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2016 Presidential Election Thread

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QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 07:51 AM)
Several of you honestly need to stand back and breathe. I'm surprised reputable posters are questioning how in the world they'll raise their children during his presidency, or predicting some sort of apocalyptic scenario where this country implodes from within. I honestly see a lot of the post Cubs World Series, doom and gloom for our White Sox type of mentality here. Listen, our candidate lost; we need to accept it, stop whining, and learn from our mistakes. Looking back now it's a wonder we all didn't see it coming.

 

I voted for Clinton because overall I was more in line with her political values and aspirations. However, I'd never consider myself a staunch, vote Democrat blindly down the ballot type of person. There were several points I agreed with Trump, but not enough to make up for his character flaws. What astonished me through all of this is the invincibility of Trump. Nothing could take this man down -- not even his own political party! All the video recordings, comments, soundbites only reinforced his position as an outsider. What I would perceive as a detriment (no political experience, playboy lifestyle, ridiculous comments) the general public viewed as the model for anti-establishment. His opponent? The epitome of the establishment; a continuation of everything as it is with Obama. A woman submerged in politics and incapable of giving a heartfelt smile.

 

One of Clinton's downfall, as MSF mentioned, was not representing the middle class. Categorizing Trump's voting base as "deplorables" and constantly harping on about how homophobic, xenophobic, racist he is obviously wasn't the right strategy. For her, nothing would have worked because she was a TERRIBLE candidate. It was believed the media shamelessly promoted her, the DNC was rigged, her private server mess, and let's not forget about her 9/11 memorial Zombie walk. it was all just too much for voters to overcome. Sanders voters weren't supportive, Minority voters weren't enthusiastic about her, and those undecided either leaned towards Trump or didn't vote

 

What's really sad is Trump, through all his ridiculousness, energized the Republican voters. He was the creation of every stereotype come to life, and no one took him seriously until it was too late. As if some kid wished upon a star and created him one night 70 years ago for this purpose. We had to rely on Westworld Hillary.....one of the oldest hosts in the park.

 

 

I also voted for Clinton/Kaine (most of my family didn't). I spent last night watching coverage with disbelief, but this morning, have a very hard time seeing the nightmare scenarios that so many people are fearing getting off the ground, let alone coming anywhere close to fruition. I see this as a temporary impediment of progress rather than a ticket directly back to medieval times. Let's not forget that Trump's own party wasn't thrilled about his nomination- so, despite the Republican majorities in place now, I think he'll be moderated by them. I'm more concerned about what happens to the Supreme Court going forward.

 

I'm also not going to look at everyone who voted for him as bigots who yearn for the days Nazi-era Germany. Obviously, some exist, and that's terrifying, but as was mentioned above, painting everyone who voted for Trump with that broad and disgusting brush (as anti-women, anti-anything not white, anti-gay, anti-anything not Christian) probably wasn't the right way to go about it, and it wouldn't surprise me if that played a role in what we just saw take place. The reality is what it is. The next four years likely won't be glorious (are they ever?), but based on a lot of the reactions, you'd think that the overnight black burlap sack over the head arrests were in full swing already.

 

I hope I'm right.

 

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I think most of Trump's stuff was election rhetoric.

 

Especially in regard to abortion and social issues.

 

He hit home with rust belt manufacturing issues and it carried Ohio, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan.

 

The sexist, racist, homophobic mantra I felt was the right blowing up matters and is not what we are getting from him in the long run.

 

I do think he will crack down much harder on illegal immigration and am curious how the job shifting back from overseas and taxes will work out but fiscally I don't see us in a worse place 4 years from now.

 

 

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QUOTE (brett05 @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 03:11 PM)
Watching some take comments way out of context. And where have you been?

 

What's the context for claiming Barack Obama is a foreign Muslim illegally holding office?

What's the context for tweeting fake crime statistics about black people?

What's the context for portraying most illegal immigrants as criminals or rapists (but some are okay people) Or indicating that a judge can't fairly judge his case because of his Mexican heritage?

