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Your Off Season Plan

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QUOTE (2005thxfrthmmrs @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 02:11 PM)
No, Urias is under control for 6 years I believe, a lot more team friendly situation even compared to Q.

 

If I'm being honest with myself, I'd ask what is my biggest need right now if I'm the Dodgers. They probably need a 2 or a 3 right now, which they have the cash to go sign without losing a top prospect. They just need Urias to fill in as the 4th and 5th starter next season and soon enough he'll grow into that 2/3 they're missing. And if I'm rebuilding the Sox, I'd definitely take Urias for Q straight up.

 

I am glad you're not the GM.

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QUOTE (2005thxfrthmmrs @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 02:03 PM)
There is no GM in MLB who will give you Urias for Q, let alone "a lot more". Despite what fWAR suggests, other teams do not see Q as a true ace, and that is what Urias would have to go for.

 

 

 

Exactly. You would not trade a top prospect who has already shown moderate success in the majors with a helium ceciling for another pitcher just because you "want" a more proven pitcher. I just don't know how much the dodgers are gaining from this. The ship for dealing Urias is gone, unless Dodgers are trying to pry a superstar away from another team.

 

The Dodgers get today. They don't have to wait a year or two, or maybe never to see if Urias hits on his talent.

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QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 12:18 PM)
If you're not batting Gallo in the middle of your order, you're making a mistake.

Gallo is awful

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A big problem with rebuilding this offseason is that a lot of the best prospects in the game right now are in rebuilding organizations. You can sit there and hope the Red Sox will trade a package of Benintendi, Moncada, Devers, etc., but they don't need to trade for pitching. The Dodgers don't really need to either honestly. The good teams have insulated themselves so they don't have to overpay. I dont see a ton of guys out there right now that are going to come up and be no doubt offensive studs. Would you trade a guy like Q to the Pirates for a deal centered around Austin Meadows maybe? Do you really foresee the Yankees trading a bunch of the guys they just acquired for an ace? This looks like a really bad situation the Sox are in. Hope Jerry is ready to break open that piggy bank.

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QUOTE (Dunt @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 03:38 PM)
A big problem with rebuilding this offseason is that a lot of the best prospects in the game right now are in rebuilding organizations. You can sit there and hope the Red Sox will trade a package of Benintendi, Moncada, Devers, etc., but they don't need to trade for pitching. The Dodgers don't really need to either honestly. The good teams have insulated themselves so they don't have to overpay. I dont see a ton of guys out there right now that are going to come up and be no doubt offensive studs. Would you trade a guy like Q to the Pirates for a deal centered around Austin Meadows maybe? Do you really foresee the Yankees trading a bunch of the guys they just acquired for an ace? This looks like a really bad situation the Sox are in. Hope Jerry is ready to break open that piggy bank.

 

Out of all of those teams, I have no doubt the Yankees would let us pick who we want out of their system to get Sale.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 03:41 PM)
Out of all of those teams, I have no doubt the Yankees would let us pick who we want out of their system to get Sale.

 

I wholeheartedly agree with you. I think they like some of the young core theyve put together, but I think they are really eyeing that 2018 FA class for when they fully make their move. Is a deal revolving around Frazier and Torres enough for Sale though?

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QUOTE (Dunt @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 03:50 PM)
I wholeheartedly agree with you. I think they like some of the young core theyve put together, but I think they are really eyeing that 2018 FA class for when they fully make their move. Is a deal revolving around Frazier and Torres enough for Sale though?

 

I have no idea what the Sox would ask for from the Yankees. They are one team that was remarkably silent during all of that Sale talk, though they way they loaded up on prospects makes me really suspicious. Honestly I don't think they would forgive themselves if they let Sale go to Boston.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 02:29 PM)
The Dodgers get today. They don't have to wait a year or two, or maybe never to see if Urias hits on his talent.

 

If they were pressured with winning today, they would have traded Urias for someone like Q back in July. Now Urias had a few months to prove himself, and Dodgers are growing comfort with him in the rotation. Also, there are other arms they can now sign that weren't available in July.

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QUOTE (2005thxfrthmmrs @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 04:02 PM)
If they were pressured with winning today, they would have traded Urias for someone like Q back in July. Now Urias had a few months to prove himself, and Dodgers are growing comfort with him in the rotation. Also, there are other arms they can now sign that weren't available in July.

