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DirtySox

Legitimate chance of Sale trade to #Nationals per Rosenthal

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Sale is incredibly valuable and will be a big addition to any team.

 

But I would like us all to acknowledge that it is a huge risk to trade away 5s and 6s of your top prospect talent even if they don't make an impact like Sale because it:

- Means you have to pay top dollar for veteran talent (sox know this fails often)

- Means you have very little to supplement in case of injuries on your must-win-now teams

 

If Sox offered sale for same price as Chapman last year they could easily get it. These packages (giolito, robles, and much more) are huge by any standard. There's a reason we thought Sale was too valuable to trade, and that at some point the guaranteed 5 win starting pitcher still is not worth removing all of your cheap talent even if none of them turn out as stars.

 

Doesn't mean we shouldn't hold out for a turner, just saying those teams are not acting irrationally by not offering everything they have. There's also a reason why we are focusing on only a handful of teams that have multiple top 100 talents and multiple top 20 talents.

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QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 03:41 PM)
Apparently Hahn is addressing the media now?

 

He is according to the White Sox twitter. No quotes have come out yet though.

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QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 03:29 PM)
Yeah I feel bad for them though. Tough spot. They are gonna be crushed when it's Conforto who gets traded for a relief pitcher.

I've got just the relief pitcher the Mets need in mind...

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I'm sick of the prospect fear, everyone is absurdly risk-averse. Of course Robles and Gioloto could bust. But you're going to get much more in addition to those guys. Maybe even some ML guys like Ross.

 

The Nationals shouldn't give up Turner. If they do, it would be Turner plus a few lesser guys. The overall package would be light years smaller.

 

And, even ML guys bust. Gordon Beckham would have looked pretty similar to Turner in his rookie season. For all we know Sale's arm could give out.

 

The bottom line is this:

1) Chris Sale is gone in 3 years, and we aren't competing this year unless we somehow catch lightning in a bottle.

2) Our roster is painfully thin at a bunch of different positions. One impact player won't change that.

3) If we have to take too much pitching in a deal, so be it. You can turn that into position talent.

4) Would you trade Tim Anderson, plus 4-5 top prospects for an ace? Because that's basically what you're asking from the Nationals.

 

Can we please stop this fear of losing Chris Sale induced tunnel vision, and look at the bigger picture? A large enough package of promising players doesn't need that one headliner to make sense.

 

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QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 03:14 PM)
At the time it would have been very difficult to not select Rodon and watch the Cubs select him right after you.

 

He was the right pick at the time and still can prove to be a quality starter

 

At the time the ONLY reason you don't pick Carlos Rodon was because you weren't sure he would sign with you. Also at the time the Schwarber pick was by far the biggest headscratcher of the draft and was being spun more on cost savings for overslot signings later in the draft, than it was for actual Kyle Schwarber.

 

Even today Rodon has the ceiling to be a workhorse type of ace from the left side. Schwarber can't handle a real position as of today, though he looks to have superstar homer potential.

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QUOTE (NCsoxfan @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 03:27 PM)
Fine to have that view. IMO, not fine to think Rodon is a disappointment or a bust like some other posters are implying.

 

The crazy thing is that it isn't that hard to closer your eyes and imagine the Sox taking the slow approach and Rodon being rated as the top prospect in all of baseball as he destroys AA hitters.

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QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 03:43 PM)
I've got just the relief pitcher the Mets need in mind...

 

I'm gonna guess they save that bullet for Wade Davis, doubt they pull it for Robertson. Maybe Jones.

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There's was speculation out of the draft room in 2014 that the Sox were considering taking Turner above Rodon. They've coveted him for a long time.

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QUOTE (hi8is @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 03:53 PM)
There's was speculation out of the draft room in 2014 that the Sox were considering taking Turner above Rodon. They've coveted him for a long time.

 

We keep hearing that about Benintendi, Turner, etc. If that's the case, they really should have made their moves for these guys sooner.

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QUOTE (bighurt574 @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 03:59 PM)
We keep hearing that about Benintendi, Turner, etc. If that's the case, they really should have made their moves for these guys sooner.

 

Benintendi was gone when the Sox drafted in 15. Turner would have been a major reach for them in 14 - plus, Rodon looks just fine.

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QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 04:02 PM)
Benintendi was gone when the Sox drafted in 15. Turner would have been a major reach for them in 14 - plus, Rodon looks just fine.

 

He's talking about trading for them.

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QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 04:02 PM)
He's talking about trading for them.

 

Ahhh, ya, can't argue there.

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QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 02:02 PM)
Benintendi was gone when the Sox drafted in 15. Turner would have been a major reach for them in 14 - plus, Rodon looks just fine.

Rumor was they would have taken Beni in 2015 if Boston hadn't selected him the pick before we grabbed Fulmer. Tuner was being considered against Rodon with signability concerns being that Boras was his agent. That's all I remember from draft day round one of each of those respective years.

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QUOTE (raBBit @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 04:40 PM)
Yup.