What's the context for the constant racial dog-whistles?

What's the context for making up lies about American Muslims engaging in huge celebrations for 9/11?

What's the context for all of Trump's crude comments objectifying and demeaning women?

 

I mean, really. How much does it take?

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QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 07:39 AM)
am curious how the job shifting back from overseas and taxes will work out

 

You honestly think manufacturing jobs will miraculously start coming back to the states because of Trump? I have some great land to sell you in Florida.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 09:20 AM)
If most if not all of Trump's promises like a wall, throwing 11 million illegals out, high paying jobs for uneducated people with no skills, while paying little taxes, don't come to fruition, and just turn into the lies he's been spewing for ironically 30 years about himself, how long before the natives turn on him?

 

 

Another scary thing, Rudy Guilianni as Attorney General. He's as nuts as Trump.

 

 

I just wonder what the deal is with Pence. Didn't the Trump campaign basically offer Kasich the Presidency without the title if he joined the ticket? Pence may have received the same deal, and he's scary too.

 

So this gets to an interesting point made by someone on the NBC telecast last night - it was pretty clear that the media and people in Washington took a lot of what Trump said literally and expected that voters would take him literally too. In reality it appears that the voters took him figuratively. If true, if he fails to build a wall, or if he fails to implement a system to deport 11 million people (i mean both are obviously unrealistic), I don't think anyone will be surprised, including those that voted for him.

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QUOTE (Swingandalongonetoleft @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 10:29 AM)
I also voted for Clinton/Kaine (most of my family didn't). I spent last night watching coverage with disbelief, but this morning, have a very hard time seeing the nightmare scenarios that so many people are fearing getting off the ground, let alone coming anywhere close to fruition. I see this as a temporary impediment of progress rather than a ticket directly back to medieval times. Let's not forget that Trump's own party wasn't thrilled about his nomination- so, despite the Republican majorities in place now, I think he'll be moderated by them. I'm more concerned about what happens to the Supreme Court going forward.

 

I'm also not going to look at everyone who voted for him as bigots who yearn for the days Nazi-era Germany. Obviously, some exist, and that's terrifying, but as was mentioned above, painting everyone who voted for Trump with that broad and disgusting brush (as anti-women, anti-anything not white, anti-gay, anti-anything not Christian) probably wasn't the right way to go about it, and it wouldn't surprise me if that played a role in what we just saw take place. The reality is what it is. The next four years likely won't be glorious (are they ever?), but based on a lot of the reactions, you'd think that the overnight black burlap sack over the head arrests were in full swing already.

 

I hope I'm right.

 

If Pence has any power in the administration (likely assumption), then this election is bad for LGBT rights.

 

Without any opposition party in power, the Republicans will have two years to pass their legislation, largely unfettered - including at least one Supreme Court justice. That will be bad for LGBT rights, that will be bad for the working poor, and that will be bad for people who have pre-existing health issues that will prevent them from being insured when the ACA is repealed. To the extent that you are at all worried about the effects of climate change, this result is really bad for that as well.

 

Because of the rhetoric of Trump's campaign, it is very shortsighted to not recognize the fears of Muslim-Americans, Mexican-Americans, and African-Americans as a result of this election. Trump appealed to a Rust Belt that did not recover from 2008, and, frankly, from the globalization of the economy. Clinton underestimated that and it cost her PA, WI, MI, OH and the election. But it would be naive to ignore the nativist, isolationist undertones from Trump's campaign.

 

Trump's acceptance speech was a good start. And I hope that I'm wrong about everything that I typed above. I hope that the Trump Administration governs on behalf of all Americans and that the concerns of segments of our country stemming from the rhetoric in the election are unfounded. I also hope that this is a wake-up call to Democrats, and we are back to a divided government at this time in 2018.

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QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 09:47 AM)
You honestly think manufacturing jobs will miraculously start coming back to the states because of Trump? I have some great land to sell you in Florida.

