Potential + Effects of the World Series?

[Balta1701]

Best farm systems ever? KC had to be bad a long, long time and had a lot of misfires in their drafts.

 

Kluber was a trade. Besides Lindor, who on Cleveland is a top line guy they developed?

Royals farm system: best of the decade?

 

To answer your specific question:

They’ve done an excellent job, ranking fifth in the majors in 2016 in homegrown WAR. Francisco Lindor is the star product of the farm system, the eighth overall pick in the 2011 draft. Cody Allen was a steal in the 23rd round that same year. Jason Kipnis was a second-round pick in 2009 out of Arizona State. Josh Tomlin was drafted in the 19th round back in 2006 out of Texas Tech. Lonnie Chisenhall and Tyler Naquin were both first-round picks. Jose Ramirez and Danny Salazar were signed out of the Dominican Republic.

You're totally correct though, they have also done exceptionally well trading for other teams minor leaguers. I'd say that both drafting and developing well and making successful trades to build up your organization seems like the exact winning strategy used by both of those teams.

[Dick Allen]

Royals farm system: best of the decade?

 

To answer your specific question:

You're totally correct though, they have also done exceptionally well trading for other teams minor leaguers. I'd say that both drafting and developing well and making successful trades to build up your organization seems like the exact winning strategy used by both of those teams.

So you pull an article from 6 years ago asking if the Royals have the best farm system of the decade, which also mentions in it players that NEVER PLAYED FOR THE ROYALS?

 

And it was about where they were ranked that specific season. Not what they ultimately produced.

Edited November 3, 2016 by Dick Allen

[Balta1701]

So you pull an article from 6 years ago asking if the Royals have the best farm system of the decade, which also mentions in it players that NEVER PLAYED FOR THE ROYALS?

Their top 3 names from that article:

On the position player side, Eric Hosmer will likely rank in the top ten, Wil Myers and Mike Moustakas in the top 25,

Jesus Christ, you're really doing a poor job of trolling today. Yup, their top 3 players never played for the Royals. Not a single at bat.

[Dick Allen]

Their top 3 names from that article:

 

Jesus Christ, you're really doing a poor job of trolling today. Yup, their top 3 players never played for the Royals. Not a single at bat.

Who said their top 3 never played for the Royals? I said there were players that never played for the Royals. Of course, you in your haste to try to discredit me, and get anyone to ignore you made an error, mentioned one, unless Wil Myers played for a little league team named the Royals.

 

And since you mentioned they were the greatest, and also like to pull out fWAR why don't you look at the players YOU mentioned.

 

Hosmer 5.6 career WAR 888 games 1.0 fWAR/162 GAMES

Moustakas 9.8 career WAR 688 games 2.3 fWAR/162 GAMES

Myers (who was traded with another mentioned in that article for Wade Davis and James Shields) 6.7 career WAR in 392 games 2.7 fWAR/162 GAMES

 

Doesn't come out so stellar to me. Greatest of all time? Greatest of the decade? Not even close.

[Eminor3rd]

Best farm systems ever? KC had to be bad a long, long time and had a lot of misfires in their drafts.

 

KC didn't have to be bad for 30 years to develop the system, they just kept screwing it up. They "had" to be bad for like 3-4 years to net their current product.

[Lip Man 1]

Yea it might weigh them down as far as capping future payrolls but I have to think given the absolute bonanza this will be for the Cub's overall brand the additional revenue streams will largely offset or overcome that.

 

Money will be the least of their worries with the additional advertising revenue and again the elephant in the room, the soon to be Cubs TV Network.

 

Mark

 

[captain54]

Any debt payment is money that isn't able to go towards payroll. It isn't really that complex.

 

Do some research genius.. before talking out of your keyster and shooting your mouth off with another insulting comment..

 

when you have investors lining up out the door it takes an incredible amount of the burden off of any outstanding debt...

 

the Cubs had a substantial roster of investors in 2009... you can imagine what it is now...

 

its Economics 101

[Dick Allen]

KC didn't have to be bad for 30 years to develop the system, they just kept screwing it up. They "had" to be bad for like 3-4 years to net their current product.

Probably longer than that considering they got a big part of their team from trading Greinke. Yes it can get done without the gigantic blow outs to international free agents in 3 or 4 years if you don't miss, but all teams do miss.

[Hatchetman]

The Cubs just drew 340,000 in 8 postseason games. At $150/head (I have no idea) that would be $50 million bucks right there.

[Dick Allen]

The Cubs just drew 340,000 in 8 postseason games. At $150/head (I have no idea) that would be $50 million bucks right there.

Making the postseason is a real moneymaker.

