Jump to content
Kyyle23

Jon Heyman: Sox have little interest in moving Sale or Quintana

Recommended Posts

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 6, 2016 -> 07:05 PM)
I was hoping they'd give it one more crack before starting the rebuild but I guess everyone here gets what they want now. Should see a surge in attendance the next few years since this is what everyone wants to see. Yippee another 5 years of sub .500 baseball

I agree

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 6, 2016 -> 07:05 PM)
I was hoping they'd give it one more crack before starting the rebuild but I guess everyone here gets what they want now. Should see a surge in attendance the next few years since this is what everyone wants to see. Yippee another 5 years of sub .500 baseball

 

I was hoping they'd try one more time and if it failed, start selling next July. Oh well.

 

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 6, 2016 -> 07:15 PM)
I agree

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 6, 2016 -> 07:05 PM)
I was hoping they'd give it one more crack before starting the rebuild but I guess everyone here gets what they want now. Should see a surge in attendance the next few years since this is what everyone wants to see. Yippee another 5 years of sub .500 baseball

 

Hahn himself at the deadline said that an offseason moving of players made more sense mainly cause teams are less likely to move established major leaguers at the deadline, that are in contention

 

So if things don't work out again in 2017, push the rebuilding back another year, to 2018

 

The Sox are in a unique position this offseason, in a sellers market...the franchise has never been in this strong of a position to set the franchise up for years to come. And maybe not as many down years as you would think.

 

Quite possibility the FO might just be better at this major overhaul thing. As has been mentioned, the sheer numbers of a haul they can accomplish could very well overshadow their scouting and talent evaluation shortcomings

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Sep 6, 2016 -> 07:17 PM)
I was hoping they'd try one more time and if it failed, start selling next July. Oh well.

 

This is pretty much what I've been saying since June, but if you can get meaningful peices for Melky and Frazier it's hard not to move them. Problem is, I just can't see the Sox trading any of Sale, Q, Eaton or Abreu and it's hard to rebuild without doing that. But if they do move those guys, they're gonna be bad for awhile. Obviously Rodon and Anderson are going no where. It's just hard to figure out what they'll do.

 

I actually ran into RH in the concourse of Target Field last Thursday about 40 minutes before first pitch. Rick, my dad and I chatted for probably 5 minutes. Super duper nice guy by the way. He pretty much said to us that they need to turn the page this offseason and they can't wait to get started. Obviously wouldn't give specifics but I felt like a rebuild was obvious from his comments. Strangely, we actually ran into him again as we were exiting the park after the game. He was standing by the exit texting on his phone, blending right in with the crowd. I patted him on the shoulder and said can't wait till next year - and he nodded and said stick with us boys. It was a really cool experience for a guy like me that's grown up a die hard due to my dad but never lived in Chicago or had the opportunity to be up close with Sox management. Funny enough, I actually shook Robin Venturas hand earlier this year in Macy's in a downtown MPLS skyway. Right place at the right time a couple times this year - pretty cool experience. Robin was nice too, but far less willing to engage in conversation; that said, I was more excited to meet RH - the mans got my dream job!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (captain54 @ Sep 6, 2016 -> 07:44 PM)
Hahn himself at the deadline said that an offseason moving of players made more sense mainly cause teams are less likely to move established major leaguers at the deadline, that are in contention

 

So if things don't work out again in 2017, push the rebuilding back another year, to 2018

 

The Sox are in a unique position this offseason, in a sellers market...the franchise has never been in this strong of a position to set the franchise up for years to come. And maybe not as many down years as you would think.

 

Quite possibility the FO might just be better at this major overhaul thing. As has been mentioned, the sheer numbers of a haul they can accomplish could very well overshadow their scouting and talent evaluation shortcomings

Time will tell. I'm just looking forward to very few complaining on these boards once they do move forward with the rebuild. I'm not sure what some people are going to do if they can't complain any more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 6, 2016 -> 07:19 PM)
Time will tell. I'm just looking forward to very few complaining on these boards once they do move forward with the rebuild. I'm not sure what some people are going to do if they can't complain any more.

They are certainly not going to miss what's resulted from the retooling approach of recent years. It's been a brutal several years lately to be a White Sox fan.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 6, 2016 -> 08:19 PM)
Time will tell. I'm just looking forward to very few complaining on these boards once they do move forward with the rebuild. I'm not sure what some people are going to do if they can't complain any more.

 

Give the fans credit, complaining or non complaining, for at least populating boards like this and showing some interest.

