lasttriptotulsa Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 (edited) Harold Baines will be on the ballot for possible induction into the HOF by the "Today's Game Era Committee" along with Albert Belle, Will Clark, Orel Hershiser, Davey Johnson, Mark McGwire, Lou Piniella, John Schuerholz, Bud Selig and George Steinbrenner. Probably won't get in and I've always viewed him as a little shy of being deserving but as a Sox fan I would like to see it happen. There are definitely worse players in the HOF. http://baseballhall.org/hof/2017-todays-game-era-ballot Edited October 3, 2016 by lasttriptotulsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thad Bosley Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 12:38 PM) Harold Baines will be on the ballot for possible induction into the HOF by the "Game Era Committee" along with Albert Belle, Will Clark, Orel Hershiser, Davey Johnson, Mark McGwire, Lou Piniella, John Schuerholz, Bud Selig and George Steinbrenner. Probably won't get in and I've always viewed him as a little shy of being deserving but as a Sox fan I would like to see it happen. There are definitely worse players in the HOF. http://baseballhall.org/hof/2017-todays-game-era-ballot Just 16 home runs and 134 hits separates him from being just shy and a near shoe-in. The combo of the 16 homers and 134 hits would have put him in a very exclusive club of guys who had 3,000 hits AND 400 home runs. If you check the records, I believe there are fewer than ten who have accomplished both feats (admitting I haven't looked at this stat in a while). I thought back in 2001 when Frank Thomas went down with a season-ending injury and they plugged Baines into the DH slot that he would get there. But he was 41 at the time and had just flat run out of gas, and they ended up releasing him in June of that year, if I recall correctly. So close, yet so far, unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted October 3, 2016 Author Share Posted October 3, 2016 Case For Inducation: His 2866 hits and 1628 RBIs are the most of any eligible player, without PED suspicion that is not in the HOF. .289/.356/.465 - 121 OPS+ 384 HRs (65th all time) 1628 RBIs (32nd all time) 2866 Hits (45th all time) 4604 Total Bases (41st all time) 1606 Runs Created (69th all time) 6X All Star 1X Silver Slugger 2X Top 10 MVP voting 2X Edgar Martinez Award winnger Case Against Induction: 38.4 fWAR - far short of the 60 that Bill James has used as a standard to talk HOF DH factor - 1643 games as DH, just 1061 in the OF Classic Compiler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 01:50 PM) Case For Inducation: His 2866 hits and 1628 RBIs are the most of any eligible player, without PED suspicion that is not in the HOF. .289/.356/.465 - 121 OPS+ 384 HRs (65th all time) 1628 RBIs (32nd all time) 2866 Hits (45th all time) 4604 Total Bases (41st all time) 1606 Runs Created (69th all time) 6X All Star 1X Silver Slugger 2X Top 10 MVP voting 2X Edgar Martinez Award winnger Case Against Induction: 38.4 fWAR - far short of the 60 that Bill James has used as a standard to talk HOF DH factor - 1643 games as DH, just 1061 in the OF Classic Compiler He was a pretty good OF before the leg problems. Not a HOFer in my mind. Defintely a could have been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted October 3, 2016 Author Share Posted October 3, 2016 QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 01:48 PM) Just 16 home runs and 134 hits separates him from being just shy and a near shoe-in. The combo of the 16 homers and 134 hits would have put him in a very exclusive club of guys who had 3,000 hits AND 400 home runs. If you check the records, I believe there are fewer than ten who have accomplished both feats (admitting I haven't looked at this stat in a while). I thought back in 2001 when Frank Thomas went down with a season-ending injury and they plugged Baines into the DH slot that he would get there. But he was 41 at the time and had just flat run out of gas, and they ended up releasing him in June of that year, if I recall correctly. So close, yet so far, unfortunately. The '94 strike might have cost him the 400 homers but I don't think that would help his case that much. Being short of 3000 hits really cost him. If he gets that, he's in. I was always hoping he would get there and with the resurgence he had at age 40 I thought he had a shot but then he just completely hit a wall the next year and faded pretty quick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted October 3, 2016 Author Share Posted October 3, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 01:53 PM) He was a pretty good OF before the leg problems. Not a HOFer in my mind. Defintely a could have been. Yep. Agreed. I view him pretty much the same way I view Ventura. Hall of Fame talent whose career fell a little short of being Hall of Fame worthy. With the increasing acceptance of advanced statistics I do think Ventura will get a closer look if he