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QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Oct 4, 2016 -> 07:32 PM)
I can get on board with that. I would probably ask for the first deal minus Vazquez and plus Moncada but potentially settle for something like what you have listed. That fills two huge holes (CF and 3B) that would be extremely difficult to fill within the organization at this time. I guess you take the great framing and defense with Vazquez and hope he figures how to hit with 2-3 years of being the every day catcher. Collins would be the backup plan for catcher and I'm sure we could find him another position if Vazquez worked out (try him in LF early in his career and if it doesn't work out 1B/DH if Abreu leaves after his contract).

 

I really think they won't move Moncada because of the investment in him but who knows when it comes down to pulling the trigger on Sale or Quintana. I want to take our time with Collins. Let him start at AA next year and work his way through the system, especially if we rebuild. There's no longer a reason to push guys faster through the system if we're rebuilding. I do think Collins could be up next year at some point. Next year will be really fun for me if we rebuild and there's a ton of prospects to follow and watch debut. I'm just not sure if only moving Sale is good enough to push this team into the playoffs. This free agent market sucks, so there's not a ton of options to chose from to help fill some holes. If you only moved Sale and got Benintendi, Kopech, Devers, Rodriguez and Vazquez, is that enough to propel this team into contention moving forward for years to come? I'm not so sure because you're banking on prospects working out which most of the time they don't in these types of trades. I'm still trying to figure out if Hahn is trying to include JBJ in the deal as well and what that would do to the deal. I thought I read somewhere they wanted JBJ or Betts which isn't happening most likely let alone midseason.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 4, 2016 -> 07:51 PM)
The Yankees being involved in a Sale deal will be the best thing that could ever happen to the Sox if a Sale deal is going to happen. Either we will clean off their top prospect list, or we get Boston to push in a couple of guys they don't want to in order to top the Yankees. It is a win-win.

 

Oh definitely and I'd bet $100 they will be in on Sale because there were rumors around the deadline that they would be in on him this off-season. I haven't looked at their prospects very much.

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QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Oct 4, 2016 -> 07:54 PM)
I really think they won't move Moncada because of the investment in him but who knows when it comes down to pulling the trigger on Sale or Quintana. I want to take our time with Collins. Let him start at AA next year and work his way through the system, especially if we rebuild. There's no longer a reason to push guys faster through the system if we're rebuilding. I do think Collins could be up next year at some point. Next year will be really fun for me if we rebuild and there's a ton of prospects to follow and watch debut. I'm just not sure if only moving Sale is good enough to push this team into the playoffs. This free agent market sucks, so there's not a ton of options to chose from to help fill some holes. If you only moved Sale and got Benintendi, Kopech, Devers, Rodriguez and Vazquez, is that enough to propel this team into contention moving forward for years to come? I'm not so sure because you're banking on prospects working out which most of the time they don't in these types of trades. I'm still trying to figure out if Hahn is trying to include JBJ in the deal as well and what that would do to the deal. I thought I read somewhere they wanted JBJ or Betts which isn't happening most likely let alone midseason.

 

Taking our time with Collins doesn't involve starting him at AA. Start him at A ball Winston Salem again, and let him have a couple of more months in A ball before making the decision to push him to AA.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 4, 2016 -> 07:53 PM)
Taking our time with Collins doesn't involve starting him at AA. Start him at A ball Winston Salem again, and let him have a couple of more months in A ball before making the decision to push him to AA.

Ok that's fine too. I just used AA as a starting point since he was at A for awhile. He can start there again and I'd be completely fine with it.

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I want them to take their time with Collins but I think they have to move him from behind the plate and just focus on the bat

Edited by Joshua Strong

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 4, 2016 -> 07:51 PM)
The Yankees being involved in a Sale deal will be the best thing that could ever happen to the Sox if a Sale deal is going to happen. Either we will clean off their top prospect list, or we get Boston to push in a couple of guys they don't want to in order to top the Yankees. It is a win-win.

 

And the loser might get interested in Quintana (though you'd hope the Dodgers would as well)

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QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Oct 5, 2016 -> 06:06 AM)
And the loser might get interested in Quintana (though you'd hope the Dodgers would as well)

There's no way in hell the Sox are trading Sale or Q. The Sox have always valued starting pitching and trading those two would assure the Sox a 45 to 50-win season. We'd lose literally every series we play in. Reinsdorf is not getting any younger. A lot of his friends have already moved on to the next life. He knows he's aging and doesn't want 50 win seasons, folks. He wants rings!!!

I wish they'd just release Shields, by the way, before they are tempted to give him a shot in spring training, etc.

 

The Sox are going to do what they always do, try to piece together a contender. They have to avoid signing worthless players while keeping their good ones. Why in the hell do they insist on signing mediocrity like Melky, Lawrie, Rollins and horrific catchers?. If you are gonna sign guys, make sure they are good players. Uh, can't scouts scout anymore??? Shields? Give me a break. Everybody should be fired over that move. Ditto Rollins. He was done.