 

It's been a brutal run of baseball, and the complainers could very well have turned into who-gives-a-damners

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Sep 6, 2016 -> 08:37 PM)
They are certainly not going to miss what's resulted from the retooling approach of recent years. It's been a brutal several years lately to be a White Sox fan.

Retooling led to the 2005 WS title. No one is happy with this team since 2012 but we will see what a full rebuild brings. I will just have zero patience for those complaining about terrible teams over the next few years if they decide to go the full rebuild route. And yes, they will be terrible. Looking at a rotation along the lines of Rodon, Fulmer, Shields, Danish, and Ranaudo over the next two years if they deal Sale and Q and don't get a major league ready SP in return. Going to be some really bad baseball on the South side. You think this is bad, try less than 70 wins bad over the next couple seasons. Hopefully they can complete the rebuild in less time than it has taken the Twins...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (captain54 @ Sep 6, 2016 -> 09:13 PM)
Give the fans credit, complaining or non complaining, for at least populating boards like this and showing some interest.

 

It's been a brutal run of baseball, and the complainers could very well have turned into who-gives-a-damners

Eh, I think some fans like to complain for the sake of complaining and I'm not sure that's better than the who-gives-a-damners. Many Sox fans have stated that they have no interest in attending games with the current state of the team so I would expect that will turn around if they get the full rebuild they so desperately desire. I'll be curious to see what the attendance figures show, numbers don't lie...Wouldn't be shocked to see them dip below 20k/game if they roll out a couple consecutive seasons of 90+ losses after this year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 6, 2016 -> 09:21 PM)
Eh, I think some fans like to complain for the sake of complaining and I'm not sure that's better than the who-gives-a-damners. Many Sox fans have stated that they have no interest in attending games with the current state of the team so I would expect that will turn around if they get the full rebuild they so desperately desire. I'll be curious to see what the attendance figures show, numbers don't lie...Wouldn't be shocked to see them dip below 20k/game if they roll out a couple consecutive seasons of 90+ losses after this year.

Who cares about any of this? We need to rebuild now because we're unable to build around our core assets before their value is completely gone. It doesn't matter if fans are miserable for the next few years or if attendance drops. All that matters is building a major league core and minor league pipeline that can lead to sustainable success. Sucks we're at this point and I don't look forward to the next few years of White Sox baseball, but it's the only option for us at this time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 6, 2016 -> 07:19 PM)
Time will tell. I'm just looking forward to very few complaining on these boards once they do move forward with the rebuild. I'm not sure what some people are going to do if they can't complain any more.

 

Rick and / or Kenny can say whatever they want. The only person who when they speak matters, is JR. And all indications are pointing to him 'not" wanting a rebuild.

 

We'll see. Maybe he can be talked into changing his mind.

 

And another poster mentioned a good point. The Sox are near the bottom in attendance and at the bottom in TV ratings. If they suck another five years because of a true rebuild, from that standpoint it doesn't matter. They are getting more than enough revenue from the different streams to keep themselves going.

 

JR won't be wondering where his next meal is going to come from if they decide to tear it down and average 12 thousand a game.

 

Mark

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Sep 6, 2016 -> 11:44 PM)
Rick and / or Kenny can say whatever they want. The only person who when they speak matters, is JR. And all indications are pointing to him 'not" wanting a rebuild.

 

We'll see. Maybe he can be talked into changing his mind.

 

And another poster mentioned a good point. The Sox are near the bottom in attendance and at the bottom in TV ratings. If they suck another five years because of a true rebuild, from that standpoint it doesn't matter. They are getting more than enough revenue from the different streams to keep themselves going.

 

JR won't be wondering where his next meal is going to come from if they decide to tear it down and average 12 thousand a game.

 

Mark

Multiple people on the radio have suggested Reinsdorf is open to a rebuild. And Dick Allen said that Rick Hahn strongly hinted at a rebuild today during a season ticket holder event. Throw in the fact that Burdi & Fulmer aren't being called up and the bogus reasons why, and I honestly believe we're heading for a rebuild.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you want to look at the glass half full if the Sox do a rebuild then consider this. When Epstein took over the Cubs before the 2012 season the only real prospect the Cubs had was Baez and only he and Contreras are the only Cubs on the current roster that were with the Cubs organization pre-Epstein. It took them 3 years to rebuild that club into a playoff team. If you compare that to the Sox now, the Sox have better prospects then the Cubs did in 2011-2012 and MUCH more valuable assets to trade now then the 2012 Cubs did. If the Sox do this right they could very well be competitive by the 2019 season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They have to be competitive in 2019 or very clearly heading for it in 2020...the only salvation for this franchise is having an influx of another $50 million per year to spending with that broadcast rights deal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 6, 2016 -> 05:00 PM)
So you think replacing Navarro/Avila with Wieters, Schuck with Fowler, Shields/Danks/Ranuado with Volquez, Avi/Morneau with Moreland, and Albers/Kahnle/Ynoa with Burdi/Putnam/Petricka will have little to no impact on the number of wins next season? That's an interesting thought. I happen to think that those additions could result in as many as 10 additional wins and a total in the upper 80s, which absolutely positions them to be a playoff contender. Sure I will admit that a lot has to go right but if it doesn't then tear it down in July and sell off anything of value not in the mid-long term plan. I feel it's a very prudent approach.

