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Lip Man 1

Who stay...who goes???

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 5, 2016 -> 09:17 AM)
Ugh. One of these days you will learn what an observation is, but let me explain this. Again.

 

I EXPECT nothing. Fans can do what they want to do.

 

Now stay with me here, because this is where you seem to get lost, but, what fans do DOES have an effect on the bottom line of the franchise. IF they stay, or IF hey go is a big determination of the options that a franchise has.

 

Those two ideas are NOT mutually exclusive. You can believe in loyalty, or you can believe in sending a message to the franchise, but it does NOT change the fact that those actions impact the myriad of options that a franchise has. If you want to continue to be offended by your misconception, there isn't much I can do about that.

Actually, couldn't agree with you more. That's why it is incumbent upon management to put a product on the field that entices the fans to come, and motivates them to stay through some level of sustained success. That's how it works. Remember, fans are the consumers of the product, not the investors in it.

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QUOTE (Deadpool @ Oct 4, 2016 -> 09:26 PM)
Hahn admitted this morning going for it every year isn't working and free agent additions haven't lead to winning.

 

Even if they don't completely blow it up, they're going to do closer to that then "go for it"

 

Maybe...anything's possible. But Kenny Hahn would have to do a tremendous selling job on JR to change his mind. That's not easy but again we'll see.

 

Mark

 

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QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Oct 5, 2016 -> 11:04 AM)
Maybe...anything's possible. But Kenny Hahn would have to do a tremendous selling job on JR to change his mind. That's not easy but again we'll see.

 

Mark

 

But what does Rick Williams think?

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The classical case of the half-full, half-empty glass:

 

1. Half-full:

 

Sox have 4/5 of an excellent starting rotation in Sale, Quintana, Rodon and Gonzalez.

 

They have Abreu, Eaton, Anderson, Melky, Saladino and Frazier as the core of their lineup, with Lawrie and Narvaez as competent bench pieces.

 

They have a closer in Robertson, and good bullpen pieces in Nate Jones and Jennings with the possibility of both Petricka and Putnam returning.

 

They have intriguing pitching prospects in Burdi, Adams, Hansen, Fulmer, and Ynoa.

 

2. Half-empty:

 

They have NO apparent fifth starter, and Rodon and Gonzalez remain as full-season question marks.

 

They do not have a major league caliber starter at catcher, in center field or at DH. The free agent market is extremely thin.

 

They do not have enough power, especially playing half of their games in the cell.

 

Their bullpen literally sucked for much of the year, and they need at least three quality arms (especially a true long reliever).

 

 

Conclusion:

 

I believe the Sox have too many positives to decide on a total rebuild. That may seem like a foolish view to many, but I like the starters and the top of the lineup too much to agree with tearing it all down and rebuilding.

 

Having said that, the obvious problem is how they acquire the pieces needed. There is no easy answer to that ...

 

 

 

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QUOTE (bear_brian @ Oct 5, 2016 -> 11:38 AM)
Conclusion:

 

I believe the Sox have too many positives to decide on a total rebuild. That may seem like a foolish view to many, but I like the starters and the top of the lineup too much to agree with tearing it all down and rebuilding.

 

Having said that, the obvious problem is how they acquire the pieces needed. There is no easy answer to that ...

 

Conclusion Part Two:

 

Some of your half-fulls could fit easily fit in your half-empties..

 

There will never be an easy answer to the dilemma you speak of, because you've decided to hang on to anything that has any value whatsoever on the trade market...

 

The obvious problem has a pretty obvious answer, if you really think about it.. The answers to the problem of filling the Sox holes are buried in other teams' organizations...and maybe to some extent, their own organization with the improvement of the way they've approached play development...

 

It certainly isn't buried in the free agent market, at least not for the next couple of years...

 

So the bottom line is, the Sox are in a position to hold the hot hand in a rebuild.. an opportunistic situation that the franchise has never before had handed to them...an opportunity to make the most of what they have in two upcoming weak free agent markets... Now whether or not the Sox have the FO horses to pull that off, is a whole other issue altogether...

Edited by captain54

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QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 2, 2016 -> 05:27 PM)
I think Sale is long gone to Boston

If the Sox could pry Benintendi and Moncada I'd do that asap. Just those 2, no one else is necessary.

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QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Oct 5, 2016 -> 08:45 PM)
If the Sox could pry Benintendi and Moncada I'd do that asap. Just those 2, no one else is necessary.

For anyone other than Sale - hell yes... But Sale... For those two alone? I'm not so sure.

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I think Hahn is definitely going to "go for it".

At this point, not only do I think Hahn will "go for it", he will drop his earlier proviso of helping the current team "without hurting the future of the organization". As such, I wouldn't be surprised if any player under 25 were dealt.

 

Look for McCutchen....has 2 years left, off of a terrible year, and I believe that the Pirates will peddle him: 3 qualities that attract and are loved by Hahn.

They would be far better of identifying young OF and trading for them...but that takes scouting and talent evaluation skills and trade savvy... Thus the zeal for the "proven" player, even though the proven players that Hahn selects consistently underperform.

 

 

Personally, I would trade Sale to firm up 3 positions.. I think current team and farm could get better with the right moves.

