New Ballpark Name

[southsider2k5]

Acccording to you, the franchise is in a funk because of it's lack of loyal fan support… if you're gonna switch lanes, kindly use your turn signal...

 

Also, never said that. I said that fan support makes a difference in resources available to the franchise. It would be nice if you were going to attribute things, if they were at least correct.

[Kyyle23]

Can anyone name a stadium name that is actually good? All this s*** sucks. This name is awful, like completely terrible but does it really bother you guys this much? Who gives a flying f***.

 

If Sasha hated this name, you would be raging at 35th and shields right now

[captain54]

But they aren't winning and they do suck and we've all been complaining about the product on the field for years and nothing has changed. This is just like an extra (albeit minor and silly) nut punch from a franchise going nowhere.

 

Man, you nailed it..

 

with the glow of 2005 completely faded and a fan base on a serious decline, consistently mainly of the diehards.. I think going nowhere would be about right…

 

a sports franchise is about image and perception (is this the cool place to be?)… in addition to an exciting product on the field. .

 

read some interviews with Andrew Berlin, one of the Sox investors and potential new owner… these are almost his exact words, verbatim..

 

 

 

 

[Rowand44]

If Sasha hated this name, you would be raging at 35th and shields right now

She has the exact same opinion as me, I asked her.

[Dick Allen]

Man, you nailed it..

 

with the glow of 2005 completely faded and a fan base on a serious decline, consistently mainly of the diehards.. I think going nowhere would be about right…

 

a sports franchise is about image and perception (is this the cool place to be?)… in addition to an exciting product on the field. .

 

read some interviews with Andrew Berlin, one of the Sox investors and potential new owner… these are almost his exact words, verbatim..

I think the vast majority of people who attend Sox games have a lot of fun. The name change isn't going to do anything to harm that. It may actually provide funds or new amenities to make it even better. As to the product on the field, it hasn't been up to par, everyone knows that. They are trying. No one is giving them a pass except for maybe the people who think Rick Hahn is somehow not responsible for anything. Things do have to change. The ironic thing is many fans complaining about the team not being competitive don't want them to even try to be competitive. They want them to trade all of their good players away, thinking that it will somehow guarantee a good 7 or 8 year run in 2 or 3 years. Which is based on models like the Cubs who are able to take proceeds from 3 million fans coming to the park during 95 loss seasons and spending wildly internationally and in the free agent market.

Edited August 25, 2016 by Dick Allen

[flavum]

I'll just be referring to it as "at home" or "the park". It's a terrible name with no easy nickname. Take the money, and let that be the end of it.

[chitownsportsfan]

Just because they aren't doing it the way YOU want it done is irrelevant. They have made a ton of moves the last few years, again, they just haven't worked out. They know there is a problem, and are trying to fix it. It just isn't the way that most people want to see. But they are trying.

 

this is a pretty low bar to clear at any job let alone one as well compensated and prestigious as leading an entity worth half a billion dollars or more.

[southsider2k5]

this is a pretty low bar to clear at any job let alone one as well compensated and prestigious as leading an entity worth half a billion dollars or more.

 

The original statement was that the team wasn't worrying about what was happening on the field. That is 100% false.

[Rowand44]

The ironic thing is many fans complaining about the team not being competitive don't want them to even try to be competitive.

Ya, this isn't true at all, it's just a silly argument.

[Dick Allen]

I'll just be referring to it as "at home" or "the park". It's a terrible name with no easy nickname. Take the money, and let that be the end of it.

I think it will eventually be the Rate or GRate. One I thought was good was the G spot.

[captain54]

Also, never said that. I said that fan support makes a difference in resources available to the franchise. It would be nice if you were going to attribute things, if they were at least correct.

 

For starters.. let's look at your comment from 7:12am today, to Lip:

 

"Reading what you post is completely different than what you just said"

 

Then we have your comment from 7:16 am today to Thad Bosley

 

"If the fanbase invests in the franchise, the franchise is better for it. If they don't, they are worse off. The results of the fan base are right in front of you.

 

Any reasonable person would assume a couple of things from this comment a) you personally have an extremely negative view of the Sox fan base b) the source of th e Sox woes are their whiny, disloyal, unfaithful fan base.

 

Your backpedaling is furious and impressive…I'll give you that.. You could generate the power necessary to supply the towns of Michigan City, all the up the Red Arrow HW to Sawyer, MI, with enough electricity for a year...

[SCCWS]

This is silly. Of course there is an incentive. Look at the revenues for 2006.