 

When Laumann spoke at SoxFest prior to the 2014 draft he spoke about two players the team really coveted and a tier of 8 players that were in consideration. He basically said, without saying his name, Rodon wouldn't get to them and Turner could be a game changer at the top of the lineup.

 

I hate to be that guy again, but do you have any nuggets on anyone else that we haven't heard about today (Frazier, Robertson, Jennings, etc.)?

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QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 04:44 PM)
I hate to be that guy again, but do you have any nuggets on anyone else that we haven't heard about today (Frazier, Robertson, Jennings, etc.)?

 

The Sale domino needs to fall or not fall before they make decisions on other pieces it looks like

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QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 05:53 PM)
Ton of Hahn quotes on Twitter. Says he won't compromise for Sale

 

 

Nor should he. If the Sale deal is completed, expect to be thrilled. IMO

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QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 04:53 PM)
Ton of Hahn quotes on Twitter. Says he won't compromise for Sale

Good for him hope he sticks too it.

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QUOTE (Username @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 03:45 PM)
I'm sick of the prospect fear, everyone is absurdly risk-averse. Of course Robles and Gioloto could bust. But you're going to get much more in addition to those guys. Maybe even some ML guys like Ross.

 

The Nationals shouldn't give up Turner. If they do, it would be Turner plus a few lesser guys. The overall package would be light years smaller.

 

And, even ML guys bust. Gordon Beckham would have looked pretty similar to Turner in his rookie season. For all we know Sale's arm could give out.

 

The bottom line is this:

1) Chris Sale is gone in 3 years, and we aren't competing this year unless we somehow catch lightning in a bottle.

2) Our roster is painfully thin at a bunch of different positions. One impact player won't change that.

3) If we have to take too much pitching in a deal, so be it. You can turn that into position talent.

4) Would you trade Tim Anderson, plus 4-5 top prospects for an ace? Because that's basically what you're asking from the Nationals.

 

Can we please stop this fear of losing Chris Sale induced tunnel vision, and look at the bigger picture? A large enough package of promising players doesn't need that one headliner to make sense.

 

We're talking about the White Sox. An organization whose last best home-grown position player has been Joe Crede. The organization is inept when it comes to developing hitters. Even Tim Anderson with how well he did last year has a massive issue with plate discipline that will more than likely cause him some headaches next year once teams figure out how to pitch to him. They need a can't miss position player. The fans know it and the front office knows it. I'm not saying Gioloto or Robles aren't great returns, but if the Shelby Miller's and Jeff Samardzija's of the world bring back Swanson and Russell, then it's not insane for the current asking price of Sale. We've never seen a pitcher of his caliber become available like this with his current contract.

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QUOTE (CWSpalehoseCWS @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 06:12 PM)
We're talking about the White Sox. An organization whose last best home-grown position player has been Joe Crede. The organization is inept when it comes to developing hitters. Even Tim Anderson with how well he did last year has a massive issue with plate discipline that will more than likely cause him some headaches next year once teams figure out how to pitch to him. They need a can't miss position player. The fans know it and the front office knows it. I'm not saying Gioloto or Robles aren't great returns, but if the Shelby Miller's and Jeff Samardzija's of the world bring back Swanson and Russell, then it's not insane for the current asking price of Sale. We've never seen a pitcher of his caliber become available like this with his current contract.

Exactly, and everyone knows it. It would be a public relations nightmare for the Sox to come back with a return on a trade for Chris Sale that paled in comparison to the returns for those two particular pitchers. So much so that I think it automatically disqualifies you from contention for obtaining the services of Mr. Sale is you continue to insist on this "untouchable" business. If Bregman, Turner, and any of the others are untouchable, then so is Chris Sale.

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QUOTE (CWSpalehoseCWS @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 07:12 PM)
We're talking about the White Sox. An organization whose last best home-grown position player has been Joe Crede. The organization is inept when it comes to developing hitters. Even Tim Anderson with how well he did last year has a massive issue with plate discipline that will more than likely cause him some headaches next year once teams figure out how to pitch to him. They need a can't miss position player. The fans know it and the front office knows it. I'm not saying Gioloto or Robles aren't great returns, but if the Shelby Miller's and Jeff Samardzija's of the world bring back Swanson and Russell, then it's not insane for the current asking price of Sale. We've never seen a pitcher of his caliber become available like this with his current contract.

 

Well said. 100% agree. It's MLB ready 3-4 WAR stud (with room for superstar growth) or bust. Sox can't develop hitting prospects, we need to get someone that's already MLB established.

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QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 04:02 PM)
He's talking about trading for them.

 

Right. It goes back to targeting the right guys in trades before they hit the majors.

 

Granted, that didn't leave a bunch of time for Turner or Benintendi, who were always hyped, and we may not have been ready to rebuild this time last year.

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How would you guys feel about a package that had De Leon and Bellinger back with no Urius? I would actually prefer that over Robles and Giolito. Especially since the Dodgers could throw in depth sweeteners at the lower levels. I am know most think the Dodgers are done with SP but I think De Leon gets moved this offseason.

 

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