 

 

You're really betting a LOT on Wieters' quite questionable health history. And you're only going to get him to Chicago on a one-year deal, with the contracts of Melky and Frazier expiring next year, they're not going to commit to anything beyond 2017 in terms of veteran acquisitions, IMO.

 

Fowler had an opportunity to play for the White Sox and Orioles last year, and chose the Cubs...he would be a nice get, but you can't just assume the same first half he had in 2016. He's actually tailed off quite a bit the second half of the season, and he's been far from a "sure thing" statistically (career-wise) until he doffed a Cubs' jersey.

 

Next, there's at least a 50/50 chance Volquez ends up staying with the Royals, they control his rights for 2017 until they buy him out. Until he joined the Pirates/Royals, he was one of those talented enigmas like Puig that nobody knew what to do with and everyone was afraid of signing and also just as equally afraid of not signing him because of "potential/ability/upside." He does have a lot of wear and tear on his arm...it wouldn't be a shocker at all to see him as a 4.75-5.25 ERA pitcher with the White Sox (and yes, KC has been playing as the third best stadium offensively, duly noted). The main question would be whether he could give you enough innings to protect that bullpen. (Basically,the same exact role another former Royal was supposed to fill).

 

Moreland's going to make more money than Morneau because of his relative youth (31), but anything is possible there offensively...he's just as likely to put up a 725-750 OPS as an 850. Just wonder the effect when you strip away some of the protection he gets in that Texas line-up. He would be expected to be the 4th or 5th best hitter for the White Sox, not a bottom of the order guy you just throw in there at the 7 spot.

 

 

It's also far from clear whether Burdi will be in the big league bullpen (with Robertson traded) or starting in Winston-Salem or Birmingham instead.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 7, 2016 -> 12:41 AM)
You're really betting a LOT on Wieters' quite questionable health history. And you're only going to get him to Chicago on a one-year deal, with the contracts of Melky and Frazier expiring next year, they're not going to commit to anything beyond 2017 in terms of veteran acquisitions, IMO.

 

Fowler had an opportunity to play for the White Sox and Orioles last year, and chose the Cubs...he would be a nice get, but you can't just assume the same first half he had in 2016. He's actually tailed off quite a bit the second half of the season, and he's been far from a "sure thing" statistically (career-wise) until he doffed a Cubs' jersey.

 

Next, there's at least a 50/50 chance Volquez ends up staying with the Royals, they control his rights for 2017 until they buy him out. Until he joined the Pirates/Royals, he was one of those talented enigmas like Puig that nobody knew what to do with and everyone was afraid of signing and also just as equally afraid of not signing him because of "potential/ability/upside." He does have a lot of wear and tear on his arm...it wouldn't be a shocker at all to see him as a 4.75-5.25 ERA pitcher with the White Sox (and yes, KC has been playing as the third best stadium offensively, duly noted). The main question would be whether he could give you enough innings to protect that bullpen. (Basically,the same exact role another former Royal was supposed to fill).

 

Moreland's going to make more money than Morneau because of his relative youth (31), but anything is possible there offensively...he's just as likely to put up a 725-750 OPS as an 850. Just wonder the effect when you strip away some of the protection he gets in that Texas line-up. He would be expected to be the 4th or 5th best hitter for the White Sox, not a bottom of the order guy you just throw in there at the 7 spot.

 

 

It's also far from clear whether Burdi will be in the big league bullpen (with Robertson traded) or starting in Winston-Salem or Birmingham instead.

1. Wieters will end this season with more than 400 PA and had nearly 300 last season. Every player comes with an injury risk but he appears to be past his Tommy John at this point.

2. In the past 6 seasons Fowler's lowest WAR has been 1.5 in his one season with the Astros. Even if he does what he did with the Astros that's still a big upgrade from Jackson/Schuck.

3. I still think the Royals cut Volquez lose but even if they don't it shouldn't be that hard to find someone to fill the #5 SP role (Fulmer?). Even an ERA in the 4.75-5.25 range as you suggest is a massive upgrade from what this team has gotten this season from that spot. The combined ERA of Danks/Shields/Ranaudo is just below 8!