 

I fully believe that what they do in the playoffs will dictate what happens next. If they bow out early, all bets are off. If they win it all, the pressure to add goes away.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 08:59 PM)
I have no idea what the Sox would ask for from the Yankees. They are one team that was remarkably silent during all of that Sale talk, though they way they loaded up on prospects makes me really suspicious. Honestly I don't think they would forgive themselves if they let Sale go to Boston.

 

Which is why it stinks Sanchez was so incredible this year

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QUOTE (Dunt @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 03:38 PM)
A big problem with rebuilding this offseason is that a lot of the best prospects in the game right now are in rebuilding organizations. You can sit there and hope the Red Sox will trade a package of Benintendi, Moncada, Devers, etc., but they don't need to trade for pitching. The Dodgers don't really need to either honestly. The good teams have insulated themselves so they don't have to overpay. I dont see a ton of guys out there right now that are going to come up and be no doubt offensive studs. Would you trade a guy like Q to the Pirates for a deal centered around Austin Meadows maybe? Do you really foresee the Yankees trading a bunch of the guys they just acquired for an ace? This looks like a really bad situation the Sox are in. Hope Jerry is ready to break open that piggy bank.

 

 

You rarely see huge trades amongst division rivals but you have to wonder if the Twins would get involved in Sale or Q bidding. They need pitching in a MAJOR way and have the bullets. Some of their top prospects/young players have lost a bit of their glimmer, but that may even help the Sox. Buxton, Sano, Berrios, Kepler, etc...plus some of the younger pieces that are still in the minors. Twins never going to be able to spend to acquire top of the rotation FAs so this would be a way. Twins had 5.40 ERA from their starters this year..

 

Long shot for sure, but an interesting trade partner.

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1.) Burdi or Nate Jones as Closer.

2.) Robertson traded for anything they can get for him.

3.) Shields traded for anything, nothing or, DFAed. He cannot be on this team next season because of his attitude, declining velocity, and inconsistent performance.

4,) Trade or DFA Avisail Garcia.

5.) Trade Lawrie. Sanchez and Saladino can replace him at second.

6.) Sign Austin Jackson for CF

7.) Charlie Tilson as back-up CF

8.) Narvaez stays as back-up catcher. Starting catcher remains a question mark.

9.) Keep Sale, Q, Rodon, and Gonzo and look for a legit 5th starter.

10.) Don't resign Morneau. That leaves DH as a need but should not be that difficult to fill.

 

Then see what can be done with trades or promotions from the minors.

 

 

I already miss having the Sox on when I come home. I won't be watching the North siders unless there is an elimination game and someone calls me to watch in the ninth.

 

 

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QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 04:10 PM)
You rarely see huge trades amongst division rivals but you have to wonder if the Twins would get involved in Sale or Q bidding. They need pitching in a MAJOR way and have the bullets. Some of their top prospects/young players have lost a bit of their glimmer, but that may even help the Sox. Buxton, Sano, Berrios, Kepler, etc...plus some of the younger pieces that are still in the minors. Twins never going to be able to spend to acquire top of the rotation FAs so this would be a way. Twins had 5.40 ERA from their starters this year..

 

Long shot for sure, but an interesting trade partner.

 

Trading Buxton or Sano makes as much sense as the Sox dealing Anderson or Rodon. They need a good young SS more than they need to overpay for Sale or Q. Someone like Jean Segura was available to nearly every team in baseball for almost nothing...they went with Florimon/Escobar/Santana instead.

 

At best, they'd offer Berrios (if they have, in fact, soured on him) and Kepler, who they'd be selling high on...and then one other piece, but an obvious match doesn't exist.

 

The main problem is Sale would be leaving too early for their contention window, and Q just isn't returning the premium package because he's worth more to the Sox than other teams. As it is, they have to figure out how to pay Dozier and what to do with Plouffe.

Edited by caulfield12

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Why would anyone want Austin Jackson back? He was pretty awful here and showed a huge decline in power. Looks to me like his days of being an everyday starter are over.

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QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 06:58 PM)
1.) Burdi or Nate Jones as Closer.

2.) Robertson traded for anything they can get for him.

3.) Shields traded for anything, nothing or, DFAed. He cannot be on this team next season because of his attitude, declining velocity, and inconsistent performance.

4,) Trade or DFA Avisail Garcia.

