Jon Heyman: Sox have little interest in moving Sale or Quintana

[dpd9189]

Personally I think Heyman's article is a bit misleading and I'm not buying it. Does JR want to trade those guys? Absolutely not. However if he, KW and RH are truly in lock step then they know that they are going to have to make some difficult decisions going forward that will involve trading these guys to hopefully build this team up for future success. Hell nobody wants to trade Sale or Q but when you take a look at the bigger picture, something has to change. Throwing money at big time UFA's when you're not a contender gets you in more trouble and only delays the rebuild.

 

I also think that this may have been Sox PR using Heyman to put out the message that just because we're likely to trade Q/Sale, it won't come cheap and we're not going to just give them away.

 

I'll be shocked and disappointed if the Sox decide to stay the course and Hahn will have egg all over his face after his "mired in mediocrity" comments. I'm hoping for a total rebuild with a young talent infusion that is ready to compete for the playoffs by 2019/2020. Especially with the 2018 UFA class looking like it's going to be the best ever, the Sox will have the money to spend to land a big time fish or two that can help them compete that season. just my opinion.

[caulfield12]

Three choices (really 2 1/2)

 

Spend $125-175 million on free agents, minimum...

 

Trade the likes of Fulmer and Adams to add major league pieces...like a Carlos Gonzalez, so you're also adding significantly to payroll by buying 30+ veterans with expensive contracts, since you're simply not going to receive "young/cheap/good" players in their primes for minor leaguers. Maybe if you packaged our entire Top 10 together (outside the 2016 draftees), you'd get an Ozuna from the Marlins, or Teheran from the Braves.

 

Trade Q/Sale

 

 

One is unlikely. Two is even a harder road. That logically leaves Door #3.

 

 

[soxforlife05]

Personally I think Heyman's article is a bit misleading and I'm not buying it. Does JR want to trade those guys? Absolutely not. However if he, KW and RH are truly in lock step then they know that they are going to have to make some difficult decisions going forward that will involve trading these guys to hopefully build this team up for future success. Hell nobody wants to trade Sale or Q but when you take a look at the bigger picture, something has to change. Throwing money at big time UFA's when you're not a contender gets you in more trouble and only delays the rebuild.

 

I also think that this may have been Sox PR using Heyman to put out the message that just because we're likely to trade Q/Sale, it won't come cheap and we're not going to just give them away.

 

I'll be shocked and disappointed if the Sox decide to stay the course and Hahn will have egg all over his face after his "mired in mediocrity" comments. I'm hoping for a total rebuild with a young talent infusion that is ready to compete for the playoffs by 2019/2020. Especially with the 2018 UFA class looking like it's going to be the best ever, the Sox will have the money to spend to land a big time fish or two that can help them compete that season. just my opinion.

 

I read plenty of reports that said the Sox never seriously entertained trading Sale or Q in the days leading up to the deadine. I honestly believe they won't trade those two until they feel they have exhausted all options keeping them on the roster. Which means 1-2 more seasons of going for it. I'm betting the farm gets gutted to the point where we have literally no players with major league upside outside of the major league roster before they take a rebuild seriously. We are pretty close to being there though. We are going to need players like Frazier and Melky to sign very team friendly extensions to make it work which seems like it could be possible. Might be a good idea to try to extend Frazier 3-4 years beyond next season this offseason in the hopes he'd go for something team friendly before a contract year rebound.

 

If Sale or Q were going to be moved in the offseason it's likely we would have done something like move Melky or Robertson at the deadline.

Edited September 2, 2016 by soxforlife05

[southsider2k5]

Why not? The White Sox are a big market team with potential to draw. The numbers were there after 2005. They are in a major TV market and with the explosion of growth of the SW burbs, a much wider potential fan base than the Cubs

 

Also, as has been stated .. The comparisons to the KC and Pitts teams of the past are irrelevant. Small market teams..their droughts were in a different financial era of baseball

 

There is still a massive divide between the haves and have nots in baseball, and revenue is the truest division. Small market teams occasionally make it out, but they disappear quickly. I used KC and Pittsburgh as examples before. So they finally did something positive right? Yeah, look at where they are right now.

