a life long fan, that doesnt allow me to go on about my merry business and play bean bags before the game while I have a brawt in one hand and a beer in the other.

 

Why do you feel so threatened by conversation just because it may reflect poorly upon a baseball team we follow. Part of the problem with Sox nation is that there is this mentality that every one has that they are a better fan than the next because of ________. Just because you dont care to talk negatively about the Sox or hold the team accountable doesnt mean I should move to the northside, or stop posting my opinion, or find a life.

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I can't see how this is a PR disaster. Something to keep in mind is that Soxtalk posters are largely the 1% of the fanbase, in regards to org knowledge (roster, minors, FO, etc). To assume Jimbo McLunchbox is upset because the Sox DIDN'T trade his favorite player for 5 guys he's never heard of... is pretty ridiculous.

 

 

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QUOTE (Charlie Haeger's Knuckles @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 03:06 PM)
I can't see how this is a PR disaster. Something to keep in mind is that Soxtalk posters are largely the 1% of the fanbase, in regards to org knowledge (roster, minors, FO, etc). To assume Jimbo McLunchbox is upset because the Sox DIDN'T trade his favorite player for 5 guys he's never heard of... is pretty ridiculous.

 

I guess maybe I didnt clarify that collectively what has happened in the past few years has been a PR disaster with yesterday just being a small part of that PR disaster.

 

Yesterday alone definitely is something the public would forget about soon enough but everything that has happened over time? Nah I cant forget how messy this has all been. Its not just one guy either, its the whole damn thing.

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The last time I was this disengaged I honestly can't remember. I was thinking maybe like when I was in college in the early aughts but that's about it.

 

Hahn is either a moron for taking a GM job without full control or he's just a bad GM. Either way there's not much hope. I had hope when Hahn took over that things would be different but nothing has changed. IMO the org is still run almost exactly like how I'd expect KW to run it. Whether that's on Hahn or not remains to be seen but at the end of the day it really doesn't matter from our perspective as fans -- the club stinks, it doesn't really matter who is at fault.

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QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 03:13 PM)
The last time I was this disengaged I honestly can't remember. I was thinking maybe like when I was in college in the early aughts but that's about it.

 

Hahn is either a moron for taking a GM job without full control or he's just a bad GM. Either way there's not much hope. I had hope when Hahn took over that things would be different but nothing has changed. IMO the org is still run almost exactly like how I'd expect KW to run it. Whether that's on Hahn or not remains to be seen but at the end of the day it really doesn't matter from our perspective as fans -- the club stinks, it doesn't really matter who is at fault.

Says the guy who could not get enough of Avi Garcia and Carlos Sanchez.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 03:20 PM)
Says the guy who could not get enough of Avi Garcia and Carlos Sanchez.

 

Dick, besides you just trying to troll him what does that have to do with anything?

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 01:02 PM)
Remember when people were trying to say that Sox fans weren't bitter and angry...

 

Fan Shamer Exhibit A

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QUOTE (Dunt @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 04:04 PM)
Fan Shamer Exhibit A

 

It is too bad you guys don't read past your guilt. I am the one clearly saying if you don't like it, leave. I am also saying that you have to understand the nature of the fan base when talking about this franchise. Those two things are not mutually exclusive, nor shaming.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 04:25 PM)
It is too bad you guys don't read past your guilt. I am the one clearly saying if you don't like it, leave. I am also saying that you have to understand the nature of the fan base when talking about this franchise. Those two things are not mutually exclusive, nor shaming.

why should we let the current group of incompetent management drive us away from the team entirely?

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QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 04:28 PM)
why should we let the current group of incompetent management drive us away from the team entirely?

 

If it makes you bitter and angry, why is it worth it?

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QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 03:28 PM)
why should we let the current group of incompetent management drive us away from the team entirely?

 

If you can't buy the team from Reinsdorf's ownership group, there's not much that you can do about it.

 

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