4. Moreland is a career 765 OPS. Even if he dips to 725-750 that's still an upgrade over the combined numbers put up this season by Avi/Sands/Morneau. Also, I have him slotted in the 6 hole behind Fowler, Eaton, Abreu, Frazier, and Melky. He typically bats 6 or 7 for the AL best Texas Rangers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 7, 2016 -> 05:39 AM)
1. Wieters will end this season with more than 400 PA and had nearly 300 last season. Every player comes with an injury risk but he appears to be past his Tommy John at this point.

2. In the past 6 seasons Fowler's lowest WAR has been 1.5 in his one season with the Astros. Even if he does what he did with the Astros that's still a big upgrade from Jackson/Schuck.

3. I still think the Royals cut Volquez lose but even if they don't it shouldn't be that hard to find someone to fill the #5 SP role (Fulmer?). Even an ERA in the 4.75-5.25 range as you suggest is a massive upgrade from what this team has gotten this season from that spot. The combined ERA of Danks/Shields/Ranaudo is just below 8!

4. Moreland is a career 765 OPS. Even if he dips to 725-750 that's still an upgrade over the combined numbers put up this season by Avi/Sands/Morneau. Also, I have him slotted in the 6 hole behind Fowler, Eaton, Abreu, Frazier, and Melky. He typically bats 6 or 7 for the AL best Texas Rangers.

 

Where are they going to get the money to add roughly $40 million in payroll for next year?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Sep 6, 2016 -> 11:29 PM)
Who cares about any of this? We need to rebuild now because we're unable to build around our core assets before their value is completely gone. It doesn't matter if fans are miserable for the next few years or if attendance drops. All that matters is building a major league core and minor league pipeline that can lead to sustainable success. Sucks we're at this point and I don't look forward to the next few years of White Sox baseball, but it's the only option for us at this time.

You would think all of our core assets are gone after next season with the way some people talk. They are all locked up thru 2019 at a minimum. Here's the other thing - the original core of Eaton, Sale, Q, and Abreu is growing as we speak by adding guys like Rodon and Anderson and hopefully in the near future Fulmer, Burdi, Collins, and Hansen. Can always retool by not only signing FA but also by trading expiring contracts like Melky, Robertson, Gonzalez, and Frazier too if they don't fit into the plan thru 2019. Sure they won't get the haul of a Sale or Q but did anyone think the Cubs would get the type of hail they got for expiring contracts Feldman or Shark/Hammel?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 7, 2016 -> 06:11 AM)
How do you figure that adds $40MM to payroll?

 

Boras is going to get $10 million for Wieters from SOMEONE.

$15 million for Fowler for one year.

 

$7 million for Volquez. $8 million for Moreland.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 7, 2016 -> 07:09 AM)
You would think all of our core assets are gone after next season with the way some people talk. They are all locked up thru 2019 at a minimum. Here's the other thing - the original core of Eaton, Sale, Q, and Abreu is growing as we speak by adding guys like Rodon and Anderson and hopefully in the near future Fulmer, Burdi, Collins, and Hansen. Can always retool by not only signing FA but also by trading expiring contracts like Melky, Robertson, Gonzalez, and Frazier too if they don't fit into the plan thru 2019. Sure they won't get the haul of a Sale or Q but did anyone think the Cubs would get the type of hail they got for expiring contracts Feldman or Shark/Hammel?

You're basically arguing for non-stop retooling with this post, which is exactly why we're in this predicament in the first place. And how does trading the expiring contracts of B/C type players help us become competive before Sale leaves for free agency exactly? You're only making it even more abundantly clear that while our window is technically three years, it's more likely one year unless several prospects make leaps in 2017. And I'm not sure who you think those guys may be. Collins might be able to fill a spot in 2018 if we give up on him as a catcher. I don't think anyone else from our 2016 draft class, other than Burdi, will help before 2019. Who else in the system do you expect to become a major league contributor before then?

 

I get that rebuilding is a painful proposition, but it's the right move for the organzation at this point time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 7, 2016 -> 08:21 AM)
Boras is going to get $10 million for Wieters from SOMEONE.

$15 million for Fowler for one year.

 

$7 million for Volquez. $8 million for Moreland.

 

Actually doesn't Shields add as well. They only paid a partial on him this year but get the full load next year.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (SCCWS @ Sep 7, 2016 -> 06:27 AM)
Actually doesn't Shields add as well. They only paid a partial on him this year but get the full load next year.

 

$10 million in 2017, $10 million in 2018, $2 million buyout pre 2019....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×