 

2006 followed a great year in 2005. Valuation jumped by $53 million. 2007 was a disaster and first losing season since 1999. So 2008 valuation jumped by $62 million. When a team continues to make money, some owners (sports or business) are very content to let it sail along. However, there are also owners that continually strive to improve the business. I live in Tampa part of the season and see a franchise that is constantly milking the situation and cutting costs rather than invest in the team. Then I spend part of the year in Boston. Unfortunately they aggressively try to improve the product. They make trades and fire coaches, managers, and front office when the product on the field is not meeting a high standard. I think JR is more a Tampa type owner than a Boston one. In fairness, his age may be the main reason he is content to put up with mediocrity.

[Dick Allen]

2006 followed a great year in 2005. Valuation jumped by $53 million. 2007 was a disaster and first losing season since 1999. So 2008 valuation jumped by $62 million. When a team continues to make money, some owners (sports or business) are very content to let it sail along. However, there are also owners that continually strive to improve the business. I live in Tampa part of the season and see a franchise that is constantly milking the situation and cutting costs rather than invest in the team. Then I spend part of the year in Boston. Unfortunately they aggressively try to improve the product. They make trades and fire coaches, managers, and front office when the product on the field is not meeting a high standard. I think JR is more a Tampa type owner than a Boston one. In fairness, his age may be the main reason he is content to put up with mediocrity.

I disagree. He has been criticized for going for it. Obviously, he doesn't pull an Illich and try to win no matter the cost, but he's usually bottom 5 in attendance, how often are they bottom 5 in payroll?

[LittleHurt05]

I think it will eventually be the Rate or GRate. One I thought was good was the G spot.

 

The bad attendance jokes write themselves with that one.

[southsider2k5]

For starters.. let's look at your comment from 7:12am today, to Lip:

 

"Reading what you post is completely different than what you just said"

 

Then we have your comment from 7:16 am today to Thad Bosley

 

"If the fanbase invests in the franchise, the franchise is better for it. If they don't, they are worse off. The results of the fan base are right in front of you.

 

Any reasonable person would assume a couple of things from this comment a) you personally have an extremely negative view of the Sox fan base b) the source of th e Sox woes are their whiny, disloyal, unfaithful fan base.

 

Your backpedaling is furious and impressive…I'll give you that.. You could generate the power necessary to supply the towns of Michigan City, all the up the Red Arrow HW to Sawyer, MI, with enough electricity for a year...

 

Way to take it out of context. The entire thread has been about the ballpark deal. That is exactly what that was about, and it was stated as such multiple times. With the I think Simone Biles would be impressed with the gymnastics you are going through here to turn this into something else.

[southsider2k5]

2006 followed a great year in 2005. Valuation jumped by $53 million. 2007 was a disaster and first losing season since 1999. So 2008 valuation jumped by $62 million. When a team continues to make money, some owners (sports or business) are very content to let it sail along. However, there are also owners that continually strive to improve the business. I live in Tampa part of the season and see a franchise that is constantly milking the situation and cutting costs rather than invest in the team. Then I spend part of the year in Boston. Unfortunately they aggressively try to improve the product. They make trades and fire coaches, managers, and front office when the product on the field is not meeting a high standard. I think JR is more a Tampa type owner than a Boston one. In fairness, his age may be the main reason he is content to put up with mediocrity.

 

The White Sox have made a ton of roster moves for years now. They are not content. Again, those moves haven't resulted in good results, but they haven't been content.

[captain54]

As to the product on the field, it hasn't been up to par, everyone knows that. They are trying.

 

I pretty much agree with everything you've said.. You make total sense... I have no argument, except for the fact that they are "trying"

 

"trying" in my eyes would mean serious evaluation and if need be, making people who are, and have been in positions of authority accountable for performance…

 

"trying" to make the ballpark a fun experience? I think they've accomplished that.. If they want to run the franchise like Great America and cater to a date night, family crowd.. that's fine… that's how it's been and they have their 26th out of 30 in MLB attendance and seem to be OK with that…

 

An elite, powerhouse of a ball club, that strikes fear into the hearts of the opponent, and is fitting for a major market city? JR has people in power that have been "trying" to do that and have failed.. it's time to give someone else a "try"

[Dick Allen]

I pretty much agree with everything you've said.. You make total sense... I have no argument, except for the fact that they are "trying"

 

"trying" in my eyes would mean serious evaluation and if need be, making people who are, and have been in positions of authority accountable for performance…

 

"trying" to make the ballpark a fun experience? I think they've accomplished that.. If they want to run the franchise like Great America and cater to a date night, family crowd.. that's fine… that's how it's been and they have their 26th out of 30 in MLB attendance and seem to be OK with that…

