southsider2k5 Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 670 The Score @670TheScore 2h2 hours ago White Sox patiently wait for bigger trade offers for Chris Sale as Winter Meetings approach, writes @MLBBruceLevine http://cbsloc.al/2gbKFMs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 Watch them wait for weeks and then not pull the trigger on anything. That would be so typical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 I don't think levine is a good beat reporter, but I do worry that sox operate passively in trade talks and force teams to go to them vs. initiate bidding wars. But reality is I think sox are just waiting for CBA to be resolved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Nov 28, 2016 -> 03:27 PM) Watch them wait for weeks and then not pull the trigger on anything. That would be so typical. ....and then get the haul they wanted after all the Sox fans that are left have blew a gasket and leaked all over themselves in anger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 QUOTE (bmags @ Nov 28, 2016 -> 03:29 PM) I don't think levine is a good beat reporter, but I do worry that sox operate passively in trade talks and force teams to go to them vs. initiate bidding wars. But reality is I think sox are just waiting for CBA to be resolved. This is entirely CBA related right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 QUOTE (raBBit @ Nov 28, 2016 -> 01:36 PM) They will trade Sale. Welcome to the party, Mr. Unequivocal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 Why would the CBA hold up a Sale trade? The only issue IMO is the luxury tax, and he doesn't make $30 million a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 (edited) One question that I've been wondering is what if the owners back down on international draft. All of those teams like cubs/dodgers etc that banked on the int'l trade replacing current system - WOuld they be screwed? What was punishment on them for length of time they are not allowed to sign Int'l talent? Or would they be helped in that they can once again raid the system for huge classes and take their 1-2 year punishments. edit: previous post said international trade not draft. Edited November 28, 2016 by bmags Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 28, 2016 -> 02:23 PM) MLB Trade Rumors @mlbtraderumors 2h2 hours ago Twins Hire Torii Hunter, Michael Cuddyer, LaTroy Hawkins As Special Assistants http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/11/twins-hire-torii-hunter-michael-cuddyer-latroy-hawkins-as-special-assistants.html …://http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/...sistants.html …://http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/...sistants.html … Good. I've said it before and I will say it again, Sox hold the chips here. Get what you want or don't trade him. I don't want some garbage deal that doesn't include multiple headliners. The Sox need to win this trade massively - the future of the franchise relies on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 QUOTE (raBBit @ Nov 28, 2016 -> 03:51 PM) All these reports are pretty much bogus IMO. It's more than luxury tax though. International draft, 26th man and I am sure a couple of other things. PLayers and owners are making ridiculous amounts of money. They're just posturing. Yes, but why would any of that hold up a Sale trade? I can see holding off on a guy if there is a question about luxury tax, but he is making Bartolo Colon money. The other stuff, the GMs aren't negotiating, and why it would affect a Sale trade is beyond me. I just think the grand slam offer hasn't been made yet. I don't think the CBA status has anything to o with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 28, 2016 -> 03:56 PM) Yes, but why would any of that hold up a Sale trade? I can see holding off on a guy if there is a question about luxury tax, but he is making Bartolo Colon money. The other stuff, the GMs aren't negotiating, and why it would affect a Sale trade is beyond me. I just think the grand slam offer hasn't been made yet. I don't think the CBA status has anything to o with it. And based on what rabbit said, he agrees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Hurtin Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Nov 28, 2016 -> 04:27 PM) Watch them wait for weeks and then not pull the trigger on anything. That would be so typical. or months..., or years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Nov 28, 2016 -> 09:55 PM) Good. I've said it before and I will say it again, Sox hold the chips here. Get what you want or don't trade him. I don't want some garbage deal that doesn't include multiple headliners. The Sox need to win this trade massively - the future of the franchise relies on it. This is exactly the way it should be. If we don't get the return we deserve for a player of Sale's caliber then we don't make a trade. If we regroup for 2017 we build around pitching Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 QUOTE (Big Hurtin @ Nov 28, 2016 -> 02:31 PM) or months..., or years... That would not be unequivocal. Looks like he gawn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Nov 28, 2016 -> 04:44 PM) This is exactly the way it should be. If we don't get the return we deserve for a player of Sale's caliber then we don't make a trade. If we regroup for 2017 we build around pitching If the return for Sale is not what we want then absolutely I keep him and move forward. You can still get a ton of value at the deadline or next offseason for him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisox05 Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 QUOTE (steveno89 @ Nov 28, 2016 -> 04:46 PM) If the return for Sale is not what we want then absolutely I keep him and move forward. You can still get a ton of value at the deadline or next offseason for him His opportunistic time to trade him is now. Waiting until next trade deadline is risky cause he could get hurt. Plus the more time he stays with the sox the less years of control a teams is getting in him. Also next offseason is a big one for free agents expecially pitching wise. Hes the best there is now on the market whether its free agency or trading. Someone will pony up cause not to many pitchers of his level are available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Nov 28, 2016 -> 04:52 PM) His opportunistic time to trade him is now. Waiting until next trade deadline is risky cause he could get hurt. Plus the more time he stays with the sox the less years of control a teams is getting in him. Also next offseason is a big one for free agents expecially pitching wise. Hes the best there is now on the market whether its free agency or trading. Someone will pony up cause not to many pitchers of his level are available. I think he probably