 

no I don't that is why I am curious to see how/if it plays out.

 

That was how he got elected as I believe he swept those states impacted by it. Other than the folks in Illinois that cannot seem to grasp the concept of big government and over taxation from the local to the state level, he cleaned up in teh rust belt.

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QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 09:47 AM)
You honestly think manufacturing jobs will miraculously start coming back to the states because of Trump? I have some great land to sell you in Florida.

 

Yeah the big problem here is that our manufacturing output has actually been really high recently. Those jobs were mostly lost because of technology. I could see him getting coal/steel type jobs back if he puts big tariffs on the import of those raw materials, or being more ok with pipelines, but those are pretty small groups of people that would be affected by any change (relative to the amount of people hoping that he can help them).

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What's funny to me is that people are freaking out as if this is some sign that the country has flipped, but really it's the same country with just a minor tweak. If 2-300k more democrats (blacks especially) had voted in Detroit, Milwaukee and Pennsylvania, Clinton still likely wins and no one is talking about White American and the rest of the bulls*** overreaction.

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QUOTE (JenksIsMyHero @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 09:54 AM)
Yeah the big problem here is that our manufacturing output has actually been really high recently. Those jobs were mostly lost because of technology. I could see him getting coal/steel type jobs back if he puts big tariffs on the import of those raw materials, or being more ok with pipelines, but those are pretty small groups of people that would be affected by any change (relative to the amount of people hoping that he can help them).

 

I think the focus in those states is bringing the jobs back from Mexico and Canada that were lost via NAFTA. Once the infrastructure is built though, companies cannot just walk away.

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QUOTE (JenksIsMyHero @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 09:56 AM)
What's funny to me is that people are freaking out as if this is some sign that the country has flipped, but really it's the same country with just a minor tweak. If 2-300k more democrats (blacks especially) had voted in Detroit, Milwaukee and Pennsylvania, Clinton still likely wins and no one is talking about White American and the rest of the bulls*** overreaction.

People would still be talking about it if Clinton had won. They were talking about it on Twitter last night as soon as it was clear things were close.

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QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 09:57 AM)
I think the focus in those states is bringing the jobs back from Mexico and Canada that were lost via NAFTA. Once the infrastructure is built though, companies cannot just walk away.

 

Depends on how expensive it would be to stay overseas.

 

Tough to believe that Trump, a bottom line guy, would be so tough on businesses though. But that has been his mantra - tax breaks for american business here, huge tariffs/penalties for anything coming in. Then the question is whether those same voters are going to be ok paying more for their cheap China goods at Wal-mart.

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QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 07:47 AM)
You honestly think manufacturing jobs will miraculously start coming back to the states because of Trump? I have some great land to sell you in Florida.

These are the same people that buy everything at Wal-Mart...they want the jobs to come back to the US until they have to start paying for those American-made goods.

 

I have to say, I was never as proud of our country as I was in 2008. Now I've never been as embarrassed.

 

It's almost like I would have sacrificed Obama wining if I could have knowingly avoided Trump replacing him.

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QUOTE (shysocks @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 09:59 AM)
People would still be talking about it if Clinton had won. They were talking about it on Twitter last night as soon as it was clear things were close.

 

Not to the same degree. Not even close. If Clinton had won it would have been "closer than we thought, but a real sign of progress! American's love women!"

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QUOTE (JenksIsMyHero @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 09:54 AM)
Yeah the big problem here is that our manufacturing output has actually been really high recently. Those jobs were mostly lost because of technology. I could see him getting coal/steel type jobs back if he puts big tariffs on the import of those raw materials, or being more ok with pipelines, but those are pretty small groups of people that would be affected by any change (relative to the amount of people hoping that he can help them).

 

The tariff part is the most mind boggling of it all. Republican's used to be about free trade. NAFTA was actually passed by Republicans not Democrats in the house (Democrats voted 102-156 against the agreement, Republicans voted 132-43 in favor.)

 

I have no problem if people are upset about the economy, but (imo) the conclusions dont make any sense.