[southsider2k5]

Do some research genius.. before talking out of your keyster and shooting your mouth off with another insulting comment..

 

when you have investors lining up out the door it takes an incredible amount of the burden off of any outstanding debt...

 

the Cubs had a substantial roster of investors in 2009... you can imagine what it is now...

 

its Economics 101

 

Since you seem to know. How many investors did the Cubs take on, and at what percentage did they buy in at? What portion of their debt service was paid off and what portion remains?

 

And just for the record, it is keister, and this isn't really economics as much as it is finance. Economics is a very different field.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

The Cubs just drew 340,000 in 8 postseason games. At $150/head (I have no idea) that would be $50 million bucks right there.

 

The post season teams don't keep the lions share of that money. MLB does.

[Hatchetman]

The post season teams don't keep the lions share of that money. MLB does.

 

 

LOL. JR must have been the mastermind of that. Some quick research shows the teams would split roughly 30% of the gate. Of course cubs would get 100% of concessions. My ticket prices of $150 I think were way low, so the Cubs must have made out quite nicely.

[captain54]

Since you seem to know. How many investors did the Cubs take on, and at what percentage did they buy in at? What portion of their debt service was paid off and what portion remains?

 

And just for the record, it is keister, and this isn't really economics as much as it is finance. Economics is a very different field.

 

thank you for the lesson in semantics.. I wouldn't really bother responding, but what the hell. .. here goes another 10 minutes or so of my life I'll never get back..

 

the implication in your post is that you seem to imply the Ricketts haven't quite got it figured out. they have incurred far too much debt and are incurring far too much payroll...why else would you even mention this? it's pointless...

 

The value of the Cubs franchise has substantially increased since 2009.. the debt service payment is a drop in the bucket.. especially with a new TV deal on the horizon

 

Do some of your own research on Cubs investors, please.... I'm not here to feed you information.... Also do some research on how the debt was configured to go long term.. to 2022 at minimum... and what that actually means..

 

The issue with the Cubs debt is more with the MLB Debt Service Rule than anything..

 

 

 

 

 

 

[captain54]

And just for the record, it is keister, and this isn't really economics as much as it is finance. Economics is a very different field.

 

from the Urban Dictionary:

 

keyster

a term for storing contraband in your rectum, common in prison

 

From the American Economic Association:

 

Economics can actually be defined a few different ways: it’s the study of scarcity, the study of how people use resources, or the study of decision-making. Economics often involves topics like wealth, finance, recessions, and banking,

 

[tray]

The Cubs just drew 340,000 in 8 postseason games. At $150/head (I have no idea) that would be $50 million bucks right there.

 

Should help to pay the $184 Million they owe Heyward.

But Joe Ricketts family venture, aka, the Cubs, has hundreds of millions to throw around without any limit on their spending.

Unless the league puts in a comprehensive revenue sharing agreement and an enforceable salary cap, there will only be few teams like the Cubs that can afford to compete

every year.

 

 

[chitownsportsfan]

I gotta agree with Captain here. From everything I've read the payroll concerns on the N. Side have been vastly over stated and probably emerged mostly out of the wake of the Wilbon's exposure in the Maddon ponzi scheme.

 

Is Rickets the most liquid and well financed owner in MLB? Nah, probably not even close. But the asset he's sitting on just probably increased it's value by 15-30%. If he wants to leverage that into a higher payroll I'd imagine he'll find a way.

 

It didn't stop them from quickly building the best team in MLB so how the hell is it an issue going forward now that Rickets just turned the Cubs into a money tree? If they weren't before, they sure as s*** are now.

[chitownsportsfan]

Should help to pay the $184 Million they owe Heyward.

But Joe Ricketts family venture, aka, the Cubs, has hundreds of millions to throw around without any limit on their spending.

Unless the league puts in a comprehensive revenue sharing agreement and an enforceable salary cap, there will only be few teams like the Cubs that can afford to compete

every year.

 

Good one. Last time I checked the Indians and Royals have been in three straight world series. I guess if you literally mean EVERY year then sure, there's only a few clubs (Sawx, Dodgers, Yankees, Cubs) that could maintain a massive 200 million payroll from a team laden with star vets.

 

But when is the last time a team laden with star veterans (and imported, high price tag FA) won the world series? It's all about arb-eligible youth and locking your home grown talent up to team friendly deals early so you avoid the perils of FA. Maybe you could point to the '13 Red Sox.

Edited November 3, 2016 by chitownsportsfan

[Balta1701]

Good one. Last time I checked the Indians and Royals have been in three straight world series. I guess if you literally mean EVERY year then sure, there's only a few clubs (Sawx, Dodgers, Yankees, Cubs) that could maintain a massive 200 million payroll from a team laden with star vets.