Edited by greg775

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QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 5, 2016 -> 12:11 AM)
There's no way in hell the Sox are trading Sale or Q. The Sox have always valued starting pitching and trading those two would assure the Sox a 45 to 50-win season. We'd lose literally every series we play in. Reinsdorf is not getting any younger. A lot of his friends have already moved on to the next life. He knows he's aging and doesn't want 50 win seasons, folks. He wants rings!!!

I wish they'd just release Shields, by the way, before they are tempted to give him a shot in spring training, etc.

 

The Sox are going to do what they always do, try to piece together a contender. They have to avoid signing worthless players while keeping their good ones. Why in the hell do they insist on signing mediocrity like Melky, Lawrie, Rollins and horrific catchers?. If you are gonna sign guys, make sure they are good players. Uh, can't scouts scout anymore??? Shields? Give me a break. Everybody should be fired over that move. Ditto Rollins. He was done.

 

That would be the point.

 

I'm of the opinion that if you trade Sale, blow it all up.

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QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 5, 2016 -> 12:11 AM)
There's no way in hell the Sox are trading Sale or Q. The Sox have always valued starting pitching and trading those two would assure the Sox a 45 to 50-win season. We'd lose literally every series we play in. Reinsdorf is not getting any younger. A lot of his friends have already moved on to the next life. He knows he's aging and doesn't want 50 win seasons, folks. He wants rings!!!

I wish they'd just release Shields, by the way, before they are tempted to give him a shot in spring training, etc.

 

The Sox are going to do what they always do, try to piece together a contender. They have to avoid signing worthless players while keeping their good ones. Why in the hell do they insist on signing mediocrity like Melky, Lawrie, Rollins and horrific catchers?. If you are gonna sign guys, make sure they are good players. Uh, can't scouts scout anymore??? Shields? Give me a break. Everybody should be fired over that move. Ditto Rollins. He was done.

 

Melky was mediocrity this season?

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QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Oct 4, 2016 -> 08:54 PM)
I really think they won't move Moncada because of the investment in him but who knows when it comes down to pulling the trigger on Sale or Quintana. I want to take our time with Collins. Let him start at AA next year and work his way through the system, especially if we rebuild. There's no longer a reason to push guys faster through the system if we're rebuilding. I do think Collins could be up next year at some point. Next year will be really fun for me if we rebuild and there's a ton of prospects to follow and watch debut. I'm just not sure if only moving Sale is good enough to push this team into the playoffs. This free agent market sucks, so there's not a ton of options to chose from to help fill some holes. If you only moved Sale and got Benintendi, Kopech, Devers, Rodriguez and Vazquez, is that enough to propel this team into contention moving forward for years to come? I'm not so sure because you're banking on prospects working out which most of the time they don't in these types of trades. I'm still trying to figure out if Hahn is trying to include JBJ in the deal as well and what that would do to the deal. I thought I read somewhere they wanted JBJ or Betts which isn't happening most likely let alone midseason.

 

Boston will not want Sale now that Porcello has emerged to join Price at the top of the rotation. They will want a 3-4 starter and bullpen pieces. They will probably trade Holt, Young or Shaw w some 2nd tier prospects to fill the few holes they have. They did move Moncada to 3B and Devers is behind him so they could move one of them if needed.

 

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QUOTE (SCCWS @ Oct 5, 2016 -> 07:22 AM)
Boston will not want Sale now that Porcello has emerged to join Price at the top of the rotation. They will want a 3-4 starter and bullpen pieces. They will probably trade Holt, Young or Shaw w some 2nd tier prospects to fill the few holes they have. They did move Moncada to 3B and Devers is behind him so they could move one of them if needed.

 

This will depend tremendously on how well they play in the playoffs.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 4, 2016 -> 08:53 PM)
Taking our time with Collins doesn't involve starting him at AA. Start him at A ball Winston Salem again, and let him have a couple of more months in A ball before making the decision to push him to AA.

 

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Oct 4, 2016 -> 09:09 PM)
Ok that's fine too. I just used AA as a starting point since he was at A for awhile. He can start there again and I'd be completely fine with it.

 

QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Oct 4, 2016 -> 10:32 PM)
I want them to take their time with Collins but I think they have to move him from behind the plate and just focus on the bat

I'm now totally convinced he's starting at AA and people will be defending it when it happens.

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QUOTE (balfanman @ Oct 5, 2016 -> 07:57 AM)
This will depend tremendously on how well they play in the playoffs.

 

Totally. A lot of teams can look at getting to the playoffs today and be happy about it, and pretend to not need Chris Sale. All but one of the playoff teams are going home as losers, and will face additional pressure to do it again next year. Places like LA, NYY, and Boston are ones that get heaps of additional pressure if they don't get the hardware.

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QUOTE (SCCWS @ Oct 5, 2016 -> 07:22 AM)
Boston will not want Sale now that Porcello has emerged to join Price at the top of the rotation. They will want a 3-4 starter and bullpen pieces. They will probably trade Holt, Young or Shaw w some 2nd tier prospects to fill the few holes they have. They did move Moncada to 3B and Devers is behind him so they could move one of them if needed.