5.) Trade Lawrie. Sanchez and Saladino can replace him at second.

6.) Sign Austin Jackson for CF

7.) Charlie Tilson as back-up CF

8.) Narvaez stays as back-up catcher. Starting catcher remains a question mark.

9.) Keep Sale, Q, Rodon, and Gonzo and look for a legit 5th starter.

10.) Don't resign Morneau. That leaves DH as a need but should not be that difficult to fill.

 

Then see what can be done with trades or promotions from the minors.

 

 

I already miss having the Sox on when I come home. I won't be watching the North siders unless there is an elimination game and someone calls me to watch in the ninth.

 

Ha

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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 06:59 PM)
Trading Buxton or Sano makes as much sense as the Sox dealing Anderson or Rodon. They need a good young SS more than they need to overpay for Sale or Q. Someone like Jean Segura was available to nearly every team in baseball for almost nothing...they went with Florimon/Escobar/Santana instead.

 

At best, they'd offer Berrios (if they have, in fact, soured on him) and Kepler, who they'd be selling high on...and then one other piece, but an obvious match doesn't exist.

 

The main problem is Sale would be leaving too early for their contention window, and Q just isn't returning the premium package because he's worth more to the Sox than other teams. As it is, they have to figure out how to pay Dozier and what to do with Plouffe.

 

Pedro Florimon hasn't played for the Twins since 2014 when he had 70 ABs.

 

I agree that the Twins probably won't trade Buxton or Sano, but they need pitching and they have peices to trade to get it. The Twins think they're closer to contention than you do (I tend to agree they're still a long way away), but again, that's mainly due to their horrific pitching. Like I said, probably not a fit there, but it's an out of the box trade partner whose needs match up.

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QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 07:08 PM)
Why would anyone want Austin Jackson back? He was pretty awful here and showed a huge decline in power. Looks to me like his days of being an everyday starter are over.

Awful? He played in 54 games and was on the upswing before the injury. If you took Abreu's first 54 games, you could say he's awful too.

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QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 08:21 PM)
Awful? He played in 54 games and was on the upswing before the injury. If you took Abreu's first 54 games, you could say he's awful too.

Seriously go look at his numbers last 3 years.

2014 - .655 OPS, 155 games played.

2015 - .696 OPS, 136 games played

2016 - .661 OPS, 54 games played.

 

Want him back? Fine. He's the kind of guy you pick up when you've committed to rebuilding and you don't have a strong organizational candidate for CF. If he's healthy in the first half and outperforms any of those years, you trade him at the deadline. You tell me that's the starting CF on a competitive team? That's a Rick Hahn Special.

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I want some fresh faces on this staff. New bench coach, new hitting coach and 3rd base coach.

 

 

Then execute the rebuild plan. Sell everyone but don't be afraid to keep Sale if you can't get what you want. I feel confident in being able to get what we want for Q and others. I truly believe with the bare pitching market this winter in free agency, we can get what we want for Sale and rebuild and start a new core (Eaton, Anderson, Rodon, Fulmer, Burdi, Collins, etc.). It'll be rough for 2 years but this team will be set for contention for years and that's a hell of a lot better than Kenny and Jerry's lightning in a bottle plan.

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I still think the Sox will still try to compete next year, but do so by acquiring young players that can make an impact right away. I'd like to note I'm in favor of a complete teardown, instead of this semi-rebuild which I am about to propose:

 

Sox trade Quintana and Brett Lawrie for Yoan Moncada, Eduardo Rodriguez, and Blake Swihart

 

Sox Sign Carlos Gomez 1 yr/8M deal with option

 

Sox sign Chris Coghlan 1/5M deal

 

Sox Sign Pedro Alvarez 2 yr/18M

 

Sox Sign Geo Soto

 

Eaton

Anderson

Abreu

Frazier

Alvarez

Melky

Gomez

Moncada

Swihart/Soto

 

Coghlan

Saladino

Swihart/Soto

Tilson

 

Rotation

1. Sale

2. Rodon

3. Shields

4. Gonzalez

5. Rodriguez/Fulmer

 

Pen

CL. Robertson

SU Jones

SU Burdi

MR Putnam

MR Jennings

MR Petricka

MR Rodriguez/Fulmer

 

 

 

 

 

 

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QUOTE (Dunt @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 03:38 PM)
A big problem with rebuilding this offseason is that a lot of the best prospects in the game right now are in rebuilding organizations. You can sit there and hope the Red Sox will trade a package of Benintendi, Moncada, Devers, etc., but they don't need to trade for pitching. The Dodgers don't really need to either honestly. The good teams have insulated themselves so they don't have to overpay. I dont see a ton of guys out there right now that are going to come up and be no doubt offensive studs. Would you trade a guy like Q to the Pirates for a deal centered around Austin Meadows maybe? Do you really foresee the Yankees trading a bunch of the guys they just acquired for an ace? This looks like a really bad situation the Sox are in. Hope Jerry is ready to break open that piggy bank.