 

But when is the last time a team laden with star veterans (and imported, high price tag FA) won the world series? It's all about arb-eligible youth and locking your home grown talent up to team friendly deals early so you avoid the perils of FA. Maybe you could point to the '13 Red Sox.

2009 Yankees.

[chitownsportsfan]

2009 Yankees.

 

The ya go. That is a different era of MLB baseball imo.

[southsider2k5]

thank you for the lesson in semantics.. I wouldn't really bother responding, but what the hell. .. here goes another 10 minutes or so of my life I'll never get back..

 

the implication in your post is that you seem to imply the Ricketts haven't quite got it figured out. they have incurred far too much debt and are incurring far too much payroll...why else would you even mention this? it's pointless...

 

The value of the Cubs franchise has substantially increased since 2009.. the debt service payment is a drop in the bucket.. especially with a new TV deal on the horizon

 

Do some of your own research on Cubs investors, please.... I'm not here to feed you information.... Also do some research on how the debt was configured to go long term.. to 2022 at minimum... and what that actually means..

 

The issue with the Cubs debt is more with the MLB Debt Service Rule than anything..

 

So you don't actually have real knowledge on the facts here, just what you think is happening?

[chitownsportsfan]

So you don't actually have real knowledge on the facts here, just what you think is happening?

 

As always you refuse to consider the evidence we have in front of us. I don't need to shove my head up a bull's ass to get a good look at the T-Bone steak. I'll just take the well reviewed Butcher's word for it.

 

The Cubs just won the world series with a fairly high payroll. Who in the right mind would even give a 2nd thought to the debt service? They are a money pinanta and the new TV deal coupled with their success is a mace being swung by Brock Lesnar.

[southsider2k5]

As always you refuse to consider the evidence we have in front of us. I don't need to shove my head up a bull's ass to get a good look at the T-Bone steak. I'll just take the well reviewed Butcher's word for it.

 

The Cubs just won the world series with a fairly high payroll. Who in the right mind would even give a 2nd thought to the debt service? They are a money pinanta and the new TV deal coupled with their success is a mace being swung by Brock Lesnar.

 

What evidence? That is what I am asking for. He just told me how the Cubs debt service apparently isn't there anymore because they brought on other partners earlier. All I want to know is what the actual impact was, since he is speaking of it as a fact.

 

I've read about the debt service in the past, and even saw it referred to as recently as last winter as a reason the Cubs show an artificially high profit margin, and weren't spending as much as other teams in their revenue neighborhood. What I haven't seen is a single source actually refer to that debt service being reduced in anything other than innuendo.

 

If there are facts out there, I would like to know them.

[chitownsportsfan]

What evidence? Dude I don't know what else to say. It's like trying to describe color to a blind person. They won the world series and built the best team in MLB.

 

How bad can the debt problem possibly be? It didn't stop them from paying the best GM in sports. It didn't stop them from hiring the best manager in MLB. It didn't stop them from signing Fowler. It didn't stop them from building one of the best International systems.

 

Now that they have won the WS, now is the time to worry about the debt?

 

Come. On. Man. I know you like to be a contrarian but there's nothing here to build any sort of argument on. If your argument is we don't know what the debt payments are then no ****.

Edited November 3, 2016 by chitownsportsfan

[southsider2k5]

What evidence? Dude I don't know what else to say. It's like trying to describe color to a blind person. They won the world series and built the best team in MLB.

 

How bad can the debt problem possibly be? It didn't stop them from paying the best GM in sports. It didn't stop them from hiring the best manager in MLB. It didn't stop them from signing Fowler. It didn't stop them from building one of the best International systems.

 

Now that they have won the WS, now is the time to worry about the debt?

 

Come. On. Man. I know you like to be a contrarian but there's nothing here to build any sort of argument on. If your argument is we don't know what the debt payments are then no ****.

 

You and I have very different views on evidence apparently. I mean there are a ton of non sequitors in the post that sound great and compelling together, but none of that is the actual point.

 

When you are talking about the debt service, you are talking about a number that would cover the highest salary in baseball. Yes, it is significant to the Cubs at some level. It hasn't stopped them so far, but they also haven't hit the most expensive years on their roster yet either.

 

If that number has changed as was previously claimed, that makes a large different to the bottom line of the team. The difference could be the room to pay Mike Trout or Clayton Kershaw's most expensive years, in additional annual revenue, per YEAR.

 

So yes, if that number has really changed, it will change the bottom line of this team. It would be nice to know if that is theory or if there is fact out there on this, and not just a guy talking in counterfactuals.