Edited by GreenSox

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QUOTE (GreenSox @ Oct 5, 2016 -> 10:52 PM)
I think Hahn is definitely going to "go for it".

At this point, not only do I think Hahn will "go for it", he will drop his earlier proviso of helping the current team "without hurting the future of the organization". As such, I wouldn't be surprised if any player under 25 were dealt.

 

Look for McCutchen....has 2 years left, off of a terrible year, and I believe that the Pirates will peddle him: 3 qualities that attract and are loved by Hahn.

They would be far better of identifying young OF and trading for them...but that takes scouting and talent evaluation skills and trade savvy... Thus the zeal for the "proven" player, even though the proven players that Hahn selects consistently underperform.

 

 

Personally, I would trade Sale to firm up 3 positions.. I think current team and farm could get better with the right moves.

 

If we can get McCutchen that would be great.

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QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Oct 5, 2016 -> 09:17 PM)
If we can get McCutchen that would be great.

No it wouldn't. He's already 29 and he'll be a FA after 2018 . That's 2 years. Any piece we get back needs to be the fulll 5/6 years of control. 4 minimum.

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QUOTE (hi8is @ Oct 5, 2016 -> 08:51 PM)
For anyone other than Sale - hell yes... But Sale... For those two alone? I'm not so sure.

Benintend I'm pretty sure will be a stud. My only concern with him is how prone to injury he could be. Moncada has at least another year of development ahead of him so I'm less sure how he will pan out but he's immensely talented.

 

I wanted JB Jr when his stock was low because he was always a great defender but now that he has "arrived" his ceiling isn't that high as a hitter.Still, loving great defense like I do it would be fine getting him instead of Moncada . However he has 3 years till free agency and I'd prefer 4 minimum.

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QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Oct 6, 2016 -> 01:03 AM)
Benintend I'm pretty sure will be a stud. My only concern with him is how prone to injury he could be. Moncada has at least another year of development ahead of him so I'm less sure how he will pan out but he's immensely talented.

 

I wanted JB Jr when his stock was low because he was always a great defender but now that he has "arrived" his ceiling isn't that high as a hitter.Still, loving great defense like I do it would be fine getting him instead of Moncada . However he has 3 years till free agency and I'd prefer 4 minimum.

 

Why is he potentially injury prone? Guy has one freak accident collission and now hes injury prone?

 

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QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Oct 6, 2016 -> 01:50 AM)
No it wouldn't. He's already 29 and he'll be a FA after 2018 . That's 2 years. Any piece we get back needs to be the fulll 5/6 years of control. 4 minimum.

I don't necessarily agree with that thinking. Are you saying you'd rather have a lesser player for 4 years than a top of line guy like McCutcheon for 2? Give me the better player for 2 years everyday. That's assuming it's someone like McCuctheon and not a 34-35 year old. 29 isn't old.

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QUOTE (GreenSox @ Oct 5, 2016 -> 10:52 PM)
I think Hahn is definitely going to "go for it".

At this point, not only do I think Hahn will "go for it", he will drop his earlier proviso of helping the current team "without hurting the future of the organization". As such, I wouldn't be surprised if any player under 25 were dealt.

 

Look for McCutchen....has 2 years left, off of a terrible year, and I believe that the Pirates will peddle him: 3 qualities that attract and are loved by Hahn.

They would be far better of identifying young OF and trading for them...but that takes scouting and talent evaluation skills and trade savvy... Thus the zeal for the "proven" player, even though the proven players that Hahn selects consistently underperform.

 

 

Personally, I would trade Sale to firm up 3 positions.. I think current team and farm could get better with the right moves.

 

 

I completely disagree. He's rebuilding. He's talked about how Sox fans are ready for it. He also said that "they've tried the adding FA route" to patch it together. Key word there is "tried". They don't have the pieces to move. He's also talked about how it's a poor free agent class. I'd be stunned if they gave up the 12th pick in the draft to sign a free agent as well. I think Sale gets moved early in the offseason and they go from there.

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QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Oct 6, 2016 -> 09:21 AM)
I completely disagree. He's rebuilding. He's talked about how Sox fans are ready for it. He also said that "they've tried the adding FA route" to patch it together. Key word there is "tried". They don't have the pieces to move. He's also talked about how it's a poor free agent class. I'd be stunned if they gave up the 12th pick in the draft to sign a free agent as well. I think Sale gets moved early in the offseason and they go from there.

 

I think you're probably right. I just hope Rick sticks to his guns on what he wants. No settling for Chris Sale. We need a g'damn ransom.

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In regards to the rebuild. I need to see it to believe it. I have ZERO trust in this organizations front office. I can honestly see them ONCE AGAIN attempting to patch up holes with odd ball free agent signings on the cheap and trades for veterans. Which once again, gives us ZERO long term success hope. Ahh, I remember a few years back-- Rick Hahn loved using the phrase 'sustainable success' What a joke that has turned out to be. Get ready for more patching, White Sox nation! :angry:

Edited by GreatScott82

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QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Oct 6, 2016 -> 11:28 AM)
I think you're probably right. I just hope Rick sticks to his guns on what he wants. No settling for Chris Sale. We need a g'damn ransom.

But I assume you agree, few if any teams have and probably will give a ransom so Hahn should keep him if that is the case.

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