[Balta1701]

There is still a massive divide between the haves and have nots in baseball, and revenue is the truest division. Small market teams occasionally make it out, but they disappear quickly. I used KC and Pittsburgh as examples before. So they finally did something positive right? Yeah, look at where they are right now.

A combined 5.5 games out of the Wild Card between both of them after 5 playoff appearances and a world series title the last 3 years?

 

You make a strong case. We should do what they did.

[caulfield12]

Both of those teams will be in the Top 10 next preseason as well...especially Pittsburgh. They represent one of the best future hopes to derail the Cubs.

[Hatchetman]

Pirates farm system is loaded so they will be decent at minimum over next decade.

[Thad Bosley]

There is still a massive divide between the haves and have nots in baseball, and revenue is the truest division. Small market teams occasionally make it out, but they disappear quickly. I used KC and Pittsburgh as examples before. So they finally did something positive right? Yeah, look at where they are right now.

The Chicago White Sox do NOT fall in the category of the "have nots".

[jenksycat]

Pirates farm system is loaded so they will be decent at minimum over next decade.

 

My called shot is the Sox going "all in" and trading for McCutchen this off-season.

[Lip Man 1]

For what it's worth I can only tell you what I was told after the trade deadline by two sources, that JR does not want to trade Sale or Quintana and that he wants to "go for it" again next year.

 

Maybe he changes his mind over the winter...we'll see.

 

Mark

 

 

[Lip Man 1]

If Sale or Q were going to be moved in the offseason it's likely we would have done something like move Melky or Robertson at the deadline.

 

You're assuming another team was interested in them. I'd like to think there was...but who knows for sure.

 

Mark

 

[southsider2k5]

The Chicago White Sox do NOT fall in the category of the "have nots".

 

Compared to the top tier of MLB? They were tied for 20th in total revenue, and less than half of what the leading team was. Let me put it this way, to make it even clearer. They were $47 million in revenue ahead of Tampa Bay, the lowest revenue team in baseball. They trailed the Yankees by $276 million.

 

They are clearly a have not.

[SCCWS]

Compared to the top tier of MLB? They were tied for 20th in total revenue, and less than half of what the leading team was. Let me put it this way, to make it even clearer. They were $47 million in revenue ahead of Tampa Bay, the lowest revenue team in baseball. They trailed the Yankees by $276 million.

 

They are clearly a have not.

 

Agree and really a mid-market team in a large market city.

 

[bmags]

One thing pointed out by SSS and probably worth mentioning, the source for this was "someone familiar with Reinsdorf's line of thinking".

 

Not exactly something to take to the bank.

[Thad Bosley]

For what it's worth I can only tell you what I was told after the trade deadline by two sources, that JR does not want to trade Sale or Quintana and that he wants to "go for it" again next year.

 

Maybe he changes his mind over the winter...we'll see.

 

Mark

Go for what with what? A championship with a squad still somewhat resembling THIS team? The team that has looked as bad as the 2013 team by going 40-60 in the 100 games since the fluke start? I mean, what are we talking about here? I'm all for going for it, as this playoff drought and bad baseball of recent seasons is really getting old. But if Reinsdorf & Crew are simply going to go through another round of dumpster dives and try to pass them off as upgrades in the spirit of "going for it", well, that would be rather unfortunate, to say the least.

[soxforlife05]

You're assuming another team was interested in them. I'd like to think there was...but who knows for sure.