makes it onto a Today's Game Era ballot than he did on the original ballot. His 56.7 career fWAR is pretty damn good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Jack29 Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 Harold was one of my favorite players back in the day, but I agree that his numbers don't merit a spot in Cooperstown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 01:59 PM) Harold was one of my favorite players back in the day, but I agree that his numbers don't merit a spot in Cooperstown. This. I love the dude, but not a HOF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 (edited) Great career, but compiler makes sense. Only hit 30 doubles twice. Never hit more than 25 homers. Only stole as many as 10 bases once. Never walked 75 times. Consistent as can be. A huge weapon in the line up, but if he's a HOFer, they need to open up several more wings. And I don't hold being primarily a DH against him. The voters have to come to grips with the fact that the DH has been a position for over 40 years. Edited October 3, 2016 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 Harold Baines is my favorite Sox player of all time, but I agree he is a notch shy of HOF. He was one of the best clutch hitters ever to wear a Sox Jersey, shame his knees went bad so early in career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 02:48 PM) Just 16 home runs and 134 hits separates him from being just shy and a near shoe-in. The combo of the 16 homers and 134 hits would have put him in a very exclusive club of guys who had 3,000 hits AND 400 home runs. If you check the records, I believe there are fewer than ten who have accomplished both feats (admitting I haven't looked at this stat in a while). I thought back in 2001 when Frank Thomas went down with a season-ending injury and they plugged Baines into the DH slot that he would get there. But he was 41 at the time and had just flat run out of gas, and they ended up releasing him in June of that year, if I recall correctly. So close, yet so far, unfortunately. And the 1981+1994 strikes very well could be the reason he doesn't just have them. I do agree that he's probably one of the very best of the Hall of Very Good players, but still, he has a better argument than some others in the Hall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 04:02 PM) And the 1981+1994 strikes very well could be the reason he doesn't just have them. I do agree that he's probably one of the very best of the Hall of Very Good players, but still, he has a better argument than some others in the Hall. I think he is the hitting version of Tommy John. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donaldo Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 01:50 PM) DH factor - 1643 games as DH, just 1061 in the OF If he would've played OF his entire career, he'd probably be in already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thad Bosley Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 QUOTE (Soxfest @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 01:10 PM) Harold Baines is my favorite Sox player of all time, but I agree he is a notch shy of HOF. He was one of the best clutch hitters ever to wear a Sox Jersey, shame his knees went bad so early in career. I would say THE best clutch hitter, so much so that for my money, if there are two outs in the bottom of the ninth with the tying run at third base, and Harold Baines and Frank Thomas are on the bench, I go with Bainesy every single time. He was that good in the clutch IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted October 4, 2016 Author Share Posted October 4, 2016 QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Oct 4, 2016 -> 08:15 AM) I would say THE best clutch hitter, so much so that for my money, if there are two outs in the bottom of the ninth with the tying run at third base, and Harold Baines and Frank Thomas are on the bench, I go with Bainesy every single time. He was that good in the clutch IMO. Just for s***s and giggles I looked at some splits in certain clutch situations for comparison sake: Runner on 3rd, 2 out (your scenario): Baines - .236/.349/.362 Thomas - .298/.464/.599 RISP: Baines - .291/.379/.460 Thomas - .312/.447/.569 RISP, 2 out: Baines - .280/.392/.448 Thomas - .291/.453/.565 Late & Close: Baines - .284/.360/.474 Thomas - .275/.412/.482 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Oct 4, 2016 -> 10:19 AM) Just for s***s and giggles I looked at some splits in certain clutch situations for comparison sake: Runner on 3rd, 2 out (your scenario): Baines - .236/.349/.362 Thomas - .298/.464/.599 RISP: Baines - .291/.379/.460 Thomas - .312/.447/.569 RISP, 2 out: Baines - .280/.392/.448 Thomas - .291/.453/.565 Late & Close: Baines - .284/.360/.474 Thomas - .275/.412/.482 Crazy that folks have already forgotten how monstrous Frank was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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