will get traded within the next few weeks, but I would put it at a 65% chance he gets traded, 35% chance he stays Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 QUOTE (steveno89 @ Nov 28, 2016 -> 02:57 PM) I think he probably will get traded within the next few weeks, but I would put it at a 65% chance he gets traded, 35% chance he stays Those are the exact odds of this poll: http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=101153 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 28, 2016 -> 01:49 PM) Why would the CBA hold up a Sale trade? The only issue IMO is the luxury tax, and he doesn't make $30 million a year. Isn't one of the issues the elimination of draft pick compensation for unrestricted free agents ? If the Sox trade Sale or anyone else that the acquiring team has for a full season the current CBA says that teams is entitled to a draft pick when the player turns down a qualifying offer and chooses unrestricted free agency. So wouldn't this affect the trade value of Sale , Quintana, Eaton and possibly Frazier if the acquiring team doesn't get a draft pick when those player elect unrestricted free agency after spending a season or more with the teams they are traded to. Basically doesn't it make those players worth slightly less if the team acquiring them doesn't have a draft pick to look forward to when they walk ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Nov 28, 2016 -> 10:19 PM) Isn't one of the issues the elimination of draft pick compensation for unrestricted free agents ? If the Sox trade Sale or anyone else that the acquiring team has for a full season the current CBA says that teams is entitled to a draft pick when the player turns down a qualifying offer and chooses unrestricted free agency. So wouldn't this affect the trade value of Sale , Quintana, Eaton and possibly Frazier if the acquiring team doesn't get a draft pick when those player elect unrestricted free agency after spending a season or more with the teams they are traded to. Basically doesn't it make those players worth slightly less if the team acquiring them doesn't have a draft pick to look forward to when they walk ? If that is a sticking point in a Sale deal, we have been wasting our time speculating about the Sox trading him. A draft pick in the 20s 3 years from now isn't going to move the needle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 Curious where Rabbit thinks Sale will go? Seems like the Dodgers are the favorite, but I like Houston because of Bregman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 28, 2016 -> 08:25 PM) If that is a sticking point in a Sale deal, we have been wasting our time speculating about the Sox trading him. A draft pick in the 20s 3 years from now isn't going to move the needle. Just saying you said the CBA wouldn't affect a Sale trade and clearly it makes him worth as I said slightly less. No on said anything about it being a sticking point neither you in your original post or me in my response to it.Draft picks are valued . It might be more important when talking about Frazier. Melky and Robertson probably don't get qualifying offers and wouldn't require a draft pick for signing them. As a GM everything little thing should matter . The more you get from a trade the better. Moving the needle as you say may not matter to you but a smart GM values it. Edited November 29, 2016 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Nov 28, 2016 -> 08:19 PM) Isn't one of the issues the elimination of draft pick compensation for unrestricted free agents ? If the Sox trade Sale or anyone else that the acquiring team has for a full season the current CBA says that teams is entitled to a draft pick when the player turns down a qualifying offer and chooses unrestricted free agency. So wouldn't this affect the trade value of Sale , Quintana, Eaton and possibly Frazier if the acquiring team doesn't get a draft pick when those player elect unrestricted free agency after spending a season or more with the teams they are traded to. Basically doesn't it make those players worth slightly less if the team acquiring them doesn't have a draft pick to look forward to when they walk ? By all reports the sticking point is more the negotiation as to how much value the removal of the compensation should bring (i.e,. what do the owners get for giving that up). Either way, the only thing expected to go away is the fact that the signing team would physically give away the pick. All reports indicate that the team that loses the players would still get a compensation pick (it just wouldn't be the other teams and instead would be a new pick granted...presumably a sandwich pick after the 1st round (or at least that is what I imagine). So in general, the actual loss of a pick should have minimal value. That said, I think more of the delay is more tied to the fact that until you have certainty over the CBA, there is just a lot of general hesitation to do much until the uncertainty is gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Nov 28, 2016 -> 10:54 PM) Just saying you said the CBA wouldn't affect a Sale trade and clearly it makes him worth as I said slightly less. No on said anything about it being a sticking point neither you in your original post or me in my response to it.Draft picks are valued . It might be more important when talking about Frazier. Melky and Robertson probably don't get qualifying offers and wouldn't require a draft pick for signing them. As a GM everything little thing should matter . The more you get from a trade the better. Moving the needle as you say may not matter to you but a smart GM values it. This would have been an issue with every player who has been traded in recent years who had a contract that ran past this agreement. Trades have been made. People think the Sox should have traded Sale by now, even at the deadline. This would have been an issue then too. Draft pick comp is not an issue right now in a Sale trade. Total reach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tray Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 The Sox have to try to get one of the untouchable young star position players, some how, some way. E.g., Trade Sale plus Frazier and Eaton to the Nats for Trea Turner plus prospects. , or trade Sale plus Frazier and Nate Jones to Boston for Benintendi and Moncada. or trade Sale plus package to Atlanta for Dansby Swanson plus prospects. The Sox will not blow this thing up completely. They have to come out of this with hope for the future in the minors plus a more exciting young team on the field. By the way, OT, I drove by Sox park yesterday and saw that G Rate sign facing toward the Ryan. Geezus krist...what were they thinking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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