 

Mark

 

I read that Boston had interested in acquiring Robertson.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

With Rodon coming into his own, I'm really pumped about what this rotation can do next season. Sale, Q, Rodon form arguably the best 1-3 combo in the league and back it up with Gonzo and hopefully a solid Fulmer and that rotation certainly has the potential to be top 2 or 3 in the league. It's hard to break up a rotation that strong with 4 of the 5 guys under 30 yo still. I'm all in on building around that staff but the front office has their work cut out for them this offseason in order to improve other areas of weakness on the roster.

[soxforlife05]

With Rodon coming into his own, I'm really pumped about what this rotation can do next season. Sale, Q, Rodon form arguably the best 1-3 combo in the league and back it up with Gonzo and hopefully a solid Fulmer and that rotation certainly has the potential to be top 2 or 3 in the league. It's hard to break up a rotation that strong with 4 of the 5 guys under 30 yo still. I'm all in on building around that staff but the front office has their work cut out for them this offseason in order to improve other areas of weakness on the roster.

 

I thought that would be the case this year. Hopefully KW can get Shields to retire.

[caulfield12]

With Rodon coming into his own, I'm really pumped about what this rotation can do next season. Sale, Q, Rodon form arguably the best 1-3 combo in the league and back it up with Gonzo and hopefully a solid Fulmer and that rotation certainly has the potential to be top 2 or 3 in the league. It's hard to break up a rotation that strong with 4 of the 5 guys under 30 yo still. I'm all in on building around that staff but the front office has their work cut out for them this offseason in order to improve other areas of weakness on the roster.

 

Yes, but we saw that out of Rodon the second half last year as well. Didn't translate.

 

At any rate, Shields, Gonzalez and Fulmer will make or break the season...

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

Yes, but we saw that out of Rodon the second half last year as well. Didn't translate.

 

At any rate, Shields, Gonzalez and Fulmer will make or break the season...

I think a lot of people lose sight of the fact that Rodon is only 23. I fully expect an ERA in the 3.30-3.50 range next season over 180+ IP. Legit #2 numbers by AL standards. As far as Shields is concerned, the new manager should not let him make or break the back end of the rotation. The manager has to have the balls and the ability to throw him in the pen if Fulmer is the better pitcher next spring, which I fully expect he will be. As I stated in another thread, I wouldn't be opposed to taking a flier on someone like Fister or Volquez on a 1 or 2 year deal as added insurance/depth since they will be relatively cheap.

Edited September 3, 2016 by JUSTgottaBELIEVE

[Balta1701]

I think a lot of people lose sight of the fact that Rodon is only 23. I fully expect an ERA in the 3.30-3.50 range next season over 180+ IP. Legit #2 numbers by AL standards. As far as Shields is concerned, the new manager should not let him make or break the back end of the rotation. The manager has to have the balls and the ability to throw him in the pen if Fulmer is the better pitcher next spring, which I fully expect he will be. As I stated in another thread, I wouldn't be opposed to taking a flier on someone like Fister or Volquez on a 1 or 2 year deal as added insurance/depth since they will be relatively cheap.

After all, the "Rick Hahn Special" signing is how we got where we are today, and since we are happy with where this franchise is today we should keep doing the same thing.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

After all, the "Rick Hahn Special" signing is how we got where we are today, and since we are happy with where this franchise is today we should keep doing the same thing.

No one is happy with how the team is playing this year but there is no denying the fantastic front end of the rotation that has developed which has an ability to become even deeper if Fulmer reaches his potential. There is nothing wrong with signing a veteran on a short term deal for additional depth and to support the back end of the rotation. Heck even everyone's favorite team around here the Cubs signed 33 year old Jason Hammel to a 2 year deal to do exactly what I'm describing. Similarly Doug Fister was signed to a 1 year deal by the Astros. You just can't count on these guys to be front of the rotation starters but a low to mid 4 ERA and 160+ IP is a perfectably reasonable expectation and very valuable. Nobody expected that from guys like Latos, Paulino, etc. but I would expect that from guys like Volquez and Fister, which are another tier up. JR has to be willing to spend that extra $ to get guys that are serviceable rather than scrap heap headed out of the league types. This would mean expanding the payroll another $15-20MM next season.