 

An elite, powerhouse of a ball club, that strikes fear into the hearts of the opponent, and is fitting for a major market city? JR has people in power that have been "trying" to do that and have failed.. it's time to give someone else a "try"

The effort is there. If you think they need a new crew making decisions, I can't argue with you there. If you say you have no desire to attend any more games the rest of the season, I can't argue with you there. That's fine. All I am saying is the effort to win is there, the effort to make going to the game enjoyable whether the team wins or not is there, whether it's executed to everyone's preferred level is up to each individual. I guess what I am getting at is you can't expect the Sox to do what the Cubs do. Their fanbase, by showing up no matter what, allows them to do what the Sox will not be allowed to do unless their ownership is willing to eat a huge loss or suddenly people change and start coming to games no matter what. I don't blame people for not coming, but not coming means tougher times. If JR replaces KW and RH, I wouldn't shed any tears, but from the sounds of it, that isn't happening, so we have to hope that this is the offseason where their plans actually work.

 

The White Sox do a good job catering to families. Ricketts was quoted a year or so ago saying the Cubs really need to get better at that. So who knows, maybe while it doesn't show much now, maybe down the road it pays off.

Edited August 25, 2016 by Dick Allen

[captain54]

Way to take it out of context. The entire thread has been about the ballpark deal. That is exactly what that was about, and it was stated as such multiple times. With the I think Simone Biles would be impressed with the gymnastics you are going through here to turn this into something else.

 

The gymnastics I am going thru is trying to debate in circles with you….

 

one more time.. your comment from 7:16 am today...

 

Eh, you can rationalize this all you want, but you are still missing the essential truth at the base of it all. If the fanbase invests in the franchise, the franchise is better for it. If they don't, they are worse off. The results of the fan base are right in front of you.

 

The thread may have been about the ballpark deal, but you CLEARLY are taking an opportunity for another dig at the Sox fanbase….

[captain54]

If JR replaces KW and RH, I wouldn't shed any tears, but from the sounds of it, that isn't happening, so we have to hope that this is the offseason where their plans actually work.

 

Every year, it's a roll of the dice.. the fan base is tired of it… the roster has been turned over numerous times in the last few years and have produced ZERO results..

 

which gets back to the "trying" issue again.. by maintaining the status quo in the organization, despite the results, it sends a message to the fan base that you are tolerating mediocrity….

 

 

[southsider2k5]

The gymnastics I am going thru is trying to debate in circles with you….

 

one more time.. your comment from 7:16 am today...

 

Eh, you can rationalize this all you want, but you are still missing the essential truth at the base of it all. If the fanbase invests in the franchise, the franchise is better for it. If they don't, they are worse off. The results of the fan base are right in front of you.

 

The thread may have been about the ballpark deal, but you CLEARLY are taking an opportunity for another dig at the Sox fanbase….

 

You obviously take offense to anything resembling discussion about the fan base. I understand that, as I see people bothered by it all of the time. What it does not change is the truth. The White Sox would not be signing a third rate ballpark naming rights deal if the Sox fan base was more loyal. I know it hurts your feelings, but it is the honest to god truth. What I have never done is make a judgement of what the fans should or should not do. All of that is the manifestation of someone who is working harder than most at being offended.

[southsider2k5]

Every year, it's a roll of the dice.. the fan base is tired of it… the roster has been turned over numerous times in the last few years and have produced ZERO results..

 

which gets back to the "trying" issue again.. by maintaining the status quo in the organization, despite the results, it sends a message to the fan base that you are tolerating mediocrity….

 

Now if you want a real example of arguing with yourself...

[Dick Allen]

Every year, it's a roll of the dice.. the fan base is tired of it… the roster has been turned over numerous times in the last few years and have produced ZERO results..

 

which gets back to the "trying" issue again.. by maintaining the status quo in the organization, despite the results, it sends a message to the fan base that you are tolerating mediocrity….

I agree someone else at this point should probably be making baseball decisions, but the amount of changes made in recent years indicates they are not tolerating mediocrity. They are trying to overcome it. If they were tolerating it, they would keep the same players around year after year.

[Hatchetman]

What's the Sox fan loyal metric, about 2.4? I'm just looking for the truth here. No subjectivity.

[Balta1701]

I agree someone else at this point should probably be making baseball decisions, but the amount of changes made in recent years indicates they are not tolerating mediocrity. They are trying to overcome it. If they were tolerating it, they would keep the same players around year after year.

They're unwilling to tolerate it from the players, but they're perfectly ok with it from management as long as they make an enthusiastic presentation at the end of the year explaining why it wasn't their fault.