Once again the world conspires against the White Sox right? Funny how that always happens. When the opportunity arrives for us to sell two quality SP....no one is willing to meet our demands, prospects are too highly regarded (ad if they're ever not), or as you suggest the best prospects are in rebuilding organizations.

 

Basically, Boston and LA won't trade any of their premier talent because they don't need to; and the lesser teams won't because they're rebuilding. I'm not going to give Hahn a pass after the trade deadline debacle and neither should any of you should shrug your shoulders and say they're in a really bad situation. Too bad! Make it work Hahn. Whatever he needs to do to trade Q and or Sale for a haul of players to rebuild this team needs to occur. I don't care about "needing two willing people to trade," nope. No more excuses for Hahn. He needs to deeply evaluable every viable prospect and major league player to assemble his trade package. There should be 30+ proposals at his disposal, one for every team. Even those with no chance of considering. This offseason will determine the course of our future, he should be acting as much

 

Let's not act like breaking open the piggy bank is any less of an impossibility. Especially since it'll do little to improve a team with too many holes to fill in one offseason

Edited by Flash Tizzle

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QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 07:16 PM)
Pedro Florimon hasn't played for the Twins since 2014 when he had 70 ABs.

 

I agree that the Twins probably won't trade Buxton or Sano, but they need pitching and they have peices to trade to get it. The Twins think they're closer to contention than you do (I tend to agree they're still a long way away), but again, that's mainly due to their horrific pitching. Like I said, probably not a fit there, but it's an out of the box trade partner whose needs match up.

 

Polanco was the name...I knew a P was in there somewhere.

 

At any rate, they still don't have a SS unless Nick Gordon undergoes an amazing transformation.

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QUOTE (professa @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 10:33 PM)
I still think the Sox will still try to compete next year, but do so by acquiring young players that can make an impact right away. I'd like to note I'm in favor of a complete teardown, instead of this semi-rebuild which I am about to propose:

 

Sox trade Quintana and Brett Lawrie for Yoan Moncada, Eduardo Rodriguez, and Blake Swihart

 

Sox Sign Carlos Gomez 1 yr/8M deal with option

 

Sox sign Chris Coghlan 1/5M deal

 

Sox Sign Pedro Alvarez 2 yr/18M

 

Sox Sign Geo Soto

C/mon Man. Get real. Do you think Boston will give up Moncada? No way. After popping $60 Million for him?

And you think Sox will throw $18 Large at Pedro Alvarez??? What??

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QUOTE (professa @ Oct 4, 2016 -> 12:33 AM)
I still think the Sox will still try to compete next year, but do so by acquiring young players that can make an impact right away. I'd like to note I'm in favor of a complete teardown, instead of this semi-rebuild which I am about to propose:

 

Sox trade Quintana and Brett Lawrie for Yoan Moncada, Eduardo Rodriguez, and Blake Swihart

 

Sox Sign Carlos Gomez 1 yr/8M deal with option

 

Sox sign Chris Coghlan 1/5M deal

 

Sox Sign Pedro Alvarez 2 yr/18M

 

Sox Sign Geo Soto

 

Eaton

Anderson

Abreu

Frazier

Alvarez

Melky

Gomez

Moncada

Swihart/Soto

 

Coghlan

Saladino

Swihart/Soto

Tilson

 

Rotation

1. Sale

2. Rodon

3. Shields

4. Gonzalez

5. Rodriguez/Fulmer

 

Pen

CL. Robertson

SU Jones

SU Burdi

MR Putnam

MR Jennings

MR Petricka

MR Rodriguez/Fulmer

 

Swihart was converted to a left fielder. He did not make the grade as a catcher on a Boston team that is pretty weak at the position.

 

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