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QUOTE (JenksIsMyHero @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 10:56 AM)
What's funny to me is that people are freaking out as if this is some sign that the country has flipped, but really it's the same country with just a minor tweak. If 2-300k more democrats (blacks especially) had voted in Detroit, Milwaukee and Pennsylvania, Clinton still likely wins and no one is talking about White American and the rest of the bulls*** overreaction.

 

I don't know that that's why people are freaking out. In hindsight, it's pretty clear why Clinton lost the Rust Belt, but all of those races were much closer than ANYONE predicted. The votes out West basically followed the projections. The Rust Belt defied the polls (as did NC and Florida).

 

But this was a close election. In fact, Trump lost the popular vote. The impact, however, is a Republican controlled Congress and President, meaning that policies are going to flip, and there will be absolutely no check on those policies for 2 years.

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And on top of everything else, there is the Russian influence angle. US intelligence said they were trying to interfere, and it appears they have their candidate now in place.

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QUOTE (illinilaw08 @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 10:12 AM)
I don't know that that's why people are freaking out. In hindsight, it's pretty clear why Clinton lost the Rust Belt, but all of those races were much closer than ANYONE predicted. The votes out West basically followed the projections. The Rust Belt defied the polls (as did NC and Florida).

 

But this was a close election. In fact, Trump lost the popular vote. The impact, however, is a Republican controlled Congress and President, meaning that policies are going to flip, and there will be absolutely no check on those policies for 2 years.

 

I think it's similar to 2008 when Obama came into office, Dems controlled Congress and everyone thought it was going to be 2 or 4 years of non-stop policy change. And in reality little changed because of the infighting. Repubs don't typically have that, but there are some clear policy differences between Trump, Ryan and other top Repubs in Congress.

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QUOTE (JenksIsMyHero @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 10:17 AM)
I think it's similar to 2008 when Obama came into office, Dems controlled Congress and everyone thought it was going to be 2 or 4 years of non-stop policy change. And in reality little changed because of the infighting. Repubs don't typically have that, but there are some clear policy differences between Trump, Ryan and other top Repubs in Congress.

 

They have two years to do whatever it is there are going to do. Obamacare is gone, that's a fact. They better use this time to do something practical than try to go for abortion or gay rights. They need to prove they can be better than democrats.

 

EDIT:

 

otherwise they will change the both houses blue and let the obstructionist games continue.

Edited by pettie4sox

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QUOTE (JenksIsMyHero @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 11:17 AM)
I think it's similar to 2008 when Obama came into office, Dems controlled Congress and everyone thought it was going to be 2 or 4 years of non-stop policy change. And in reality little changed because of the infighting. Repubs don't typically have that, but there are some clear policy differences between Trump, Ryan and other top Repubs in Congress.

 

The Rs are, in my opinion, a lot more united on policy from leadership down on the big issues. It's tough for Ds to pass anything on the Progressive agenda because anything on the 2nd Amendment or a public option for health care are wedge issues down ballot. So Obama threw all his political capital into the ACA thinking that (1) he'd be able to get broad support; and (2) it was a step in the right direction. The ACA backfired (death panels and whatnot) and led to the Republicans winning back the House and the rest is history.

 

The Rs do have a vocal minority in the party, but that minority has seemed to really push and act when R leadership is reaching across the aisle. So, for instance, I don't think there will be pushback from the Rs on pulling funds from renewable energy. I don't think there will be pushback on Ryan's budget or on massive tax cuts to the top tier. In fact, the only issue that is of importance to me that the Senate might divide on is sale of public land. I know that Cory Gardener (CO's Republican Senator) has been against selling off public land in the West. Hopefully Gardner stays strong on that issue.

 

In any event, where I agree with you is that I think the Obama election galvanized the Republican Party. I'm hoping it does the same for the Democrats and makes the progressive wing stronger...

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A couple of lone bright spots for me include Kamala Harris and Tammy Duckworth. The Senate is finally becoming more diverse.

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