 

Non sense. Every team in baseball "wants" Chris Sale. Rick friggin Porcello doesn't change that.

 

Now only a few teams have what it takes to get him, and maybe they aren't willing to match that price, but that doesn't mean they don't want him.

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QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Oct 5, 2016 -> 07:32 AM)
I think if you really listen to what Rick has been saying lately, it seems like the rebuild is coming.

 

If a rebuild is coming, get rid of Q and Sale, no sense of keeping 1 or the other

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QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Oct 5, 2016 -> 11:12 AM)
If a rebuild is coming, get rid of Q and Sale, no sense of keeping 1 or the other

 

What if they deal one for huge haul and no one else offers the same for the other? Keep one if you don't get 2 huge offers.

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QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Oct 5, 2016 -> 11:56 AM)
What if they deal one for huge haul and no one else offers the same for the other? Keep one if you don't get 2 huge offers.

Exactly. The 2017/18 free agent sucks as well, so there's plenty of opportunity to deal one of them then.

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QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Oct 5, 2016 -> 11:59 AM)
Non sense. Every team in baseball "wants" Chris Sale. Rick friggin Porcello doesn't change that.

 

Now only a few teams have what it takes to get him, and maybe they aren't willing to match that price, but that doesn't mean they don't want him.

 

I agree that every team would want Chris Sale. But I doubt the Red Sox are going to break up a divisional championship team and possibly a World Series championship team to acquire Sale. The price is too high. They backed off last time and now their starting pitching has improved dramatically during 2nd half. I thought they might go for Q but now I doubt that as well. I think they will go in to the offseason looking to fill their holes-C, bullpen and a 5th starter.

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QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Oct 5, 2016 -> 09:59 AM)
Non sense. Every team in baseball "wants" Chris Sale. Rick friggin Porcello doesn't change that.

 

Now only a few teams have what it takes to get him, and maybe they aren't willing to match that price, but that doesn't mean they don't want him.

 

I more or less agree with this. Porcello is pitching way above his career numbers this year, and Dombrowski has to know that he's better off with Sale in his rotation over the next few years. If the Red Sox do anything less than win it all this year, I foresee Dombrowski and Hahn having some serious discussions at the winter meetings.

 

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QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Oct 5, 2016 -> 10:12 AM)
If a rebuild is coming, get rid of Q and Sale, no sense of keeping 1 or the other

 

There absolutely is sense in keeping one of them. Quintana is under team control through 2020 and he and Rodon appear to be the only sure-thing starters in the organization after next season.

 

If the Sox can get a good ML-ready return for Sale and maybe one or two other decent players for Robertson and Melky, there's no reason why they couldn't be contenders going into 2019.

 

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QUOTE (SCCWS @ Oct 5, 2016 -> 12:36 PM)
I agree that every team would want Chris Sale. But I doubt the Red Sox are going to break up a divisional championship team and possibly a World Series championship team to acquire Sale. The price is too high. They backed off last time and now their starting pitching has improved dramatically during 2nd half. I thought they might go for Q but now I doubt that as well. I think they will go in to the offseason looking to fill their holes-C, bullpen and a 5th starter.

 

If they don't win it all, there will be a lot of pressure on them to do something in the off season.

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QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Oct 5, 2016 -> 01:53 PM)
I more or less agree with this. Porcello is pitching way above his career numbers this year, and Dombrowski has to know that he's better off with Sale in his rotation over the next few years. If the Red Sox do anything less than win it all this year, I foresee Dombrowski and Hahn having some serious discussions at the winter meetings.

 

He is pitching above his average but he is also only 27. I think the question is has the Boston coaching staff changed something that has made him more effective. I can tell you the Boston media is having a love fest w this team. After 2 last place finishes, the Ortiz saga and the growth of their young players so quickly has them front and center. From a team standpoint, there is no talk about their starting pitching except who will pitch 3rd since they really have 2 #3 starters. It is all bullpen concerns. I would love to see Francona knock them out especially since they don't have home field. But it very well could be a Cubs/ Red Sox series on the horizon. That will have New England( maybe all of baseball) in a tizzy.

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QUOTE (SCCWS @ Oct 5, 2016 -> 02:41 PM)
He is pitching above his average but he is also only 27. I think the question is has the Boston coaching staff changed something that has made him more effective. I can tell you the Boston media is having a love fest w this team. After 2 last place finishes, the Ortiz saga and the growth of their young players so quickly has them front and center. From a team standpoint, there is no talk about their starting pitching except who will pitch 3rd since they really have 2 #3 starters. It is all bullpen concerns. I would love to see Francona knock them out especially since they don't have home field. But it very well could be a Cubs/ Red Sox series on the horizon. That will have New England( maybe all of baseball) in a tizzy.

 

There will be plenty of talk now, as Porcello and Price have both failed the Red Sox in this series.

 

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QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Oct 7, 2016 -> 08:41 PM)
There will be plenty of talk now, as Porcello and Price have both failed the Red Sox in this series.

 

Hopefully Tribe can sweep and Red Sox exit with concerns on their starters. Don't want to see Porcello or Price get a 2nd shot at redemption.

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