Edited September 3, 2016 by JUSTgottaBELIEVE

[Chicago White Sox]

No one is happy with how the team is playing this year but there is no denying the fantastic front end of the rotation that has developed which has an ability to become even deeper if Fulmer reaches his potential. There is nothing wrong with signing a veteran on a short term deal for additional depth and to support the back end of the rotation. Heck even everyone's favorite team around here the Cubs signed 33 year old Jason Hammel to a 2 year deal to do exactly what I'm describing. Similarly Doug Fister was signed to a 1 year deal by the Astros. You just can't count on these guys to be front of the rotation starters but a low to mid 4 ERA and 160+ IP is a perfectably reasonable expectation and very valuable. Nobody expected that from guys like Latos, Paulino, etc. but I would expect that from guys like Volquez and Fister, which are another tier up. JR has to be willing to spend that extra $ to get guys that are serviceable rather than scrap heap headed out of the league types. This would mean expanding the payroll another $15-20MM next season.

How do you expect the Sox to have the money to sign another starter when we're already paying Shields $10M and will need significant financial resources to fix the offense?

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

How do you expect the Sox to have the money to sign another starter when we're already paying Shields $10M and will need significant financial resources to fix the offense?

How much will a guy like Volquez cost? Guess? I'll say 2 years/$10-12MM. Not breaking the bank and only a few more million per year than what they gave Latos

[Balta1701]

No one is happy with how the team is playing this year but there is no denying the fantastic front end of the rotation that has developed which has an ability to become even deeper if Fulmer reaches his potential. There is nothing wrong with signing a veteran on a short term deal for additional depth and to support the back end of the rotation. Heck even everyone's favorite team around here the Cubs signed 33 year old Jason Hammel to a 2 year deal to do exactly what I'm describing. Similarly Doug Fister was signed to a 1 year deal by the Astros. You just can't count on these guys to be front of the rotation starters but a low to mid 4 ERA and 160+ IP is a perfectably reasonable expectation and very valuable. Nobody expected that from guys like Latos, Paulino, etc. but I would expect that from guys like Volquez and Fister, which are another tier up. JR has to be willing to spend that extra $ to get guys that are serviceable rather than scrap heap headed out of the league types. This would mean expanding the payroll another $15-20MM next season.

Why that was more expectable from Fister than Latos I have no idea. Latos put up an 89 ERA+ in 2015 before the White Sox signed him, Volquez is at 88 this year. Fister is slightly better but also worth noting that both of those guys will be 33 next year.

 

This is exactly how we got to where we are right now. Signing guys to be "good enough".

 

This is the Rick Hahn Special thinking. Sign a guy that is good enough and your team will be good enough to make a run at the 2nd wild card when nothing goes wrong. This thinking has failed us repeatedly and will keep failing us. Stuff always goes wrong.

 

Stop trying to build a team that is "good enough". Stop thinking about the wild card at all. The teams winning the wild card most years are teams that are plenty good to win a division the year before or the year after.

 

Stop trying to assemble a team that is good enough and hoping that nothing goes wrong. Build a team that is clearly the best in the division. Build a team that is clearly the best in the league. Build the best organization in the league. Do that, and when something goes wrong, then you still have the Wild Card and a system that can support you with trades or callups when something goes wrong without it destroying your franchise.

 

This mindset is how we got articles about how much better the catcher's slot would be this year than last year. This is how I got convinced that Keppinger was a good signing. This mindset is how we wound up with every other Rick Hahn Special. If we keep it up, eventually we'll win that 2nd wild card. As long as you're happy with 1 second-wild-card appearance every decade or two, then that's the mindset for you. It's how we got where we are right now, so as long as you're happy with where we are right now, then go right ahead.

 

I want that thinking tossed out the window, because I'm tired of where we are right now.